Turkey hunting forum for turkey hunting tips
General Discussion => General Forum => Topic started by: Happy on March 07, 2019, 10:44:02 AM
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Been mulling over the trends in hunting and wonder what others opinions are.
A: Are we loosing the skills and effort required to become good hunters by substituting technology, as well as new practices such as food plots and feeders.
B: All this good and wonderful because it is helping recruit new hunters and makes hunting more enjoyable.
I really don't care what others do as it has no bearing on my life but I feel a stronger draw to option A.
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What some people call "Turkeyhunting" nowadays is a joke. When your whole hunt involves some kind of gimmick or crutch your missing the best part of the sport. Other than getting the much needed hero pics for Facebook there can't be much enjoyment in it. I think even with all the new people taking up the sport as many will be dropping out after they burn out on the fad. Eventually they'll find another fad to chase and the increase of new hunters will start to decline.
Before all the corner cutting and ready packaged crutches were available it took time to become a turkey hunter and a lot of people dropped out when they realized how much effort was involved. Remove the effort or difficulty and you have made turkey hunting appealing to the masses.
You still hear a lot of the "We need more hunters or they'll take it away from us" if Obama didn't do away with hunting then I think we'll be fine without a new batch of wannabes most of which don't vote anyway.
I think there will always be a small group of true Turkey hunters that will keep the old school skills of Turkey Hunting alive fewer every year maybe but always some
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I agree with you both.
It's an instant gratification society. No one wants to take the time to become proficient with anything be it calling, weapon or hunting skill. Look how many folks these days pick up a crossbow to hunt deer and miss the entire experience of archery. I believe most of this younger generation will give up on hunting in the not so distant future. I wouldn't trust 98% of the kids I know within bullet shot of me with a gun anyway. It's sad but the way it is unfortunately.
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I kind of look at it like bowhunting. Technology has increased so much along with a heavy dose of hollywood production , that the want it now generation does not really get the experience that older hunters get. Im saying that when I started turkey hunting , the kill was not the most important part. It was playing the game. I like to shoot turkeys as much as the next guy , but I learned many years ago , its how you kill them that makes the difference. Im old school in that regard. Facebook and social media contributes somewhat to hunting now. Guys and gals are only satisfied with the kill. Pressure is on them to one up the next guy. I kill my limit most years and call many for other folks but I feel that my hunt is a success if I get to work a bird. The older I get , I realize that out time here is short and I try to savor every moment when im out there. You never know if that will be the last bird you will ever work or the last deer you stick.
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I don't agree with either. Hunting is a dying sport. In a hundred years, between animal rights groups and non involvement of the younger generations, hunting will be almost obsolete. Food plots, feeders, decoys, TSS don't guarantee Instant Gratification. We are a dying breed. I am 61 years old and I love matching wits and enjoying God's splendor every chance I get. I want turkeys in my lap and deer inside 300 yards. I do plant food plots, supplemental feed and utilize decoys but I do it to enhance the hunting experience. I hunted close to 75 days during deer season and probably 25 days during turkey season last spring with zero kills. Could I have killed, absolutely but I chose not to. For me it's about the splendor, my goals and the shear enjoyment of hunting. My :z-twocents:
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When I first started turkey hunting 1996,39 years old I just wanted to kill a turkey. Had no guidance or advice from others. In 3 or 4 years I became very good at it. I’ve killed them just about any way you can think of. Except off the roost, something in me just wouldn’t let me do that. Gradually I learned how much more fun and satisfying it was to kill them the traditional way. Especially a big ole high pressure Tom that everybody and his brother have been trying to kill for 2 or 3 years. So maybe some of the people that just want to kill one will grow out of it. No skill whatsoever in sitting by a field in a blind waiting on a turkey or hiding behind a fan and crawling up to him. If that makes you happy then that’s fine. It used to make me happy. As I implied in another thread, OG made a turkey hunter out of me. :you_rock:
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Hunting is not dying. A hundred years from now there will still be hunting too much money involved. I have hunting magazines from the 80's singing the same tune, hunting will be out lawed by the year 2000 blah blah and etc. New hunters overall ducks,quail,deer,dove etc combined may be down but not turkey hunting. Turkey hunting is the new fad and I think mostly because there's nothing else to hunt in the spring to disperse the numbers. There's plenty of new turkey hunters every year too many in some cases
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The sports are losing guys that know anything. It’s all about a dead animal nowadays, no matter how it happens unfortunately.
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I believe it was Dan Infalt who said that 10% of hunters kill 90% of game. I know he's mainly a deer hunter, but I think this applies across the board. I like to think that those 10% are the good woodsmen, who become part of the woods, as opposed to an intruder in them.
In my opinion, no technology can expedite the process of becoming a good woodsman. It takes time, patience, and an insatiable will to learn every time you are in the woods, and a good mentor never hurts either. As a matter of fact, I would say that when this new technology is used as a crutch, it severely limits the ability to become a better hunter. ("Scent Control" technology for deer hunting instead of knowing how to play the wind; plopping a decoy down 15 yards in front of you instead of being sure to have a good setup)
I'm only 24, and have so much to learn when it comes to being a woodsman and hunter, but I have gotten to the point where I feel like I am more part of the woods, and it is almost a spiritual experience every time I go. Success rates aside, I feel sorry for the people who were introduced to the idea that only gizmos, gadgets, and kill rates were what is important instead of becoming students of the outdoors. Hopefully, shows like the Hunting Public and Pinhoti Project, which get away from the advertisement heavy cable shows, will help show people there is a different way to hunt. We as hunters play a big part of that as well. Personally, I know I can do a better job of trying to share my love of the outdoors with others.
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I believe it was Dan Infalt who said that 10% of hunters kill 90% of game. I know he's mainly a deer hunter, but I think this applies across the board. I like to think that those 10% are the good woodsmen, who become part of the woods, as opposed to an intruder in them.
In my opinion, no technology can expedite the process of becoming a good woodsman. It takes time, patience, and an insatiable will to learn every time you are in the woods, and a good mentor never hurts either. As a matter of fact, I would say that when this new technology is used as a crutch, it severely limits the ability to become a better hunter. ("Scent Control" technology for deer hunting instead of knowing how to play the wind; plopping a decoy down 15 yards in front of you instead of being sure to have a good setup)
I'm only 24, and have so much to learn when it comes to being a woodsman and hunter, but I have gotten to the point where I feel like I am more part of the woods, and it is almost a spiritual experience every time I go. Success rates aside, I feel sorry for the people who were introduced to the idea that only gizmos, gadgets, and kill rates were what is important instead of becoming students of the outdoors. Hopefully, shows like the Hunting Public and Pinhoti Project, which get away from the advertisement heavy cable shows, will help show people there is a different way to hunt. We as hunters play a big part of that as well. Personally, I know I can do a better job of trying to share my love of the outdoors with others.
Nicely put. As a younger guy myself, I do have a problem with finding other hunters my age that hunt like I do. I hunt hard and every single day I’m not working during almost every season open. It’s all about keeping up with the new fads on social media anymore. There are some of us that can do it with a mouth yelper and some miles on the boots, but not many. I’m actually looking forward to 20 years from now because once all you geriatric folks go off to meet the lord that’ll leave a lot of woods for me to cover hahaha just kidding on that part guys!
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In my opinion, no technology can expedite the process of becoming a good woodsman.
The problem is it seems these days you are known as a good woodsman only by the trophies on your wall and what you post on Facebook...
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Glad to see at least a few younger guys that haven't fell into the kill at all cost fad. I hope shows like the Penhoti Project will change the hunting show industry which has a lot to do with the fad.
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Glad to see at least a few younger guys that haven't fell into the kill at all cost fad. I hope shows like the Penhoti Project will change the hunting show industry which has a lot to do with the fad.
Between the Pinhoti Project and The Hunting Public I think are both great for the future generations.
