Little bit of a rant here, but I'm curious what experience other states are having with their state's declining turkey numbers?
I'm kinda on the fence with dwindling turkey populations. I think we are just in the middle of an extended dip that should rebound, but I honestly don't think the Arkansas Game & Fish (AGFC) is doing anything to speed this process up.
The AGFC just started a Turkey Stamp Program that is optional. They gave a general idea of how the money will be used: " If we sell out, the stamp should generate between $140,000 and $150,000 after expenses to put toward added turkey habitat work in Arkansas," said Jeremy Wood, Turkey Program Coordinator for the AGFC. "We hope to couple this money with [National Wild Turkey Federation] Superfund grants to really help improve turkey habitat on public land."
When I requested a break down of how the funds generated will be spent beyond that EXTREMELY general statement, I heard nothing but crickets.
I will be sending an email to each commissioner with the AGFC with the same request, but if the past has told me anything about that (I've sent 5 emails over the years with minimal responses and very general responses).
Is anyone else having issues?
They ignore the real problems that they know they can't fix and try to fix the secondary issues.
Our state Mo.is clear cutting all the forest and fining us 5000 if we shoot a pig thats how much m.d.c. is worried about our turkey population which just keeps getting smaller every year
Here in NE Texas, NWTF is releasing eastern birds to rebuild our population. They are doingg super stockings...80 birds per stocking. They have released several groups lately.
In KY they did an online survey we never heard the results of and if you ask anyone at FW about the decline in birds they'll either feed you some standard line about a bad hatch in that area or look at you like you have a third eye and haven't heard of this thing called a turkey before. If this were deer or elk they'd be in crisis mode. Birds and small game just don't matter much because they aren't revenue generators like the animals sporting antlers.
Southeast Missouri once had a healthy turkey population. Now they are very thin and continue to dwindle. As previously stated timber harvest and hogs are having a negative impact. Another issue in the particular areas I hunt are poaching. I've talked to many game wardens on numerous occasions and they tell me they can only do so much.
If MDC is like other areas of our state government then we are in trouble. I'm familiar with other areas of state government and seen a bunch of corruption. I'm not sure what the numbers are like north as I try to avoid that part of the state. If the numbers are good around Cole county I doubt anything will be done to help the rest of the state.
Gamblinman were are they getting those eastern birds, most of the eastern states I know of are struggling to hold on to there on population?
Quote from: 3bailey3 on February 22, 2020, 10:47:16 PM
Gamblinman were are they getting those eastern birds, most of the eastern states I know of are struggling to hold on to there on population?
I know that they got some from North Carolina a year or 2 ago.
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Quote from: Kylongspur88 on February 22, 2020, 10:45:17 PM
In KY they did an online survey we never heard the results of and if you ask anyone at FW about the decline in birds they'll either feed you some standard line about a bad hatch in that area or look at you like you have a third eye and haven't heard of this thing called a turkey before. If this were deer or elk they'd be in crisis mode. Birds and small game just don't matter much because they aren't revenue generators like the animals sporting antlers.
Forgot about the elk, MDC seems very concerned about them. A little herd that nobody can hunt. If they do have a season I can only imagine how the tag distribution will go.
If I want to see or hunt an elk I'll go to Idaho or Wyoming.
I know Ms. shipped some off back in the day, we need them back!
Oh yeah its all about the elk we are going to have a season $10 a chance for a tag 50 tags total are they serious
The poaching might not be so bad this year they are putting more law in the woods afraid someone might take a crack at a pig
Louisiana seems to just be setting back and watching our population decline. A few years ago they moved our season opener back a week to the first Saturday in April, not sure how that was supposed to help anything. They did do some turkey nesting habit improvement work a few years ago in a place on a local WMA (or at least they put signs up by the parking area). But it was somewhere that a turkey hasn't set foot in ten years. Seems to me some local input from some guys that really know the turkeys would be a lot more beneficial, instead to just wasting time and money.
As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?
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Quote from: 3bailey3 on February 22, 2020, 10:47:16 PM
Gamblinman were are they getting those eastern birds, most of the eastern states I know of are struggling to hold on to there on population?
from MS and VA are the 2 I know of.
The state of Ms is doing squat. Biggest problem across the nation is habitat management in my opinion. They want to chop down every hardwood tree and get it out of the way to plant quick growing pines. All about the dollar. I lease a timber companies land and they will not even allow controlled burning. They scalp the property , replant with pine and wont even control burn. In a few years it becomes a impenetrable jungle. Creates fine habitat for all kinds of predators and people around here do not trap anymore. Our conservation here is a joke. What does the NWTF do? Offer more youth hunts and seminars , then have more banquets to replenish funds for the executives to maintain their lavish lifestyles. Makes my blood boil.
Sounds like mo. M.D.C. and N.W.T.F. both used to be great all they care about inow is the $$$
Louisiana moved the season back another week. East Texas is going on a re stocking spree with easterns they call super stocking
Here in WI they have replaced our DNR leaders by governor appointed positions, we no longer have the experts in wildlife management at the helm. These new "leaders" in most cases are not hunters, not wildlife educated and are easily swayed by public opinion (not hunters, but the non-hunting public) and instead of using sound wildlife management practices they come up with some new "rules" that make no sense at all... So the latest is the "number of Gun Deer license sales are down", their fix is to have bowhunters buy a gun license to hunt in the month of November with your bow, yup I'd buy my bow license to hunt Oct and Dec. but if I want to hunt Nov. I need a gun license to bow hunt... They don't look at the real reason for the decline in sales, they don't look for the real issue and solution. This has not been set to law yet and is just a proposal, but they come with some "ideas". We used to have Spring Hearings where our DNR would listen to the public on topics, from spring hearings that would go to our Natural Resources Board and Wildlife Managers then a decision was made, now that decision is only a recommendation to these new appointed positions. Not a win for our State, Wildlife or Hunters.
MK M GOBL
Isn't it strange that we the end users and the ones who pay the bills for this resource have little or no voice in how it's managed.
FL hasn't done anything that I know of.
Quote from: Tom Threetoes on February 23, 2020, 08:29:40 AM
Isn't it strange that we the end users and the ones who pay the bills for this resource have little or no voice in how it's managed.
Yep. Its suppose to be that elected officials were suppose to work for the people but somewhere along the way the role switched. Once they get in office they feel they know whats best for you and serve themselves.
Quote from: James gang on February 22, 2020, 11:17:47 PM
The poaching might not be so bad this year they are putting more law in the woods afraid someone might take a crack at a pig
In Missouri, it is illegal to shoot a feral pig? What is the logic behind that regulation?