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The “ship” is running aground with all the bickering. Decoys, blinds, crossbows, TSS and even the camo pattern topics usually get an argument started. Like it or not guys, Facebook and other social media are what a lot of younger people relate to and learn from. I mentioned Old Gobbler’s Facebook page on this forum a month ago and the replies surprised me because most sounded like I want you to hunt with the devil himself. These newbies often don’t know a thing about hunting, but want to learn. They don’t know 30 yards from a city block. I see it a lot when a group of kids are shooting at a duck 80 yards high because they had no one to mentor them. We started a new 35 year old hunter last year and the things we take for granted, he didn’t have a clue. I’m planning on taking a young hunter turkey hunting this year to help him shoot his his Tom. Smile boys and girls this hunting thing is supposed to be fun!
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I don't agree with either. Hunting is a dying sport. In a hundred years, between animal rights groups and non involvement of the younger generations, hunting will be almost obsolete. Food plots, feeders, decoys, TSS don't guarantee Instant Gratification. We are a dying breed. I am 61 years old and I love matching wits and enjoying God's splendor every chance I get. I want turkeys in my lap and deer inside 300 yards. I do plant food plots, supplemental feed and utilize decoys but I do it to enhance the hunting experience. I hunted close to 75 days during deer season and probably 25 days during turkey season last spring with zero kills. Could I have killed, absolutely but I chose not to. For me it's about the splendor, my goals and the shear enjoyment of hunting. My :z-twocents:
:icon_thumright:
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Glad to see at least a few younger guys that haven't fell into the kill at all cost fad. I hope shows like the Penhoti Project will change the hunting show industry which has a lot to do with the fad.
It is sad to see how many people my age treat the outdoors. I refuse to hunt with some of my closest friends because of this. I don't mean to sound self-righteous, but it sincerely takes away from my enjoyment when I take someone hunting and the only skill or memory they want to take away from the experience is the pull of the trigger. Too many people now go hunting for the sole purpose to tell people they shot something, even if it took no skill or effort on their part to do so.
Granted, these are people my age who have been hunting before, but just don't have the passion to really immerse themselves in the experience. I can't knock them for that, because there are things I'm not passionate about, but I would get much more satisfaction from taking someone who shares that passion and desire to learn just lacks the means and experience in the woods.
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Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. ::) :z-dizzy:
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZklJHX2.jpg)
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I don't mean to sound self-righteous, but it sincerely takes away from my enjoyment when I take someone hunting and the only skill or memory they want to take away from the experience is the pull of the trigger.
I totally understand that sentiment. In my opinion, this again falls back on us as hunters. I think it all comes from whoever taught you how to hunt. My Dad taught me to hunt, duck hunting. We enjoyed getting out in the marsh way early, setting up our decoys, and then enjoying nature. We watched the beauty of how many more stars you could see than back in town. We saw shooting stars. We heard hogs foraging in nearby marshes. We heard deer snorting. We watched night give way to the dawn, and listened to the songbirds wake up, and occasionally even got to hear a turkey gobble. We took in the majesty of thousands of ducks flying over head. We didn't take passing shots. Dad only let us shoot ducks that were cupped and had their landing gear down.
My Dad taught me to enjoy the beauty of nature, and that was what hunting was about. If you harvested some game while you were enjoying nature, that was just the icing on the cake. To this day, I'm still like that. I love enjoying nature, and killing a critter is a bonus. Do I get frustrated when I'm in a dry spell? Sure I do. I think we all do. But if you can't enjoy nature, you're missing out on what's great about hunting.
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"Life it too short to be concerned about what others think or do. Just be true to yourself, surround yourself with like-minded people, ignore the negativity, stay positive and enjoy your own style of hunting." - Warren Womack
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The “ship” is running aground with all the bickering. Decoys, blinds, crossbows, TSS and even the camo pattern topics usually get an argument started. Like it or not guys, Facebook and other social media are what a lot of younger people relate to and learn from. I mentioned Old Gobbler’s Facebook page on this forum a month ago and the replies surprised me because most sounded like I want you to hunt with the devil himself. These newbies often don’t know a thing about hunting, but want to learn. They don’t know 30 yards from a city block. I see it a lot when a group of kids are shooting at a duck 80 yards high because they had no one to mentor them. We started a new 35 year old hunter last year and the things we take for granted, he didn’t have a clue. I’m planning on taking a young hunter turkey hunting this year to help him shoot his his Tom. Smile boys and girls this hunting thing is supposed to be fun!
I couldn't agree more with this. I was at the NWTF convention 2 weeks and attended a seminar on this very topic. Cuz Strickland had the stat of there was 19 million hunters in 1980 now there's only 11 million. Here's an article
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation
Also in this seminar was a guy named Jeremiah Doughty from Southern California he say's he gets so many death threats he has his own FBI agent. He has a thing called from field to plate teaching people to cook wild game. He started a dialogue with a guy that had threaten to kill him and his whole family. After time he was able to take that guy hunting.
He also has taken Gang bangers out hunting too. He took one kid out that they couldn't even give the kid a loaded gun. They gave him a single bullet when a deer came out. That kid is now coming out of college and going to be a state Wildlife officer. I don't think I could do what he does.
But we are losing hunters all the time. One of the reason's it seem's like the woods are so crowded is because we have less and less wild areas to hunt. That's a major factor for decline to hard to get out and too many people.
Some of the responses here is Elitism at it's best. I challenge ever one on this thread to take out at least one new person hunting. Even better if it's someone that isn't like you. Bubba
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Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. ::) :z-dizzy:
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZklJHX2.jpg)
Another great post Jimbo.
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I don't mean to sound self-righteous, but it sincerely takes away from my enjoyment when I take someone hunting and the only skill or memory they want to take away from the experience is the pull of the trigger.
I totally understand that sentiment. In my opinion, this again falls back on us as hunters. I think it all comes from whoever taught you how to hunt. My Dad taught me to hunt, duck hunting. We enjoyed getting out in the marsh way early, setting up our decoys, and then enjoying nature. We watched the beauty of how many more stars you could see than back in town. We saw shooting stars. We heard hogs foraging in nearby marshes. We heard deer snorting. We watched night give way to the dawn, and listened to the songbirds wake up, and occasionally even got to hear a turkey gobble. We took in the majesty of thousands of ducks flying over head. We didn't take passing shots. Dad only let us shoot ducks that were cupped and had their landing gear down.
My Dad taught me to enjoy the beauty of nature, and that was what hunting was about. If you harvested some game while you were enjoying nature, that was just the icing on the cake. To this day, I'm still like that. I love enjoying nature, and killing a critter is a bonus. Do I get frustrated when I'm in a dry spell? Sure I do. I think we all do. But if you can't enjoy nature, you're missing out on what's great about hunting.
^ Great memories JimBo. The inseparable bond that hunting has bought between us friends,fathers and son’s or daughters. Now we’re speaking the language :)
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Don't care what others do. Prefer seat of the pants hunting myself. May have to work a little harder, walk further at times to find birds but it's more satisfying that way to me these days and I normally have the work flexibility and time to support it.
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Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. ::) :z-dizzy:
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZklJHX2.jpg)
I agree with this 100%
Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
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The “ship” is running aground with all the bickering. Decoys, blinds, crossbows, TSS and even the camo pattern topics usually get an argument started. Like it or not guys, Facebook and other social media are what a lot of younger people relate to and learn from. I mentioned Old Gobbler’s Facebook page on this forum a month ago and the replies surprised me because most sounded like I want you to hunt with the devil himself. These newbies often don’t know a thing about hunting, but want to learn. They don’t know 30 yards from a city block. I see it a lot when a group of kids are shooting at a duck 80 yards high because they had no one to mentor them. We started a new 35 year old hunter last year and the things we take for granted, he didn’t have a clue. I’m planning on taking a young hunter turkey hunting this year to help him shoot his his Tom. Smile boys and girls this hunting thing is supposed to be fun!
I couldn't agree more with this. I was at the NWTF convention 2 weeks and attended a seminar on this very topic. Cuz Strickland had the stat of there was 19 million hunters in 1980 now there's only 11 million. Here's an article
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation
Also in this seminar was a guy named Jeremiah Doughty from Southern California he say's he gets so many death threats he has his own FBI agent. He has a thing called from field to plate teaching people to cook wild game. He started a dialogue with a guy that had threaten to kill him and his whole family. After time he was able to take that guy hunting.
He also has taken Gang bangers out hunting too. He took one kid out that they couldn't even give the kid a loaded gun. They gave him a single bullet when a deer came out. That kid is now coming out of college and going to be a state Wildlife officer. I don't think I could do what he does.
But we are losing hunters all the time. One of the reason's it seem's like the woods are so crowded is because we have less and less wild areas to hunt. That's a major factor for decline to hard to get out and too many people.
Some of the responses here is Elitism at it's best. I challenge ever one on this thread to take out at least one new person hunting. Even better if it's someone that isn't like you. Bubba
Very true and I agree.
Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
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Me, I am of the holier than thou school, and we have several openers for those who can qualify.
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Glad to see at least a few younger guys that haven't fell into the kill at all cost fad. I hope shows like the Penhoti Project will change the hunting show industry which has a lot to do with the fad.
Between the Pinhoti Project and The Hunting Public I think are both great for the future generations.
100%
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I think social media is what’s “ruining” Hunting now. So many are just doing it for Instagram. Chasing likes and recognition. That desire is what pushes people to start breaking the rules and lying about what and where and how they killed whatever it is. It’s not just hunting. This seems to be the case in whatever arena the person is in. The need for social gratification. It can be great to. I love seeing other people’s success and getting to watch the Pinhoti Project and THP is awesome. I wish there was a way to fix the other issues but it’s a culture problem. I think taking out new hunters and showing them the way is our best chance to keep our sport headed in the right direction. And also supporting groups that support public land rights and conservation groups.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. ::) :z-dizzy:
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZklJHX2.jpg)
I agree 100%, and I definitely do not want to come across as an elitist. I love the outdoors and want everyone who can to experience how great it can be. Technology, especially the internet and social media, has provided a platform for hunters to reach people than ever before. Any legal and ethical method of hunting that recruits new hunters and introduces people to outdoors I unequivocally support.
So to answer the original question B is that I think its great that new people are introduced to the outdoors and hunting, and I hope they develop a lifelong passion.
But to answer question A, I think these people who are starting out and want to learn how to hunt are vulnerable to advertisements of a "must have" product that will help them be a better hunter. If they rely too much on that product, it could slow their learning process of becoming a good hunter.
There is a wealth of information available to new hunters via the internet, and I think the trend toward hunting media on youtube that is more "experience" oriented rather than mainstream television shows that rely heavily on advertising and selling products helps all hunters.
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I was on a forum about a decade ago that got attacked by group of Old Schoolers. Any question about anything that was not up to their idea of traditional turkey hunting was derided and abused. It was horrible. It dang near ruined the forum, and chased away most newbies.
I'm a turkey hunting troglodyte by most standards, but I'm not a bigot. Somewhere along the way I've hunted with a lot of the new fangled stuff, and just found it wanting. I've got a pop-up blind, and I used it early on with my fidgeting sons. It's 15 years old and looks brand new. If I'm looking at hunting through a 3-day rain it might come out. I've hunted with decoys, but normally I find they aren't worth the trouble. I'm still hunting with the same 3" 12 GA #4 lead load for over 20 years, and I'll probably keep on shooting pretty much the same for the next 20. It's not because lead is traditional. It's cheap, and it gets the job done.
Camo? Yeah, I wear it, but none of it matches, and I'm just as happy wearing 30 yr old DPMS fatigues as anything.
Calls? I've tried everything, and I learned to make my own. Mine do just as good as the store-bought stuff. They don't look like much, but I can call a turkey with them.
All the new stuff? Look, once you get past the glitz, it comes down to weight. If I'm going to schlep it around, it has to be worth the schlepping. Turkeys are not THAT hard to hunt. I don't need something clanking around in my bag if it isn't going to help.
What the Old Schoolers failed to realize is that most people do not see the benefit of only using a box call that Neil Cost himself made. It ain't about turkey hunting smarts. It's about turkey hunting snobbery. There's plenty of birds out there for everyone. If you get your rocks off shooting birds with $9 turkey loads, fine. If you can't put your butt down next to a big tree and call a turkey to you, do it the way you feel best.
One other thing about those Old Schoolers: Their whole premise was whacked. Real old style turkey hunting involved sneaking under a tree with a 32-20 and popping them on the roost. It was digging a trench, filling it with corn and waiting until you could get a whole flock with one shot. It was about pouring corn in old bed springs. All this new-fangled shotgun-only -footing is all a fairly modern fabrication. If you want to read about a real turkey hunter, read Fredrich Gerstacker's autobiography.
Gotta run. See ya' later.
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I do support any legal means of hunting. I couldn't care less if you use decoys, a blind or shells that cost $55 per 5. Whatever floats your canoe.
What I can't understand is why this younger generation relies on space book and tweeter to learn everything. They don't like guns or eating meat but don't have a logical reason for either. Save all the animals they cry but when fluffy gets eaten by a coyote who do they call to shoot It? The very people they complain about hunting. I have done ADC coyote trapping and hunting for some of these type of people, the irrational thinking blows my mind.
Is society so disconnected that people don't realize animals die for our survival and has been that way for millennia?
What happened to using the grey matter and common sense the good Lord gave us to figure out how to do things instead of listening to some podcast?
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First off, this wasn't meant to be a winefest. Just people's opinion on where we are trending. I have my opinions on hunting and fully respect others opinions.
The selfish side of me loves the new trends in hunting as it frees up a lot of real estate and competition for me. My fear is that we are loosing the skills required to be good hunters and now it is becoming more based on technology and basically farming with game animals. Skills are being lost as well as a respect for the animal itself because it now has no status unless it's a "trophy". I may be viewed as an elitist but I am not. I have never considered myself a master hunter. The only difference I see between myself and a guy hunting over a corn pile is that I am willing to loose more often and want to challenge myself to be better and learn more.
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Not a whinefest.
The short answer is the ship is sinking. Most of the reasons are outlined above in one post or another. Unfortunately this is the sad reality of it.
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I get ribbed on here because I hunt out of a blind, before my car accident I never used one, love being out there seeing the morning come to life, I miss chipmunks on my shoe or squirrels on my head. I miss looking to the side and seeing spiderwebs with the morning dew on them glistening in the morning sun, I lose all of that in a blind, I don't hunt out of a blind because I want to, I hunt out of a blind because my pain makes it so I have to shift around a lot, not just because of my back and hips but because of my knees and my left ankle and toes. I am pretty unlikely to get anything outside of a blind because of this movement.
Last year I was able to get out of the blind and give a try at sitting on the ground (with back pad and padded seat) and I did much better than I thought I would, I want to try it again this year and hope I do even better but if my body says no then I will go back to the blind and sitting on a chair and being able to fidget and stretch and stand up so I can stay out there longer. I find people that think blind hunting is going to guarantee somebody a turkey hilarious, it is harder to hunt from a blind because you are stuck where you set that blind up whereas those that are not in a blind can chase the turkeys like I used to do.
As far as things used I think there is both good and bad in some of the new things just like I think there is some good and bad in some of the old things. These lyrics about sum up what I feel, though I hate the liberal that sang them.
I believe there's a best of both worlds
Mixing old and new
Recognizing change is seldom expected
As i long suspected
They believed that strange was a word for wrong
Well not in my song
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Yes new hunters lack the skills, everything from wind direction to scent control is done for them.I guess learning to use these gadgets can be considered a skill but they pull you away from the connection with nature just as the phone has pulled us away from communicating with each other.
Where this ship is headed is not good when you consider 40 to 50.percent of families are divorced and 40 percent of those have no father in the picture . Exposure to hunting for these kids is limited then add the exposure they do get from media that involves 1000 dollar guns and bows it is going to be a tough road to keep a high number of kids involved.
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Not a whinefest.
The short answer is the ship is sinking. Most of the reasons are outlined above in one post or another. Unfortunately this is the sad reality of it.
Not if you take the time to mentor a new hunter it ain't. Plenty here do that, would wager you do or will at some point. Good on those who take the time to share the outdoors.
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I do support any legal means of hunting. I couldn't care less if you use decoys, a blind or shells that cost $55 per 5. Whatever floats your canoe.
What I can't understand is why this younger generation relies on space book and tweeter to learn everything. They don't like guns or eating meat but don't have a logical reason for either. Save all the animals they cry but when fluffy gets eaten by a coyote who do they call to shoot It? The very people they complain about hunting. I have done ADC coyote trapping and hunting for some of these type of people, the irrational thinking blows my mind.