In SC, they have changed the limit from 5 to 3. Changed the season dates to a later opener in both zones. Made it illegal to kill more than 1 a day. You can now only kill 1 in the first 10 days of the season. And they started charging for turkey tags.
I haven't heard anyone talking about how they liked the changes yet.
West Virginia hasn't changed. They don't open the season until most hens are on the nest. It seems late but it keeps the population steady. Been told, the state doesn't care if we kill turkeys, their job is to make sure we have turkeys to hunt.
Illinois has outlawed shooting feral hogs as well, there are a few pockets of hogs in the state, no idea on that logic?
As far as turkey they do nothing, Pike county for example has a huge honey suckle issue, if you look at woods loaded with that garbage there is no where for a hen to nest!
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It`s a tiny and relatively insignificant thing, but as individual hunters on our property we`ve limited ourselves to one bird per season. Only two of the four of us really hunt the 400 acres after the opening weekend. Personally, I`m going to try to be selective this year and will let birds I think are younger two year olds walk. I`ve not killed that many birds, but I`ve come to just enjoy the whole process and the woods more. Getting old!
Quote from: Turkeytider on February 23, 2020, 09:09:32 AM
It`s a tiny and relatively insignificant thing, but as individual hunters on our property we`ve limited ourselves to one bird per season. Only two of the four of us really hunt the 400 acres after the opening weekend. Personally, I`m going to try to be selective this year and will let birds I think are younger two year olds walk. I`ve not killed that many birds, but I`ve come to just enjoy the whole process and the woods more. Getting old!
That is not a insignificant thing at all. Good for you! I can't understand hunters complaining about declines in turkey numbers on one hand and then turning around and complaining about decreases in bag limits and shortening (or modifying) seasons.
I have said this before and I will say it again. Being a good turkey hunter does not mean you have to shoot every gobbler you can. Being a great turkey hunter includes being a conservationist, as well. You want to hear more gobblers in the woods each spring? Try leaving more of them out there.
That is not to say that factors such as habitat and predation problems don't need to be addressed, they do,...but when turkey numbers are declining, hunters have got to adjust their attitudes to help.
Just be glad y'all don't live in LA. Our population is disappearing quick and there's nothing happening to help. The hog population is out of control, they are trapping birds on some public land and moving them who knows where. It's to the point where you have to find and hunt 1 bird for the season. Along with all the other hunters. Theres one WMA that once had a very strong population just a few years ago. Haven't heard a gobble on it in the last 2 years.
Quote from: dirtnap on February 23, 2020, 09:00:42 AM
Quote from: James gang on February 22, 2020, 11:17:47 PM
The poaching might not be so bad this year they are putting more law in the woods afraid someone might take a crack at a pig
In Missouri, it is illegal to shoot a feral pig? What is the logic behind that regulation?
In SC, they have changed the limit from 5 to 3. Changed the season dates to a later opener in both zones. Made it illegal to kill more than 1 a day. You can now only kill 1 in the first 10 days of the season. And they started charging for turkey tags.
I haven't heard anyone talking about how they liked the changes yet.
Yes sir it is. They say hunters scatter the herds of pigs but the mdc is doing the same thing. Only problem is they're not killing the numbers hunters did. It's probably the stupidest thing mdc has done in a long time. I guess government bullets are different than our bullets. They know the population is down on turkeys but they still are raping the land of every tree they can get their paws on!! I think all they're worried about is their precious elk! At the rate their going the hogs are gonna completely take over. Glad I got to hunt Mo back when there were a lot of birds. But $5000 for killing an evasive animal just because they can't is absolutely ridiculous!!
Luckily we can shoot any pig we see, no limit. Only problem is we can only shoot them on WMAs during an open hunting season. Outside that can kill them year round on private property. Still doesn't make a dent. I know of a guy that killed 150 last year on his lease and theres more every year.
Quote from: Dtrkyman on February 23, 2020, 09:09:05 AM
Illinois has outlawed shooting feral hogs as well, there are a few pockets of hogs in the state, no idea on that logic?
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Not sure if I heard it or read it somewhere or what that there has been some studies, to show depends on what pig is killed or removed from the group they disperse to new areas making it harder to get them all. So rather then killing that single pig they would rather try trapping the entire group or family at one time. But that cost a lot of money so nothing happening. And the problem gets bigger.
The same was said in norther states with problem with wolves, if you remove the dominant wolf the pack will break up. I though it was stories just made up to save the single animals from being shot or removed. In 2011 I trapped (durning MN legal hunting, trapping season) A large male wolf from a pack of elven. That hourse ranch had seen that pack every week before then, but after that no more. It was a large male maybe the alfa male so in the case of wolves maybe true.
Quote from: Gentry on February 22, 2020, 11:32:32 PM
As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?
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Definitely an increase in 'traveling' turkey hunters and it will continue to increase due to social media.
Another thing to keep in mind is how 'effective' turkey hunters are now days. You have folks taking 70 yards shots with TSS (killing and wounding turkey that otherwise would have lived), you have folks deer hunting them out of ground blinds with full strut decoys (which is much more effective at taking out those dominant, henned up early season toms that otherwise would have been dang near unkillable until later in the season - thus potentially disrupting the breeding cycle for a few days), you have 'the reapers' taking out field birds that would have been tough back in the day, you have mapping apps like OnX, and the list goes on. All this boils down to we are as efficient at killing turkey as ever before. And more folks are traveling out of state to kill them.
A lot of experts theorize that removing the dominant tom early season can disrupt the breeding cycle for a few days. No research is conclusive yet, but a lot of biologist are looking into this issue. In some bird species females have a 'preferred male' they chose to breed with. I believe Kenny Morgan actually talks about it in one of his books. What happens if there is a 'preferred male' and he keeps getting his head rolled every few days on heavily hunted public land? This could especially be a problem in areas with early openers and in areas without a lot of turkey.
The increase in traveling turkey hunters has DEFINITELY hurt hunt QUALITY on public lands. Kansas was the first poster child of this (not considering their recent turkey decline, just hunt quality back in the late 2000-late 2010 years). Seems Chadron, Nebraska has went the same way. Once folks jump on the bandwagon and flock to these places, I start heading to new places. Once again, this trend will continue to get worse thanks to social media.
Some folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing that.
Turkey hunters are quick to place the blame elsewhere. They want to fill their limit in every state they travel to and expect mother nature to replenish all the birds, and maybe even add more!, without putting in any management effort themselves. Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt.
I've also witnessed a lot of ignorance in this thread in regards to wildlife management. It'd be worthwhile for a few of you to study up more on that topic before you start spouting off blame and assumptions.
Quote from: dirtnap on February 23, 2020, 09:00:42 AM
Quote from: James gang on February 22, 2020, 11:17:47 PM
The poaching might not be so bad this year they are putting more law in the woods afraid someone might take a crack at a pig
In Missouri, it is illegal to shoot a feral pig? What is the logic behind that regulation?
In SC, they have changed the limit from 5 to 3. Changed the season dates to a later opener in both zones. Made it illegal to kill more than 1 a day. You can now only kill 1 in the first 10 days of the season. And they started charging for turkey tags.
I haven't heard anyone talking about how they liked the changes yet.
What you were not told is on public land it is illegal to hunt hogs. The whole group will move off under pressure making them harder to kill. MDC is trapping hogs and doing it successfully. Another reason to make it illegal is because people are releasing them into national forest land to have something to hunt in the off season.
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As already stated Louisiana moved the season opener from mid March to first week in April. The reason for the move was that most of the kill numbers were in the first week, with a March opener. Most of the Gobblers were dead before the breeding was finished. Now with the 2-3 week delay in opener hopefully more hens will breed before the hunting starts. There were several studies done on nest start dates and Gobbler harvest dates. Moving the opener is probably the cheapest and least amount of effort possible but it is better than nothing. For those that don't understand the why I'd suggest reading up on Turkey nesting in Louisiana.
Even though the opener of any season usually has the highest kill numbers, the April opener drastically lowered La kill numbers. No more strutter decoys and tents. By the time the season opens the Gobblers have all the hens collected up and are less likely to want to fight your funky chicken decoy lol. Less Gobbling ,because they don't have too, decoys less effective. Makes the part timers give up which is a win any way you look at it.
Quote from: James gang on February 22, 2020, 11:11:16 PM
Oh yeah its all about the elk we are going to have a season $10 a chance for a tag 50 tags total are they serious
Very serious.
With the amounts of deer hunters in MO. Imagine how much money they are going to bring in per tag.
They'll be dancing around and singing "We are in the money" "We are in the money".
I hunt ~7k acres of well managed public in IL. They have said for years that the population is ~200 birds, ~30 birds per 1k acres. I've seen this in other public areas of the state too. ~50 birds a year are killed on this ground,Spring and Fall. IL would not be a choice for me,if I was a NR. But pressure is spread out with a draw system. With habitat being lost every day and nobody trapping any more, spreading out pressure and habitat management seems to be keys. The good 'ol days may be gone but it's still a heck of a lot better than when I first started hunting. IL didn't have a Spring season where I hunted ,only Fall archery turkey, which I still favor. I hunted MO in the Spring. I blame a lot of the problem on deer hunting. The boom has caused leasing and leasing for outfitters. How many of us can knock a door and get permission to small game hunt and trap like we did when we were kids?
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I know and seen first hand some birds last year were trapped in Brunswick County NC at the Ocean Isle airport and were reloacted in TX.
Quote from: Turkeytider on February 23, 2020, 09:09:32 AM
It`s a tiny and relatively insignificant thing, but as individual hunters on our property we`ve limited ourselves to one bird per season. Only two of the four of us really hunt the 400 acres after the opening weekend. Personally, I`m going to try to be selective this year and will let birds I think are younger two year olds walk. I`ve not killed that many birds, but I`ve come to just enjoy the whole process and the woods more. Getting old!
We had done the same thing too. Even only let the youngsters shoot for a year or two on ground in north Missouri.
A couple of us traveled down south Missouri to a more gobbler rich environment. Hogs down there that we couldn't shoot , MDC had cage traps by the river and said not to scatter the hogs as it would make their work harder to locate them and set the cages back up.
Haven't seen any hog in north Missouri. Coons are thick everywhere and I think they are the main problem.
I do know lately I have seen a heck of a lot more of them than turkeys.
Thought I was calling the turkeys. Getting old too.
Quote from: Flounder on February 23, 2020, 12:33:15 PM
I know and seen first hand some birds last year were trapped in Brunswick County NC at the Ocean Isle airport and were reloacted in TX.
Quote from: Gamblinman on February 22, 2020, 10:39:05 PM
Here in NE Texas, NWTF is releasing eastern birds to rebuild our population. They are doingg super stockings...80 birds per stocking. They have released several groups lately.
There are plenty of places where "too many turkeys" is a problem. Aggressive trap and transplant programs,...like we saw in the 70's and 80's,...are one piece of the puzzle for restoring wild turkey numbers in many of the locations where they are now struggling. Throwing birds at the issue without corresponding analysis of the problems causing the declines,...and then implementing programs to address those problems,...is not a solution,...unless the plan is to in essence move to a "put and take" management strategy akin to stocking trout.
The solution to declining turkey populations involves a combination of identifying what the culprits are, doing what is possible to resolve those issues, and then supplementing turkey numbers through transplantation to speed up the recovery process.
The stocking efforts in east Texas,...and I am assuming corresponding research to identify the issues and implement management strategies to overcome those issues,...is exactly what should be happening everywhere we have problems. ...And what should also be happening is that NWTF members should be pressuring their leadership to "get with the program" and using the NWTF influence, numbers, and MONEY to address the problems.
Perhaps that is already happening around the country. I don't know for sure. If it is happening, it is a lot less apparent than it was forty years ago. Bottom line is that there are solutions to restoring strong turkey populations where they have declined. It just takes the focus of wildlife managers and sportsmen who care to get it done.
Quote from: dirtnap on February 23, 2020, 09:00:42 AM
Quote from: James gang on February 22, 2020, 11:17:47 PM
The poaching might not be so bad this year they are putting more law in the woods afraid someone might take a crack at a pig
In Missouri, it is illegal to shoot a feral pig? What is the logic behind that regulation?
In SC, they have changed the limit from 5 to 3. Changed the season dates to a later opener in both zones. Made it illegal to kill more than 1 a day. You can now only kill 1 in the first 10 days of the season. And they started charging for turkey tags.
I haven't heard anyone talking about how they liked the changes yet.