Is society so disconnected that people don't realize animals die for our survival and has been that way for millennia?
What happened to using the grey matter and common sense the good Lord gave us to figure out how to do things instead of listening to some podcast?
Nothing has changed about the newer generations doing what’s cool when it comes to hunting. I can guarantee almost every single person on this forum did what they thought was either the current standard or the new cool thing back in their days and that’s how they still do. My generation just happened to come along when social media was prevalent and glitzy Promos is the norm. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. K&H, Primos, and every other call maker or outfitter store has constantly pushed new things to the point that you’re buying a new vest every year. I don’t blame people my age at all...I blame the fact that you get on Instagram and it’s either full of promos from deer hunters turned overnight turkey hunters for two weeks or half naked girls that are turkey “professionals”. Primos literally just had some chick on their Instagram story today talking about how to use a mouth call and it sounded like dogcrap. All of this is being pushed by YOUR old timers that brought turkey hunting back to the mainstream in the 80s and 90s.
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I think that Chief and Rut pretty much described my way of thinking.
Want to know who to blame for the decline in hunting? First of all, look in the mirror (and I include me). That is the best place to start. I have mentored 4 young men and one young woman (son, 2 nephews, son in law and daughter) and taught them about ethics and the importance of having strong ethics as a hunter. Golden rule, etc. If you just want a turkey, run to Winn Dixie and buy one. It IS a sport, so play the game. But I could not care one whit what anyone thinks of my ethics (I use decoys in fields, I hunt with modern HTL loads), I only care about my rules within the laws. Make a friend out of goober in the woods and teach them why playing the game the right way is what makes it fun. My personal ethics is that after the first time, I would never let a guide (or a friend) call a bird for me. Just does not appeal to me. Never used a guide for fishing or duck hunting. To ME, it cheapens the game. No judgement on anyone, if you like that, have fun - I have several guide friends. Those are just my own rules, not for anyone else. Big difference in playing the game your own way and telling others how they should play the game though. Mentor them, show them the way - don't holier than thou them or lecture them. That's the mirror.
There was an old post from year ago, can't recall who said it and it was about duck hunting, but it is very true for most hunting. There is an evolution of a hunter - kill em all, make the hunt special, kill them my way, just enjoy the day. We all go through it, it just takes some longer and some less time. I don't kill any where near the ducks I used to and I am perfectly fine with it. I would rather kill 2 ducks in solitude than 2 limits in a crowded spot. No judgement, just how I like it. I would rather kill a big tom by calling him myself and playing the game and figuring it out on my own. If no kill happens, I try to learn and I still enjoy the day.
Where I live, I know hard core, do it right turkey hunters of all ages and I know shoot em any way you can, disregard limits braggers of all ages as well. Don't fool yourselves. There are plenty of folks that are grown that are worse than any kid.
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What I can't understand is why this younger generation relies on space book and tweeter to learn everything.
I understand it. No one taught them. One of my mentors, besides my daddy, was an 80 year old man when I was 14-15. He was just a family friend. He taught me to never shoot a squirrel in the head if it was for him, because his wife wanted brains and eggs. And he taught me to where any camo I wanted, just BE STILL. And many more lessons of life and hunting.
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Things have definitely changed, but so have the turkeys. Lots of people yelp yelpin, trying to sound like a world champion caller. I had an old timer tell me 2 years ago, son... were breeding the gobble out if the turkeys with all this new camo, long range guns, people driving, stopping, calling, not hearing an immediate response and leaving. He said son that old turkey won't always gobble, but if he keeps coming to calls and no hen.. he'll quit all together ???????????. Technology is what is ruining the sport. No more boots on the ground. More bout the kill than the hunt.
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Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. ::) :z-dizzy:
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZklJHX2.jpg)
AMEN and AMEN!!!! Couldn't have said it better RutnNStrutn!
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Not a whinefest.
The short answer is the ship is sinking. Most of the reasons are outlined above in one post or another. Unfortunately this is the sad reality of it.
Not if you take the time to mentor a new hunter it ain't. Plenty here do that, would wager you do or will at some point. Good on those who take the time to share the outdoors.
[/quote
I mentor as many people as I can. I introduced a woman, her daughter and my mother to turkey hunting last spring.
What I mean by the ship is sinking, is the lack of younger folks willing to go and experience the hunt. Some I can change their opinion others are dead set on not hunting anything no matter what I explain to them. It seems like I can get 1 out of 3 or 4 to go hunting. It's better than non but still under 50% recruitment.
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Hunter numbers are decreasing across the board so as long as it's legal and it gets folks in the woods I'm fine with it.
I don't think hunting will ever totally go away in this country, but I'd sure hate to see it turn into an elitists sport like in Europe.
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I agree with taking others hunting completely. I do it every year and my goal is not necessarily to make full fledged hunters out of them but to at least give them an understanding of it and a respect for it. As for the we are our own worst enemies? well I agree and disagree. Do we need to stick up for each other in certain aspects? Yes. Do we also need to police our own ranks and cull out those that are giving us a bad rap? I believe that also is a yes. Like it or not we are a minority and it is imperative that we conduct ourselves with class. This isn't about blinds or decoys. This is about explaining and demonstrating that we honestly care about our natural resources and the animals we pursue. The modern trend of success at all costs and only the kill matters is not going to be viewed positively by those on the fence about hunting. I have won a handful of anti-hunting liberals over just because them being at my house and eventually eating wild game and discussing things. I can promise you that would not have happened if I acted like your typical Bubba redneck. Discussion is good, disagreements can be good if civil. Thought and concern for hunting and the way it is portrayed should be a priority for all who love it and want to keep it.
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In my opinion turkey hunting has evolved over the years, equipment and gear has become much more advanced. But i feel it's still challenging calling that old gobbler to the gun barrel. Back in the old days it was hard to find a huntable flock of birds just about anywhere in my home state. To become a better hunter i wanted to learn as much as possible from the old times who turkey hunted to joining the NWTF. In the early days of learning we didn't have the internet or this great forum, we had to read books and magazines. Without question the gear and knowledge without question has improved drastically. I myself being of the older age enjoy the new improvements because if it wasn't for some of these new improvements , i'm sure i might not be hunting now ... I use all or most equipment available to us.. IN MY OPINION HUNT THE WAY YOU WANT REGARDLESS AND ENJOY THE GREAT OUTDOORS .. the only one i'm trying to please in how i hunt is myself ...
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No denying our numbers are going down, but I will always do my part in the fight.
Personally, I have been mentoring for the past 15 years, both young men & ladies and some that have not been so young, but it is part of what is in me and what I do. I teach those about conservation, caring for our lands & waters, hunter ethics, woodsmanship and other hunting skills. It is not in some to do this, never knowing what it does for the soul.
I'm not here to judge you by how you hunt, some may get "Preachy" with their OPINION but that's all it is... Just keep your hunts legal, from there as I say "Just tools in the shed". Learned it long ago not worry about what others think, I know who I am.
MK M GOBL
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Been mulling over the trends in hunting and wonder what others opinions are.
A: Are we loosing the skills and effort required to become good hunters by substituting technology, as well as new practices such as food plots and feeders.
B: All this good and wonderful because it is helping recruit new hunters and makes hunting more enjoyable.
I really don't care what others do as it has no bearing on my life but I feel a stronger draw to option A.
In KY and every other state in our region, it is illegal to bait turkeys. It is wrong. It does the birds no good. Period. Food plots are another issue. I know there are a bunch of guys who think food plots are anathema. I'm sorry for them. I think part of it is a lack of understanding and I also see a lot of jealousy in it. The truth of it is that gobblers are still hard to hunt whether there is a food plot involved or not. Furthermore, any plot that gets planted is good for the flock in general and for a bunch of other wildlife too.
There seems to be this idea among some turkey hunters that their way is not only the best, but that their way is the only way and the rest should be shunned. I've got a 200 acre farm. I haven't hunted on public land in 20 years. I stopped guessing where the birds were going to be about 15 years ago. Nothing changes year to year except the number of birds and their willingness to come to calls. I feel like I've been repeating the same game of chess since 2002. However, it does not make it any easier. The birds still win in the end.