I like the changes. For the past several years we have had a longer season beginning in
mid March and going through the first week of May. In the area of the state I hunt, Game Zone 2, we have killed more birds overall and the majority were killed the first week of the season during the peek of mating activity. That is the reason for the season not beginning until April 1st this year, like it has in the past as well as the reason for the one bird limit the first 10 days of the season. If we want the population to increase, then we have to give the gobblers time to mate undisturbed for at least part of the peak mating period. Residents must pay $5.00 for their 3 tags and out of state hunters can purchase 2 tags for $100.00. Tags have always been free until this year. According to what I've been told, funds collected from turkey tag sales are to go towards research regarding the depletion of the turkey population in the state. SC has the same problem as other states when it comes to the timber companies. They cut all the hardwood and mature pine they can and replace it all with pines - the faster growing $ tree. It's all about the $'s. As far as the hogs are concerned, we've got plenty of them and we kill and trap as many as we can but it's a never ending battle that I'm not sure if we will ever win. We have had to stop planting chufa on one of our tracks due to the hogs. We plant it, the hogs root it up before the turkey ever get an opportunity to eat it. Waste of time and money. In conclusion, I agree with the changes in our turkey hunting regulations and appreciate both SCDNR and the SC State Legislature for at least making an attempt to do something about this issue in our state.
Quote from: Gooserbat on February 22, 2020, 09:40:00 PM
They ignore the real problems that they know they can't fix and try to fix the secondary issues.
What's the secondary?? Raises for all and/or reintroduction of bobcats?
People are really upset with m.d.c. there is a growing group of mo residents that are not buying tags for anything until things change. There are people hanging dead hogs from signs that say feral hog hunting is illegal.There are lots of pics and comments on facebook shoot you can kill 5-10 turkeys for 5000 or one pig.We need a hunter running things that cares about our native species instead of elk pigs and making more $$$
Hard too believe a state would actually protect feral hogs? La can ship a couple thousand a month if anyone is interested. Hogs WILL get out of control in a matter of a few years then its to late to do anything.
Quote from: Rzrbac on February 22, 2020, 10:52:33 PM
Quote from: Kylongspur88 on February 22, 2020, 10:45:17 PM
In KY they did an online survey we never heard the results of and if you ask anyone at FW about the decline in birds they'll either feed you some standard line about a bad hatch in that area or look at you like you have a third eye and haven't heard of this thing called a turkey before. If this were deer or elk they'd be in crisis mode. Birds and small game just don't matter much because they aren't revenue generators like the animals sporting antlers.
Forgot about the elk, MDC seems very concerned about them. A little herd that nobody can hunt. If they do have a season I can only imagine how the tag distribution will go.
If I want to see or hunt an elk I'll go to Idaho or Wyoming.
Get ready for the circus. When KY got a huntable population everyone was excited but that all changes after a few years of seeing how the draw was run. Corruptions and dirty dealings set in quick. A quick Google search will give you days worth of reading. FW likes to advertise we have 10,000 elk now. I've heard guys who actually work in FW say that number is actually much higher yet they haven't changed up the draw system to allow more average folks get an opportunity at a tag or give preference points to residents etc...It's a crock IMO. But I guess that's what happens when your FW is run by a commission of political appointees with unchecked power and receives money from non discript foundations.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 23, 2020, 11:11:55 AM
Quote from: Gentry on February 22, 2020, 11:32:32 PM
As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Definitely an increase in 'traveling' turkey hunters and it will continue to increase due to social media.
Another thing to keep in mind is how 'effective' turkey hunters are now days. You have folks taking 70 yards shots with TSS (killing and wounding turkey that otherwise would have lived), you have folks deer hunting them out of ground blinds with full strut decoys (which is much more effective at taking out those dominant, henned up early season toms that otherwise would have been dang near unkillable until later in the season - thus potentially disrupting the breeding cycle for a few days), you have 'the reapers' taking out field birds that would have been tough back in the day, you have mapping apps like OnX, and the list goes on. All this boils down to we are as efficient at killing turkey as ever before. And more folks are traveling out of state to kill them.
A lot of experts theorize that removing the dominant tom early season can disrupt the breeding cycle for a few days. No research is conclusive yet, but a lot of biologist are looking into this issue. In some bird species females have a 'preferred male' they chose to breed with. I believe Kenny Morgan actually talks about it in one of his books. What happens if there is a 'preferred male' and he keeps getting his head rolled every few days on heavily hunted public land? This could especially be a problem in areas with early openers and in areas without a lot of turkey.
The increase in traveling turkey hunters has DEFINITELY hurt hunt QUALITY on public lands. Kansas was the first poster child of this (not considering their recent turkey decline, just hunt quality back in the late 2000-late 2010 years). Seems Chadron, Nebraska has went the same way. Once folks jump on the bandwagon and flock to these places, I start heading to new places. Once again, this trend will continue to get worse thanks to social media.
Some folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing that.
Turkey hunters are quick to place the blame elsewhere. They want to fill their limit in every state they travel to and expect mother nature to replenish all the birds, and maybe even add more!, without putting in any management effort themselves. Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt.
I've also witnessed a lot of ignorance in this thread in regards to wildlife management. It'd be worthwhile for a few of you to study up more on that topic before you start spouting off blame and assumptions.
You mean actually show some self restraint and keep an eye towards the future of our wildlife instead of killing everything legally possible? Your not asking for much are ya? It's much easier to just kill everything legally possible and then complain that it's the wildlife officials fault for letting us.
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 23, 2020, 11:11:55 AM
Quote from: Gentry on February 22, 2020, 11:32:32 PM
As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Definitely an increase in 'traveling' turkey hunters and it will continue to increase due to social media.
Another thing to keep in mind is how 'effective' turkey hunters are now days. You have folks taking 70 yards shots with TSS (killing and wounding turkey that otherwise would have lived), you have folks deer hunting them out of ground blinds with full strut decoys (which is much more effective at taking out those dominant, henned up early season toms that otherwise would have been dang near unkillable until later in the season - thus potentially disrupting the breeding cycle for a few days), you have 'the reapers' taking out field birds that would have been tough back in the day, you have mapping apps like OnX, and the list goes on. All this boils down to we are as efficient at killing turkey as ever before. And more folks are traveling out of state to kill them.
A lot of experts theorize that removing the dominant tom early season can disrupt the breeding cycle for a few days. No research is conclusive yet, but a lot of biologist are looking into this issue. In some bird species females have a 'preferred male' they chose to breed with. I believe Kenny Morgan actually talks about it in one of his books. What happens if there is a 'preferred male' and he keeps getting his head rolled every few days on heavily hunted public land? This could especially be a problem in areas with early openers and in areas without a lot of turkey.
The increase in traveling turkey hunters has DEFINITELY hurt hunt QUALITY on public lands. Kansas was the first poster child of this (not considering their recent turkey decline, just hunt quality back in the late 2000-late 2010 years). Seems Chadron, Nebraska has went the same way. Once folks jump on the bandwagon and flock to these places, I start heading to new places. Once again, this trend will continue to get worse thanks to social media.
Some folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing that.
Turkey hunters are quick to place the blame elsewhere. They want to fill their limit in every state they travel to and expect mother nature to replenish all the birds, and maybe even add more!, without putting in any management effort themselves. Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt.
I've also witnessed a lot of ignorance in this thread in regards to wildlife management. It'd be worthwhile for a few of you to study up more on that topic before you start spouting off blame and assumptions.
I agree. And anyone that has been hunting turkeys for very long has seen this to be true.
Quote from: LaLongbeard on February 23, 2020, 05:26:04 PM
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 23, 2020, 11:11:55 AM
Quote from: Gentry on February 22, 2020, 11:32:32 PM
As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Definitely an increase in 'traveling' turkey hunters and it will continue to increase due to social media.
Another thing to keep in mind is how 'effective' turkey hunters are now days. You have folks taking 70 yards shots with TSS (killing and wounding turkey that otherwise would have lived), you have folks deer hunting them out of ground blinds with full strut decoys (which is much more effective at taking out those dominant, henned up early season toms that otherwise would have been dang near unkillable until later in the season - thus potentially disrupting the breeding cycle for a few days), you have 'the reapers' taking out field birds that would have been tough back in the day, you have mapping apps like OnX, and the list goes on. All this boils down to we are as efficient at killing turkey as ever before. And more folks are traveling out of state to kill them.
A lot of experts theorize that removing the dominant tom early season can disrupt the breeding cycle for a few days. No research is conclusive yet, but a lot of biologist are looking into this issue. In some bird species females have a 'preferred male' they chose to breed with. I believe Kenny Morgan actually talks about it in one of his books. What happens if there is a 'preferred male' and he keeps getting his head rolled every few days on heavily hunted public land? This could especially be a problem in areas with early openers and in areas without a lot of turkey.
The increase in traveling turkey hunters has DEFINITELY hurt hunt QUALITY on public lands. Kansas was the first poster child of this (not considering their recent turkey decline, just hunt quality back in the late 2000-late 2010 years). Seems Chadron, Nebraska has went the same way. Once folks jump on the bandwagon and flock to these places, I start heading to new places. Once again, this trend will continue to get worse thanks to social media.
Some folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing that.
Turkey hunters are quick to place the blame elsewhere. They want to fill their limit in every state they travel to and expect mother nature to replenish all the birds, and maybe even add more!, without putting in any management effort themselves. Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt.
I've also witnessed a lot of ignorance in this thread in regards to wildlife management. It'd be worthwhile for a few of you to study up more on that topic before you start spouting off blame and assumptions.
I agree. And anyone that has been hunting turkeys for very long has seen this to be true.
So me going to South Dakota and spending over a thousand dollar plus to kill ONE turkey is destroying turkey hunting.
Not Herbicides or pesticides. Not invasive species like python or coyotes. Not the restoration of the depleted species like hawks, possum, skunks, raccoons. Not continued development of wildlife habitat. None of this has any impact on turkey hunting.
It is only the couple hundred/thousand of out of state hunters. Who are too ignorant, lazy or stupid to contribute to turkey hunting conservation. Because obviously if we're out of state hunters we don't care or couldn't possibly have any ability or desire to accomplish this. This is the destruction of turkey hunting.
Well you are in luck, Bernie Sanders has a special place for you in his campaign.
Ok as far as mdc being so successful trapping they have had traps for several months in our neck of the woods.i have talked to some of them on several occasions they quit baiting the traps and left them tripped. They said they had caught the majority of the pigs in the area.A group of 6 men with dogs killed 17 (3 pregnant) in same spot in 1.5 days.mdcs stance on hogs is a joke.
Why not put a bounty on hogs and a huge fine for turning them loose.There would be enough honest hunters in the woods to keep them from being turned loose maybe have a huge reward for turning them in( let there fine pay the reward so mdc can keep there $$ there so worried about).Add up what they are spending on bait and manpower trapping ,shooting from the air how many bountys could that pay? They can feed those tractor trailer loads of corn everyone is talking about to the turkeys.
Quote from: Happy on February 23, 2020, 05:16:34 PM
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 23, 2020, 11:11:55 AM
Quote from: Gentry on February 22, 2020, 11:32:32 PM
As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Definitely an increase in 'traveling' turkey hunters and it will continue to increase due to social media.
Another thing to keep in mind is how 'effective' turkey hunters are now days. You have folks taking 70 yards shots with TSS (killing and wounding turkey that otherwise would have lived), you have folks deer hunting them out of ground blinds with full strut decoys (which is much more effective at taking out those dominant, henned up early season toms that otherwise would have been dang near unkillable until later in the season - thus potentially disrupting the breeding cycle for a few days), you have 'the reapers' taking out field birds that would have been tough back in the day, you have mapping apps like OnX, and the list goes on. All this boils down to we are as efficient at killing turkey as ever before. And more folks are traveling out of state to kill them.
A lot of experts theorize that removing the dominant tom early season can disrupt the breeding cycle for a few days. No research is conclusive yet, but a lot of biologist are looking into this issue. In some bird species females have a 'preferred male' they chose to breed with. I believe Kenny Morgan actually talks about it in one of his books. What happens if there is a 'preferred male' and he keeps getting his head rolled every few days on heavily hunted public land? This could especially be a problem in areas with early openers and in areas without a lot of turkey.
The increase in traveling turkey hunters has DEFINITELY hurt hunt QUALITY on public lands. Kansas was the first poster child of this (not considering their recent turkey decline, just hunt quality back in the late 2000-late 2010 years). Seems Chadron, Nebraska has went the same way. Once folks jump on the bandwagon and flock to these places, I start heading to new places. Once again, this trend will continue to get worse thanks to social media.
Some folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing that.
Turkey hunters are quick to place the blame elsewhere. They want to fill their limit in every state they travel to and expect mother nature to replenish all the birds, and maybe even add more!, without putting in any management effort themselves. Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt.
I've also witnessed a lot of ignorance in this thread in regards to wildlife management. It'd be worthwhile for a few of you to study up more on that topic before you start spouting off blame and assumptions.
You mean actually show some self restraint and keep an eye towards the future of our wildlife instead of killing everything legally possible? Your not asking for much are ya? It's much easier to just kill everything legally possible and then complain that it's the wildlife officials fault for letting us.