Believe me when I say that introducing a food plot into the mix does absolutely nothing to their huntability. Yes, it may entice them to a particular spot. However, the birds tend to feed out in the middle and it can be very hard to get them in gun range. Most of a plot's benefit comes after season is over.
Having said all that, I'm not planting this year. Chalk it up to too little effect for too much cost.
Turkey hunting in any form is a bit of a joke. I don't mean that in a derogatory way. I mean it is something you either get or your don't. I've taken a bunch of guys out. Only one has stuck with it. Among my sons, I've got one, #3, that is a better hunter than me. I have another, #2, that kind of goes through the motions, but really prefers squirrels. #1 doesn't hunt at all. Me? If I had to schlep endless miles in a vest, running and gunning, I'd have hung it up ages ago. On the other hand, the idea of walking out a half mile or so from the house and calling birds is fun.
I have to say that probably just as fun for me has been going out in the month or so before season and recording the birds for my podcasts. That and the audio I get recording some of my hunts my big thrill.
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He said son that old turkey won't always gobble, but if he keeps coming to calls and no hen.. he'll quit all together ???????????.
[/quote]
I’m convinced turkeys don’t gobble like they used to. Know for certain they don’t in my area. The place I hunt the most has a good population and I’ve heard not one gobble in two years. I’m not sure if they learned not to gobble or if it’s a personality trait. I was told years ago that there is turkeys out there that never gobble. Can the young turkeys learn from older ones not to gobble or did the ones that gobble get killed and the quiet ones live to pass on their quiet genes.
I despise hunting from a blind. I just don’t feel like I’m part of the woods. Feel like I’m sitting in my living room shooting out the window. That’s not to belittle hunting from a blind, just my personal preference. I can sit by a tree and call one of these turkeys up. Pain level reaches 7 or 8 but it’s what I like to do. I learned to hunt squirrels as a kid sitting by a tree and later hunt deer sitting by a tree. Maybe that’s why I like to hunt turkeys sitting by a tree. You’re not going to take a kid or anybody new to the sport there and see one of those toms in range without a blind. When doing so you are teaching them that’s the way you do it. So we really have no choice. As I stated earlier I didn’t learn to hunt turkeys the traditional way, it just grew on me. I believe as long as people hunt whichever way they enjoy, the sport will be around for a long time.
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I will argue the food plot thing a little bit. I have heard the premise of it helps the overall health of game animals and quite frankly I don't see it. Anytime you draw animals in and overpopulate the carrying capacity of the land its bad. I think far more damage than good is accomplished. I do believe improving natural habitat is good but that's about it. I guess to me I see the bottom line as being that most want to keep all the game animals to themselves and that wrong also. It's hurts the animals and it hurts hunting. Nothing can be effectively managed if it's stockpiled on someone's private preserve. And this is not jealousy speaking If I wanted to feed animals I would but I don't see long term benefit to it and I like the critters I kill to be organic and not full of GMO corn like most cattle. It's kinda like the fellow that claims he is only hunting "mature" deer only to pass on a 5 year old buck because he had a busted tine. It's pretty easy to see what he is truly after. And that's fine just don't call it something it isnt.
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Personally gentlemen, I think way too many of you put way too much emphasis on being anti-anything that is new. I don't agree with the holier than thou attitude that traditional hunting is good, and anything else is bad philosophy. That's why I avoid a lot of topics that involve new technology or new techniques. I know what's coming in those threads.
bbcoach is correct. Hunting is under attack like never before, and with the millenial generation coming up not wanting anything to do with guns, hunting or eating wild game, the future of hunting is indeed in jeopardy. With that in mind, we are our own worst enemies. We fight and argue about traditional vs new, 10 vs 12 vs 20 vs 410 gauges, longbow vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow, dog hunting vs still hunting, hunting raw woods vs baiting vs food plots, scent control vs none, TSS vs Hevishot vs lead, decoys vs no decoys vs reaping, legal vs ethical, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum. ::) :z-dizzy:
We the hunting community are shooting ourselves right in the proverbial foot with all this nonsense. Personally, I say, if it is legal (which is completely different than ethical, because everyone's ethics are different), and you want to do it, then GO FOR IT!!! That doesn't mean I agree with it, or that I would hunt that way, but I support your right to hunt in any LEGAL manner that you choose. That is what ALL of us should do if we love and support our sport of hunting.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZklJHX2.jpg)
Words right out of my mouth! 100% agree
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I will argue the food plot thing a little bit. I have heard the premise of it helps the overall health of game animals and quite frankly I don't see it. Anytime you draw animals in and overpopulate the carrying capacity of the land its bad. I think far more damage than good is accomplished. I do believe improving natural habitat is good but that's about it. I guess to me I see the bottom line as being that most want to keep all the game animals to themselves and that wrong also. It's hurts the animals and it hurts hunting. Nothing can be effectively managed if it's stockpiled on someone's private preserve. And this is not jealousy speaking If I wanted to feed animals I would but I don't see long term benefit to it and I like the critters I kill to be organic and not full of GMO corn like most cattle. It's kinda like the fellow that claims he is only hunting "mature" deer only to pass on a 5 year old buck because he had a busted tine. It's pretty easy to see what he is truly after. And that's fine just don't call it something it isnt.
The long term benefit to the hunter from a food plot is that you end up with a few more birds, and the flocks remain fairly stable. For the birds themselves, having a food plot or two around buffers the birds from the boom and bust that nature usually presents. Around our place, we have cicadas-- at least 2 major broods. When there is a cicada brood emerging, a bunch of things happen:
1) More poults survive, because in the critical May/June time frame, they have this mass of big bugs to eat.
2) The cicadas prune the oak trees. Usually this means the acorn crop goes bust that fall.
3) The pruning causes more new growth in the oak trees, so the next year sees an acorn boom.
By having alternatives around the turkey numbers stay much more constant. That whole boom/bust things resonates for years. Some years, there seem to be no hens. Other years, there seems to be no gobblers. One year we had a plague of Jakes. Another year, we had so many 2 yr olds that they went gay on us. They stayed in single-sex flocks and would only display for each other and chased off all the hens. Probably all of these things trace back to the two cicada emergences that happen about 7-8 years apart around here.
Having good habitat management alleviates at least some of the pressures. Food plots are just one of the tools. Mind you, none of this involved hunting over food plots. The plots help out pre- and post- season.
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A: Are we loosing the skills and effort required to become good hunters by substituting technology, as well as new practices such as food plots and feeders.
Sure, this is happening to a degree, but what we are witnessing in our society are the affects of urbanization combined with technology and an ever-increasing array of adrenaline-inducing alternatives to hunting. The newer generation is faced with making a choice between a pastime (hunting) that is increasingly facing alienation in modern society, and the much-easier-to-obtain thrills found in technology and an urban existence.
Having said that, although hunter numbers are steadily decreasing, those that become hunters, and end up sticking with it, are doing so because they REALLY want to. As such, they are becoming very proficient at it,...and also very skilled. I also believe that the newer generations of hunters have a much clearer picture of what society expects from them as hunters.
We are evolving from an attitude of "by God, it is my RIGHT to go out and hunt and kill stuff,...and I'll do it how I damn well want to", to a new ethic of "I understand that I am granted the PRIVELEGE to hunt by a much larger majority of non-hunters that accept what I do only if I do so with an ethic that fits their expectations of how I am to act while hunting,...and how I am to treat the animals I hunt and harvest".
As for the future of hunting, if we as hunters do not weed out the first attitude and abide by the second , we will surely, at some point in the future, lose the PRIVELEGE we have to hunt.
B: All this good and wonderful because it is helping recruit new hunters and makes hunting more enjoyable.
Recognizing everything from A above, recruiting new hunters is the proverbial double-edged sword. Encouraging new hunters to start hunting only to try to preserve the hunting tradition is a mistake. Kids and adults that wade through all the distractions put in front of them and then make the decision that they WANT to become hunters are the kind we need.
Making hunters out of people that look at hunting only as a real-life video game with living targets is a very big mistake. It will only hasten our demise.