I was totally onboard when AR pushed out season back significantly about 8 years ago, but the reality is that it has had no affect on the population or hunter success.
This is my biggest gripe with the AGFC. The land that the do have used to have GREAT food plots, controlled burns, and GOOD timber management. Now, the food plots are rarely even mowed, burning has almost completely ceased, and tree huggers have almost brought select cutting to a stop due to ignorance.
Like a couple of others have mentioned, our commissioners are also appointed, therefore, their "expertise" is mostly limited. Most of them are simply deep pockets.
Now, for my solutions: A hard core attack on predators/feral pigs, creating a stream management zone LAW (right now its kinda optional), pour tons of money into school programs/education for timber and wildlife management, and finally, issue big grants to any colleges who will do nest surveys/poult surveys.
My biggest solution is the surveys. Right now our survey is a total joke. Game Officers just drive around and count what they see. Last year they asked the public to assist...which we all know how that turned out.
folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing
I will address this part. We already know its about the money as I stated it in my post above. We offer to control burn at our own expense and that would only be an improvement of their timber. NEWSFLASH You ever hear of influence? Yeah thats right NWTF has enough stroke that them along with the state can get things done. So yes they can put things back on track by working hand in hand. Also as far as habitat , since folks on here dont know anything about it and we need to read up on it , share your expert knowledge on the subject. I happen to have wildlife biologist in my family that I get my info from.
Alabama has moved the date now from March 15 to the 3rd weekend of March. Puts us coming in a bit later and giving the birds a opportunity to breed. Been a many of years I've been on the 15th and the turkeys still be grouped up. They've been doing it in select WMAs for a few years now and made it statewide this year. There are whisperings of the bag limit dropping from 5 to 3 in the future also. Both things I don't have any qualms with. Meanwhile the entire state is still in the process of being turned into a monoculture by timber companies and having nothing but pine trees on every square inch of land. Down in south AL it almost feels like finding the gold pot at the end of a rainbow would be easier than finding a good stand of hardwoods.
Quote from: 3bailey3 on February 22, 2020, 10:47:16 PM
Gamblinman were are they getting those eastern birds, most of the eastern states I know of are struggling to hold on to there on population?
Locally our first superstocking was of birds from OH.
Turns out they were nuisance birds from a town. Wild, yes but... The biologist told me two hen hit the ground and traveled 80 miles in a few days and went to an area that had zero birds.
That group didn't do so well so we got some more from elsewhere I think.
Mark twain national forest thought we all own it ( you know the tax payers) also thought the people in charge of it worked for us.I guess that shows what i know.They couldn't care less. The new ramrod for mdc is not a hunter and it sure shows more of a bird watcher nothing wrong with that but how many permits do they buy
Im just a dumb hillbilly but seems to me if they would make an effort to bring tukey numbers back up instead of worrying about elk or hogs
they could sell alot more of the high dollar out of state permits.
I know they sell plenty now but things go the way they have been why will they come to spot a yellow bellied sap sucker?
Quote from: Crghss on February 23, 2020, 08:13:22 PM
Quote from: LaLongbeard on February 23, 2020, 05:26:04 PM
Quote from: deerhunt1988 on February 23, 2020, 11:11:55 AM
Quote from: Gentry on February 22, 2020, 11:32:32 PM
As far as dwindling populations go, which seems to be the norm in a lot of states. Do y'all think the increased hunting pressure on turkeys has hunt the numbers? Or do you even think there is an increase of turkey hunters?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Definitely an increase in 'traveling' turkey hunters and it will continue to increase due to social media.
Another thing to keep in mind is how 'effective' turkey hunters are now days. You have folks taking 70 yards shots with TSS (killing and wounding turkey that otherwise would have lived), you have folks deer hunting them out of ground blinds with full strut decoys (which is much more effective at taking out those dominant, henned up early season toms that otherwise would have been dang near unkillable until later in the season - thus potentially disrupting the breeding cycle for a few days), you have 'the reapers' taking out field birds that would have been tough back in the day, you have mapping apps like OnX, and the list goes on. All this boils down to we are as efficient at killing turkey as ever before. And more folks are traveling out of state to kill them.
A lot of experts theorize that removing the dominant tom early season can disrupt the breeding cycle for a few days. No research is conclusive yet, but a lot of biologist are looking into this issue. In some bird species females have a 'preferred male' they chose to breed with. I believe Kenny Morgan actually talks about it in one of his books. What happens if there is a 'preferred male' and he keeps getting his head rolled every few days on heavily hunted public land? This could especially be a problem in areas with early openers and in areas without a lot of turkey.
The increase in traveling turkey hunters has DEFINITELY hurt hunt QUALITY on public lands. Kansas was the first poster child of this (not considering their recent turkey decline, just hunt quality back in the late 2000-late 2010 years). Seems Chadron, Nebraska has went the same way. Once folks jump on the bandwagon and flock to these places, I start heading to new places. Once again, this trend will continue to get worse thanks to social media.
Some folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing that.
Turkey hunters are quick to place the blame elsewhere. They want to fill their limit in every state they travel to and expect mother nature to replenish all the birds, and maybe even add more!, without putting in any management effort themselves. Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt.
I've also witnessed a lot of ignorance in this thread in regards to wildlife management. It'd be worthwhile for a few of you to study up more on that topic before you start spouting off blame and assumptions.
I agree. And anyone that has been hunting turkeys for very long has seen this to be true.
So me going to South Dakota and spending over a thousand dollar plus to kill ONE turkey is destroying turkey hunting.
Not Herbicides or pesticides. Not invasive species like python or coyotes. Not the restoration of the depleted species like hawks, possum, skunks, raccoons. Not continued development of wildlife habitat. None of this has any impact on turkey hunting.
It is only the couple hundred/thousand of out of state hunters. Who are too ignorant, lazy or stupid to contribute to turkey hunting conservation. Because obviously if we're out of state hunters we don't care or couldn't possibly have any ability or desire to accomplish this. This is the destruction of turkey hunting.
Well you are in luck, Bernie Sanders has a special place for you in his campaign.
Simmer down there buddy. I think you took my post a bit out of context and read WAY too much into it. I've been a traveling turkey hunter for quite a long time and hit half dozen or more states each spring.
I mentioned the influx of hunters to certain areas hurts hunt QUALITY. I even put it in all caps. I didn't say it was destroying turkey hunting. And I believe you missed this part: "Now this doesn't apply to all turkey hunters, but take a minute and think about how many you know that seriously get their hands dirty trying to help the turkey population where they hunt."
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 23, 2020, 09:10:37 PM
folks in this thread seem to think their state can control the management practices that happen on private industrial timberlands. NEWSFLASH: The timber companies are in it for the money. Not wildlife. And your state has hardly any means of fixing
I will address this part. We already know its about the money as I stated it in my post above. We offer to control burn at our own expense and that would only be an improvement of their timber. NEWSFLASH You ever hear of influence? Yeah thats right NWTF has enough stroke that them along with the state can get things done. So yes they can put things back on track by working hand in hand. Also as far as habitat , since folks on here dont know anything about it and we need to read up on it , share your expert knowledge on the subject. I happen to have wildlife biologist in my family that I get my info from.
The majority of private timber companies are going to be hesitant to let anyone burn their property, regardless of the "burner's" credentials. Liability. If you have been able to convince one to let ya'll burn, that is quite the accomplishment!
NWTF does help fund a lot of fire on public grounds. I even know of an instance where they've chipped in some funds to a cost-share program for private landowners to burn. Props to them for that!
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on February 23, 2020, 09:10:37 PM
I happen to have wildlife biologist in my family that I get my info from.
Well....It just so happens... ;)
[/sub]
Quote from: LaLongbeard on February 23, 2020, 12:10:06 PM
As already stated Louisiana moved the season opener from mid March to first week in April. The reason for the move was that most of the kill numbers were in the first week, with a March opener. Most of the Gobblers were dead before the breeding was finished. Now with the 2-3 week delay in opener hopefully more hens will breed before the hunting starts. There were several studies done on nest start dates and Gobbler harvest dates. Moving the opener is probably the cheapest and least amount of effort possible but it is better than nothing. For those that don't understand the why I'd suggest reading up on Turkey nesting in Louisiana.
Even though the opener of any season usually has the highest kill numbers, the April opener drastically lowered La kill numbers. No more strutter decoys and tents. By the time the season opens the Gobblers have all the hens collected up and are less likely to want to fight your funky chicken decoy lol. Less Gobbling ,because they don't have too, decoys less effective. Makes the part timers give up which is a win any way you look at it.
I get the logic behind it, I just think we are too far gone for quick easy fixes but time will tell and I hope it helps. But we have a lot of issues in Louisiana. Habitat is not good for the most part but so much land is owned by timber companies so not much we can do there, hog population is out of control and I really do think there is anything we can do to stop it (cant believe some states are protecting them). We have a big predator/nesting predator problem and that's something we can all help out with, wouldn't fix our problems but I think it sure would help if we (myself included) got serious about trapping and gave our turkeys some relief from egg eaters and coyotes
Quote from: Gamblinman on February 23, 2020, 12:12:28 AM
Quote from: 3bailey3 on February 22, 2020, 10:47:16 PM
Gamblinman were are they getting those eastern birds, most of the eastern states I know of are struggling to hold on to there on population?
from MS and VA are the 2 I know of.
they best be leaving the birds we have in va alone unless we are just overrun and I doubt that's the case
Quote from: Shady valley birds on February 24, 2020, 12:31:42 AM
Quote from: Gamblinman on February 23, 2020, 12:12:28 AM
Quote from: 3bailey3 on February 22, 2020, 10:47:16 PM
Gamblinman were are they getting those eastern birds, most of the eastern states I know of are struggling to hold on to there on population?
from MS and VA are the 2 I know of.
they best be leaving the birds we have in va alone unless we are just overrun and I doubt that's the case
Once again, there are plenty of places where turkeys are a nuisance problem for some reason and need to be relocated. Those are pretty much exclusively where the birds that are being transplanted are coming from. Some examples: urban areas where they can't be hunted; agricultural areas/farms that have depredation problems; airports and similar places where they present safety issues, etc..
None of us want turkeys taken out of marginal populations that are providing hunting opportunity to the public,...and I doubt seriously that is happening. I have participated in a number of trap and transplant operations and in every case we were trapping birds that were either a nuisance problem for some reason or were otherwise taken from an area where there were plenty of turkeys such that trapping and relocating some of them would have no impact on the trapped population other than removing some individual birds.
In summary (one more time), fixing turkey population problems quickly involves identifying the causes of the declines, implementing management solutions to those problems, and then supplementing turkey numbers in those places through translocations. ....It is as simple (and complex) as that. There just needs to be a focus put back on doing that.
And finally, managed hunting under sound biological parameters has absolutely no impact on healthy turkey populations in terms of overall population numbers and stability.
Man, between hogs and predators and poaching and getting rid of hardwoods and state wildlife departments that don`t give a damn, etc., etc.,.... this thread has enough depressing stuff to keep me on a downer for a week at least! I`ve about decided there aren`t going to be any turkeys anywhere within 5 years!
If anybody knows of any bright spots, PLEASE POST! Or else I`m likely to feel guilty even going in the woods!
Quote from: James gang on February 22, 2020, 11:17:47 PM
The poaching might not be so bad this year they are putting more law in the woods afraid someone might take a crack at a pig
Let me guess, you got caught shooting a pig? Talk to anyone on here from a southern state and they will assure you that you don't want hogs around. If the state allows recreational hunting of them it just spreads them out and makes them harder to control. Or people get the great idea that they should stock hogs for an additional hunting opportunity. They can't leave any grey areas in the regulations regarding this or people will abuse it and then you're overrun with hogs. Let the aerial gunners and trappers take care of em. It seems to be working very well in KS when other states have lost the battle because they didn't get on it soon enough.
I've got a buddy who owns several thousand acres in KS. I've seen pics of all of the hogs shot from helicopters. It's an open area. They announced they would be doing that on a refuge here in SEMO. They killed 1 hog. I'm not sure that's an efficient not economical method to control or eradicate.
::)
Quote from: James gang on February 22, 2020, 09:52:01 PM
Our state Mo.is clear cutting all the forest and fining us 5000 if we shoot a pig thats how much m.d.c. is worried about our turkey population which just keeps getting smaller every year
Can someone explain why you don't have an open season on an invasive species? When every other state can't get rid of them allowing anything short of land mines why would you deter anyone from shooting a hog.
it seems like habitat and predators are top on most everyone's list.
It appears like much of public land people feel the habitat is poorly managed, the areas of public with great habitat are much easier these days to find out about them which results in over pressured hunting.