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I will argue the food plot thing a little bit. I have heard the premise of it helps the overall health of game animals and quite frankly I don't see it. Anytime you draw animals in and overpopulate the carrying capacity of the land its bad. I think far more damage than good is accomplished. I do believe improving natural habitat is good but that's about it. I guess to me I see the bottom line as being that most want to keep all the game animals to themselves and that wrong also. It's hurts the animals and it hurts hunting. Nothing can be effectively managed if it's stockpiled on someone's private preserve. And this is not jealousy speaking If I wanted to feed animals I would but I don't see long term benefit to it and I like the critters I kill to be organic and not full of GMO corn like most cattle. It's kinda like the fellow that claims he is only hunting "mature" deer only to pass on a 5 year old buck because he had a busted tine. It's pretty easy to see what he is truly after. And that's fine just don't call it something it isnt.
Agreed
I keep seeing people post, mad cause someone said something against food plots, then they go on for a paragraph or two about how much it helps wildlife and it’s not cheating. Then for some reason they post a second time and say they don’t hunt over the food plot lol. Same exact MO. I think hunting over a food plot is baiting plain and simple. If you plant food plots and don’t hunt over them that’s not baiting and I don’t think anyone is saying it is. But I find it hard to believe your planting and not hunting over them, and jealousy has nothing to do with it.
What everyone here should understand Turkey hunting is not just 3-4 Saturday mornings and a couple vacation days to some of us. My whole year job, finances etc are planned according to hunting turkeys. I hunt every single day all day for 7-8 weeks in several states each year living in a tent for most of it. Everything else is on pause until I’m done period. I understand most people don’t take it this serious but some do. If you want to be a dabbler or part timer have at it but when you come on a forum with serious dedicated Turkey hunters your going to hear there opinions when you cut corners. Nothing you could possibly say or post will change this no matter how many times you post a Fred Bear meme lol. There is a traditional way of hunting turkeys that hasn’t changed much since the beginning of modern Turkey hunting when only Mississippi,Alabama and Arkansas had a season long before decoys,or pop up blinds or plastic shotguns etc. Although not as many anymore were still here and you might as well stop getting hurt feelings because some of us couldn’t care any less about what you think
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When I first got on this ship, 1960's it was a Jon boat and we had a paddle. Now a lot of folks have moved up a notch or 10 to a Donzi with triple 350's on it, and all the electronics ( GPS etc) to go with it. I've been in the Donzi a handful of times. Just enough to remind me how much I love my jon boat and paddle. I admit I did add an electric trolling motor to help me get back upstream.
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In my neck of the woods it seems all Facebook does is bring to light the Haves and Havenots in this world. Most any local with a trophy being bragged over can mainly be traced back to the first day on Grandpappys farm. 364 remaining days of the year never a foot in the woods. Spotlight the night before and climb into their stand or spot of last years kill. To me this is the product of our forefathers "stayput" or coming of age and getting daddy's spot. Once that element is removed, majority couldn't tell you a fresh pile of droppings from a handful of raisins. Jealousy, I'll admit some sure but that I believe is what is doing the tradition in. An exclusive club. The ability to walk over miles of prime ground isn't here anymore. Too many posters and lack of sustainable habitat on our local public land.
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I pretty much agree with most of the post with a few tweaks here and there. Here is my breakdown.
1.) People make the choice how they do something, technology is only a tool.
2.) If you want a new person to do something a certain way then teach them the correct way. People usually approach something the way they were taught.
3) Hunter's numbers are declining, but we won't ever go away
4.) Access to land is a bigger problem
5.) Leasing of hunting rights is pushing more people out of the sport than how they do it
6.) We had slobs in the past and we'll have slobs in the future.
7.) I pretty much agree with all Gobblenut said and that worries me LOL
My take on food plots: They are not necessary and mostly just concentrate game. They do provide some benefit, but they are mostly an elaborate form of baiting. Yeah I know I'm in trouble! Nature usually provides plenty of food, if you want to enhance that then use habitat mngt. I have a friend who spent a fortune on food plots. Then I got him to start managing the habitat with select cutting travel lanes and more....he just told me a while back in the 40 years he's owned his land he's never seen so much game. He hasn't put a food plot out in years.
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I will argue the food plot thing a little bit. I have heard the premise of it helps the overall health of game animals and quite frankly I don't see it. Anytime you draw animals in and overpopulate the carrying capacity of the land its bad. I think far more damage than good is accomplished. I do believe improving natural habitat is good but that's about it. I guess to me I see the bottom line as being that most want to keep all the game animals to themselves and that wrong also. It's hurts the animals and it hurts hunting. Nothing can be effectively managed if it's stockpiled on someone's private preserve. And this is not jealousy speaking If I wanted to feed animals I would but I don't see long term benefit to it and I like the critters I kill to be organic and not full of GMO corn like most cattle. It's kinda like the fellow that claims he is only hunting "mature" deer only to pass on a 5 year old buck because he had a busted tine. It's pretty easy to see what he is truly after. And that's fine just don't call it something it isnt.
The long term benefit to the hunter from a food plot is that you end up with a few more birds, and the flocks remain fairly stable. For the birds themselves, having a food plot or two around buffers the birds from the boom and bust that nature usually presents. Around our place, we have cicadas-- at least 2 major broods. When there is a cicada brood emerging, a bunch of things happen:
1) More poults survive, because in the critical May/June time frame, they have this mass of big bugs to eat.
2) The cicadas prune the oak trees. Usually this means the acorn crop goes bust that fall.
3) The pruning causes more new growth in the oak trees, so the next year sees an acorn boom.
By having alternatives around the turkey numbers stay much more constant. That whole boom/bust things resonates for years. Some years, there seem to be no hens. Other years, there seems to be no gobblers. One year we had a plague of Jakes. Another year, we had so many 2 yr olds that they went gay on us. They stayed in single-sex flocks and would only display for each other and chased off all the hens. Probably all of these things trace back to the two cicada emergences that happen about 7-8 years apart around here.
Having good habitat management alleviates at least some of the pressures. Food plots are just one of the tools. Mind you, none of this involved hunting over food plots. The plots help out pre- and post- season.
I agree with you here!! I have never seen a negative impact from planting food plots. I mean I'm not that much into tv hunting but I don't think anyone could argue that Mark Drury or Lee Lakosky have overpopulation or unhealthy herds of deer or flocks of turkeys because of food plots and those guys definitely have the food plots.
I mean in the original post you quoted, the guy said something about food plots bringing in too many animals and overpopulating the carrying capacity. I mean if you recruit a lot of deer or turkeys to your plots and there are soo many they eat it till there is nothing left, I feel confident the animals will just leave and go find natural food like they are programmed to do
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Brings as I’ll be 28 this month and am ate up with most things outdoors, I’d like to chime in on this.
While I no longer feel that I’m one of the “young kids”, I’m definitely not far removed from it. I also apologize if this has been brought up, but I didn’t feel the need to read 3 pages about food plots.
I grew up in wyoming and still live here. For my 16th birthday (Birthday is on April 22nd) my dad asked me what I wanted to do. I wanted to go turkey hunt. Neither one of us had ever even seen a turkey I don’t think. But we went to the black hills because we had heard all about it. We drove around public land blowing on our crow calls and probably doing more harm than good. It’s legal to shoot turkeys with rifles and on the last day we found turkeys and killed them with rifles. We had a great time and were well within the law as we celebrated and high fived. Although I never heard any flack from it, I’m sure when I posted on forums there were plenty of people who didn’t think that was cool. Since then, I’ve spot and stalked birds, called birds in, ambushed em, and killed em about every way possible. I know I got flack for spot and stalking them instead of calling them in in my early years, but I enjoyed it, and again, I was well within the law.
Since then I’ve evolved and I hunt turkeys how I enjoy which is on public land, running and gunning, and trying to outwit any birds I can find. I go into my hunts full of enjoyment and a “great for you” attitude. I don’t think I’m high and mighty and I don’t pass judgement as long as its legal. My dad would rather sit in a blind all day, relax, and hope one walks by nowadays. That’s great! Some guys I know still shoot em with rifles, and while I don’t bring mine on trips anymore, that’s great! If some rancher shoots one out of his kitchen window I chuckle and say “that’s great!” When somebody says, “you’re going all the way to Iowa to kill a bird I say, “yes I really enjoy hunting them, and if you never want to go....THATS GREAT!”
We’ve got way too many problems in this world to be worried about how another person turkey hunts. If it’s against the law then that’s of course different. Hunt how you want to hunt and enjoy yourself. I’ve taken a lot of my friends on turkey hunts and they thought it was going to be a cake walk. Most of them don’t come anymore. Some of them that do would rather kill one with a rifle than go home empty handed. I’m not like that anymore, but that’s great!
I guess the point I’m trying to get across is, the hunting community would we a better place if when some young kid told you they went to the black hills and shot a gobbler with a rifle, that instead of giving them grief and telling them how you think it should be done, and how you do it now, you simply say....THATS GREAT!
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I think people are kind of loosing the premise of the conversation. This isn't about right or wrong or judgement. It is simply this. Are we replacing skill and hunting ability with technology and is modern hunting a good thing moving forward?
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I think people are kind of loosing the premise of the conversation. This isn't about right or wrong or judgement. It is simply this. Are we replacing skill and hunting ability with technology and is modern hunting a good thing moving forward?
all i know is growing up we didnt use blinds if u didnt stay still and bird or deer seen u u didnt get one and after wards u got ear full from the old man lol over all i think it made me a better hunter you learned the skills ,, we shot turkey with same 20 ga load we was using for squirrel hunting got a little old bumped and ( could carry that gun ) up to 12 ga ,,, we earned the right to go hunting if u couldnt hold a gun and shoot it u didnt go ,,,their was no tripods and just pull a trigger ,, food plots was the nearest corn field or old apple orchard what ever u hunted around and knew where the game was coming to that area lol ,,,,and sure i have bumped up to better shells and guns but what i was taught as a youngster stayed with me
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I think people are kind of loosing the premise of the conversation. This isn't about right or wrong or judgement. It is simply this. Are we replacing skill and hunting ability with technology and is modern hunting a good thing moving forward?
all i know is growing up we didnt use blinds if u didnt stay still and bird or deer seen u u didnt get one and after wards u got ear full from the old man lol over all i think it made me a better hunter you learned the skills ,, we shot turkey with same 20 ga load we was using for squirrel hunting got a little old bumped and ( could carry that gun ) up to 12 ga ,,, we earned the right to go hunting if u couldnt hold a gun and shoot it u didnt go ,,,their was no tripods and just pull a trigger ,, food plots was the nearest corn field or old apple orchard what ever u hunted around and knew where the game was coming to that area lol ,,,,and sure i have bumped up to better shells and guns but what i was taught as a youngster stayed with me
Well said Mike, I was raised the same way.
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I think people are kind of loosing the premise of the conversation. This isn't about right or wrong or judgement. It is simply this. Are we replacing skill and hunting ability with technology and is modern hunting a good thing moving forward?
I feel the whole premise is a bit whacked.
First off, turkey hunting in the modern age is a bit of a contrived affair. Unlike any other hunting sport, the hunter is deliberately handicapped to the point of near-impossibility. The reason? If all limitations were removed, turkeys would be extirpated in a few years. They aren't all that hard to kill. It's just that they're the hardest game on the North American continent if you follow the rules. This is nothing like "The Good Old Days" when, if you wanted a turkey for dinner, you'd open up the door of the cabin and shoot a turkey.
At the farm, I have turkeys in the yard all the time. I've had them come up to the window while I was taking a nap and peer through the screen. They are not all that hard to call either. #3 son called up a pair of gobblers on his own with a box call when he was 5.
What makes them worth hunting is all the limits we put on their hunting-- short seasons, limited firearm choices, etc. Me? I love it, but I'd be the first to tell you a lot of folks that I know that are good hunters wouldn't want to put up with the nonsense. A 3.5" shell has the recoil of an elephant gun. You go through all that rigamarole and what do you end up with? A 20 lb dead bird that's as tough as leather if you don't know how to cook it properly. I know guys that would blow $20K for an African Safari that wouldn't touch a turkey even if I paid for the tag.
Technology can boost success, but only to a point. Put an electronic caller into the hands of a novice, stick him in a pop-up blind, and give him some decoys, and he's probably not going to be successful, and I don't care how expensive a shotgun you give him, or how much he pays for the ammo. You can even put him next to a plot of fresh clover or a freshly plowed field-- ain't gonna happen.
So how is it that I consider turkey hunting the hardest thing I have to do in my life? Simple. Putting it all together and filling 2 tags is an all-consuming affair. I have to be 100% committed or else I'm not even close to being in the game. Nothing else requires that much concentration and perseverance.
The other thing that is whacked about the premise is that somehow plots and corn piles are somehow the same. One is legal. The other isn't. A plot gets you a few more birds, but they'll be out in the center of the field and too busy eating to pay attention to your calls. Bait piles for turkeys make it too easy to even call it hunting.
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This Ship is headed on a course chartered by the influential winds created by the lobbying power of sporting goods manufacturers and their influence on the State Game Commissions. The sails that power the " Ship " are woven from the moral fabric of the participants of this sport. So then, where is this ship headed ?
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I don't think anyone could argue that Mark Drury or Lee Lakosky have overpopulation or unhealthy herds of deer or flocks of turkeys because of food plots and those guys definitely have the food plots.
You don't think the massive outbreaks of EHD the Drury's experienced were more easily fueled by the high amount of deer attracted by their food? I don't have a thing against either of them but I do read a lot.
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Put an electronic caller into the hands of a novice, stick him in a pop-up blind, and give him some decoys, and he's probably not going to be successful, and I don't care how expensive a shotgun you give him, or how much he pays for the ammo.
I bet if you do that with my 8 year old boy his odds have risen considerably.
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Put an electronic caller into the hands of a novice, stick him in a pop-up blind, and give him some decoys, and he's probably not going to be successful, and I don't care how expensive a shotgun you give him, or how much he pays for the ammo.
I bet if you do that with my 8 year old boy his odds have risen considerably.
You might be right. However, our kids have us for models. I had two things to draw on in making that pronouncement:
1) The number of folks that have come out with me over the years. Their biggest problem overall is they can't sit still-- even adults.
2) My own experience getting into the sport. I had zero help from anyone knowledgeable until about 5 years in. All I had to go on were a couple of Ben Lee tapes and some magazine articles. I didn't even see a gobbler out hunting until a year before that. I didn't get a shot at one until almost a decade on, and I missed.
The last time I let turkey hunters on my place, it was two guys that had several years of hunting between them. They took off at 2 in the afternoon and came back before 5 all tuckered out. They had happened on a flock and spent the afternoon "runnin' and gunnin' 'em" -- whatever that meant. From their description, I think it meant they'd chased them all over the back half of the property.
There's an old saying: "I shot my first turkey today. It scared the snot out of the people in the frozen food section."
This all brings me back to my beef with the original proposition that turkey-related technology is bad for the sport. No, what's good for this sport is the fact that Kroger's carries turkey for under $.25/lb. As long as food remains affordable, we'll still be able to enjoy turkey hunting.
If this all was being done, because someone needed food on the table, then the world would be full of expert turkey hunters-- at least for a little while until the flocks were annihilated again.
I had some lousy neighbors a while back. They couldn't feed themselves or their kids; there were two houses on the road that had sunk into the worst depths of depravity. Eventually, they were all either evicted, sent to jail or died. The kids were sent to relatives and foster care. One of the trailers was bulldozed down the hill. However, before they left, they put a serious dent in all things living. We had a few seasons where nobody filled tags.
That's what happens when things go bad. Folks that grew up in the Depression used to talk about the woods being flat out empty-- not even songbirds or sparrows. Believe me, we are enjoying a Golden Age of turkey hunting whenever there are flocks to hunt. I, for one, have seen the "good old days" first hand. If folks are able to spend money on pop-ups, then things are good.
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I had some lousy neighbors a while back. They couldn't feed themselves or their kids; there were two houses on the road that had sunk into the worst depths of depravity. Eventually, they were all either evicted, sent to jail or died. The kids were sent to relatives and foster care. One of the trailers was bulldozed down the hill. However, before they left, they put a serious dent in all things living. We had a few seasons where nobody filled tags.
I have a different take on the topic of poaching. People that poach, no matter what their circumstances, do so because they want to, not because they have to. That is why we have the societal "safety nets" in this country. Those folks can get assistance if they want to. They don't because they want to have an excuse to poach.