Quote from: TauntoHawk on February 24, 2020, 03:33:52 PM
::)Quote from: James gang on February 22, 2020, 09:52:01 PM
Our state Mo.is clear cutting all the forest and fining us 5000 if we shoot a pig thats how much m.d.c. is worried about our turkey population which just keeps getting smaller every year
Can someone explain why you don't have an open season on an invasive species? When every other state can't get rid of them allowing anything short of land mines why would you deter anyone from shooting a hog.
The theory behind it is that it spreads the sounders out and makes it harder for trapping. Of course, there is absolutely no data to back that up.
Arkansas has had that rule on public land for a few years now. They also just performed a couple of Aerial hunts that were paid for by the USDA. They killed a bunch, but barely scratched the surface.
Some buddies and I feel like there are more raccoons on the landscape we hunt because of all the deer feeders full of corn. (and I have seen several feeders out during turkey season also) and we all know about the hogs, so we have been trapping hogs. And predator hunting,and trapping coons
Lol no dang it i haven't got to shoot one yet.I don't want hogs i hope they kill them all ( i dont think mdc stands a chance)i own two properties that had hogs one borders mark twain as i mentioned earlier after mdc said they caught the majority of the pigs in the area then hunters with dogs kill a pile of them in 1.5 days i know which one i will call if i have any more problems.
The hunters also gave the pigs to people to eat ( had some couple nights ago surprising how good it was) instead of leaving dozens of them piled on the river bank
so they can be washed in the river soon as it comes back up( check out missouri feral hogs on facebook) last year they told us to stay out of the river because of some bacteria in the water. Thats what mdc does why im tempted to turn them in to the govt. oh wait thats them my bad.
As far as hogs scattering the same hunters turn there dogs loose in same place every time why are there still pigs there? They chased some pigs for several miles killing one and wounding one two days later they killed the wounded pig right where it all started.They say no matter what the hogs keep returning to the same spot.
I don't know how much you know about the terrain in southern mo but were not in kansas anymore comparing apples to oranges
Quote from: AndyN on February 24, 2020, 12:03:18 PM
Quote from: James gang on February 22, 2020, 11:17:47 PM
The poaching might not be so bad this year they are putting more law in the woods afraid someone might take a crack at a pig
Let me guess, you got caught shooting a pig? Talk to anyone on here from a southern state and they will assure you that you don't want hogs around. If the state allows recreational hunting of them it just spreads them out and makes them harder to control. Or people get the great idea that they should stock hogs for an additional hunting opportunity. They can't leave any grey areas in the regulations regarding this or people will abuse it and then you're overrun with hogs. Let the aerial gunners and trappers take care of em. It seems to be working very well in KS when other states have lost the battle because they didn't get on it soon enough.
Quote from: James gang on February 24, 2020, 10:13:17 PM
Lol no dang it i haven't got to shoot one yet.I don't want hogs i hope they kill them all ( i dont think mdc stands a chance)i own two properties that had hogs one borders mark twain as i mentioned earlier after mdc said they caught the majority of the pigs in the area then hunters with dogs kill a pile of them in 1.5 days i know which one i will call if i have any more problems.
The hunters also gave the pigs to people to eat ( had some couple nights ago surprising how good it was) instead of leaving dozens of them piled on the river bank
so they can be washed in the river soon as it comes back up( check out missouri feral hogs on facebook) last year they told us to stay out of the river because of some bacteria in the water. Thats what mdc does why im tempted to turn them in to the govt. oh wait thats them my bad.
As far as hogs scattering the same hunters turn there dogs loose in same place every time why are there still pigs there? They chased some pigs for several miles killing one and wounding one two days later they killed the wounded pig right where it all started.They say no matter what the hogs keep returning to the same spot.
I don't know how much you know about the terrain in southern mo but were not in kansas anymore comparing apples to oranges
In VA our DGIF times our opener after hens start being bred, so far so good with what they've been doing. A recommendation to increase our daily bag limit from one bird a day to two was shot down a couple of years ago, this was shortly after you were beginning to hear about turkey populations declining. I'm glad our Board listened and didn't make that change. I think we're just seeing the carrying capacity being reached in some parts of the US and add into that the decline in fur trapping, you have more nest robbers roaming the woods. We don't have a hog problem in VA yet so I can't speak to the effect they have.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Several years ago Oklahoma shortened and pushed the season back for the SE part of the state. Also cut the limit prior to changing the season. It hasn't helped. Obviously The wildlife Dept is aware of the problem, hence the changes, but nothing is being done to reverse the trend now. I've been told that statewide the population is steady, but SE Ok holds Eastern turkeys...and if the population in SE Ok is steady, the way it is right now, it's in serious trouble.
Quote from: trkehunr93 on February 24, 2020, 10:37:59 PM
In VA our DGIF times our opener after hens start being bred, so far so good with what they've been doing. A recommendation to increase our daily bag limit from one bird a day to two was shot down a couple of years ago, this was shortly after you were beginning to hear about turkey populations declining. I'm glad our Board listened and didn't make that change. I think we're just seeing the carrying capacity being reached in some parts of the US and add into that the decline in fur trapping, you have more nest robbers roaming the woods. We don't have a hog problem in VA yet so I can't speak to the effect they have. You're exactly right. I hunt a very small piece of private and 10 years ago you'd hear one gobbling Turkey on the roost, then wouldn't gobble till fly up that evening. I bought some traps and started in on the coyotes, coons, skunks, and possums, and literally within 2 seasons it was a different place. No Jake's, and trapping. We got 4 with a 10"+ beard last season. Its remarkable.
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Quote from: West Augusta on February 23, 2020, 09:06:38 AM
West Virginia hasn't changed. They don't open the season until most hens are on the nest. It seems late but it keeps the population steady. Been told, the state doesn't care if we kill turkeys, their job is to make sure we have turkeys to hunt.
Strike this post. West Virginia is adding a 5th week. Not at the beginning of the season but the end. Still could hurt future population.
A year or two back I read an article about the DNR in Ga. placing sound recorders all over a WMA to see if it was true that gobblers really crank up just before breeding season, then slow down during breeding and crank it back up when most hens start setting. They concluded that they do not. How can they afford all that but can't plant food plots. How did that help the turkeys?
Quote from: longspur on March 01, 2020, 07:44:51 PM
A year or two back I read an article about the DNR in Ga. placing sound recorders all over a WMA to see if it was true that gobblers really crank up just before breeding season, then slow down during breeding and crank it back up when most hens start setting. They concluded that they do not. How can they afford all that but can't plant food plots. How did that help the turkeys?
They don't . It didn't.