Where I live, we have poor folks too,...but you don't see that crap because all of us look out for people doing that sh*t and report them. It is all a matter of the attitude of the people that live in the region. If you accept poachers, and let them slide, then they will poach,...and you will see just what you talk about.
Where I hunt on public lands that are interspersed with private holdings, out of hunting season, game animals rarely show indications that they are being poached. That is mainly because they are NOT being poached because the people that might consider doing so know that there are lots of eyes watching them,...eyes that are perfectly willing to turn them in to authorities.
You want to stop poaching, then change the attitudes of acceptance by those other folks around those that do it!
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I don't think anyone could argue that Mark Drury or Lee Lakosky have overpopulation or unhealthy herds of deer or flocks of turkeys because of food plots and those guys definitely have the food plots.
You don't think the massive outbreaks of EHD the Drury's experienced were more easily fueled by the high amount of deer attracted by their food? I don't have a thing against either of them but I do read a lot.
First off, plenty of land all in Missouri and Iowa that didn't plant food plots and their deer got hit by some EHD as well.
Second, deer are those guy's life and livelihood. I guarantee they are constantly talking with biologists on diseases among deer. If the biologists were saying that massive outbreaks of EHD were directly related to food plots versus natural browse, then Mark or Lee would stop planting or minimize food plots greatly and strategize other ways to attract deer. EHD does not distinguish between bucks and does, it kills both. Seeing that it kills big bucks, which is their livelihood, I just have a hard time believing they would keep planting as much as they do if it was threatening their livelihood. just my 2 cents
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Interesting observations gentlemen. Can't say as I agree with everything but it always good to have other viewpoints expressed. As much as I agree with the thought that hunting industry is hurting things I also have to be thankful that the taxes we pay on sporting items goes towards our wildlife. As far as Fatasseiuss retardus (the Latin definition for poacher) my only input that i have seen many in action and for the most part they are selfish, lazy and without morals, caring only for what they want and willing to destroy everything around them as long as they get what they want. I have known one or two exceptions to this rule. But they were the shoot a deer or two off the back porch for meat type and to be honest while I will never condone their activities, they have a higher moral standard than most people these days.
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Please don't confuse me with someone who condones poaching for any reason.
My point was simply that once you have people motivated to take turkeys outside the rules, it doesn't take long for there to be no turkeys.
Just so you know it wasn't just illegal take that was the problem. These folks caused all sorts of problems. One of them was that one of the guys would try to raise dogs for money. He'd get himself a couple of dogs and breed them, and then try to sell the puppies. Most people didn't want them, so he'd just stop feeding them. Within short order we had large packs of wild dogs roaming the farm.
The adolescent boy liked to shoot deer out the window with his 22 and then let them lay. He was doing it just because he was bored. One of the clan used to hunt to fill other people's freezers for cash.
This was just an outright, in-your-face, fuster-cluck. At one point, the kids were breaking into my place and other houses on the road just to steal can goods.
I complained bitterly about all this to the authorities-- illegal hunting was not the worst of it. Very little was done until the patriarch died and the land passed to an oldest son. He came in and threw everyone out. It's taken him 8 years to rehab one of the houses. The other trailer he just bulldozed.
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If you accept poachers, and let them slide, then they will poach,...and you will see just what you talk about.
Spot on! When I bought my farm the road was known for a deer spotting hotbed. Since I worked for the Division of Wildlife and a Wildlife logo was often seen parked on my land word got out. Also after a few conversations with the neighbors we decided the sh#t was going to stop on our road. Since there are no connecting roads for at least a mile one way and 5 miles another we could block them in. My house sets high on the hill overlooking the killing fields. When someone shot at least three people would be on the move if we heard it and we'd close the road off. It only took catching 2-3 and all the Sh#t stopped. Still to this day the deer stand and watch you drive by. I overheard a conversation in a coffee shop one day between some out of area hunters and a local scum bag talking about shining deer. The non locals said something about my road and the local said don't go down there those locals will hang your as# and one of them is a game warden (i was not a game warden, but they thought I was ). So I agree you can stop it. I've had a few test their luck over the years, but to my knowledge none of them ever got a deer out of the hollow. They shot a few, but they never got to pick them up. You live with what you allow.
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Good OL Fred(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190309/1c257508794f83b12d0e5c7e3a8f6449.jpg)
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I don't think anyone could argue that Mark Drury or Lee Lakosky have overpopulation or unhealthy herds of deer or flocks of turkeys because of food plots and those guys definitely have the food plots.
You don't think the massive outbreaks of EHD the Drury's experienced were more easily fueled by the high amount of deer attracted by their food? I don't have a thing against either of them but I do read a lot.
Deer don't get EHD from food or through being around other deer.
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So an insect that infects a deer. Then causes other insects to obtain the virus by biting said deer don't have a way worse effect in a densely populated area. Learn something new every day.
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If Fred Bear were alive today. . .
. . . he'd still be really mad at the guys who tried shove him that crematory oven.
I'm just saying.
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So an insect that infects a deer. Then causes other insects to obtain the virus by biting said deer don't have a way worse effect in a densely populated area. Learn something new every day.
"EHD, or epizootic hemorrhagic disease, is one of the deadliest natural disease a whitetail deer may encounter.
EHD is much more common in wet years, such as the one we have had this year. The carriers are midges, mites, and mosquitos which are much more common during these conditions."
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/learn-ehd-drury-outdoors-video/
Said insects would be in more abundance in the conditions spoken on in the article"
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Our area is prone to EHD. It hits every so often when it's really dry. Both deer and cattle get it, but the cattle are able to deal with it. It comes from a midge that can only exist in hot, dry, windless conditions. The midge lives right at the water's edge. Normally, deer do not come to water to drink. They get their water off the leaves. However, when it's hot and dry, they'll go to water. They go to a nearby pond, drink, and allow the midge to bite them. Later, when the flu-like symptoms hit, they try to alleviate the fever by standing in the water. They die. The midge feasts on the carcass and the cycle repeats.
EHD incidence has nothing to do with crowding or food plots. It has everything to do with extreme drought and the proximity of deer and cattle.
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So if 2 Deer come to the pond and get infected. Go out and wander around to other locations for two or three days before they find a pond or creek to die in it is going to have the same effect of spreading the disease as 20 deer coming to the same pond? I am sorry but that makes no sense. Fire is not spread by spacing wood apart. It is spread by bunching it together. Over a large area. We can agree to disagree and no hard feelings but any time cause wild animals to congregate in an area at high population levels the potential for bad things to happen rises.
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I'll butt in and try to settle this for you guys. One of you is talking about "cause" and the other is talking about "affect", or more specifically, spread of the disease related to time. Both of you are correct in what you are talking about, but you are talking about two different things.
...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
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...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
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...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
Oh,...Okay,...that clears it up for me. We can always rely on you to make things clear as mud... ;D :toothy12:
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The midges are always there. It just takes the right conditions for them to infect a deer. Given those circumstances, deer get infected no matter what the density. However, more deer, more infections.
This is not an artifact of too many deer any more than you can claim athelete's foot is caused by too many atheletes.
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...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
Oh,...Okay,...that clears it up for me. We can always rely on you to make things clear as mud... ;D :toothy12:
Ohhh,...and by the way, I see you've moved to Georgia. ...They finally ran you out of Alabama, huh?...
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...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
I think that ship was a Donzi, we blew the engine and we have to teach the deer to paddle.
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...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
Oh,...Okay,...that clears it up for me. We can always rely on you to make things clear as mud... ;D :toothy12:
Ohhh,...and by the way, I see you've moved to Georgia. ...They finally ran you out of Alabama, huh?...
Still have property in Alabama. Decided to move to Georgia to see if those Bama turkeys are harder to kill as a non-resident.
...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
I think that ship was a Donzi, we blew the engine and we have to teach the deer to paddle.
Should have loaded the boat with ducks and geese. They make better paddlers because of the webbed feet.
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Guesswho I see the Glades Legend has tagged out today. I’m surprised it took him a week. Typically it’s the second or third day. Lol. I wonder where all he’s off to this year. He hits it hard every year. Bubba
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He has several western states lined up. Even going to hit Bama if he can squeeze it in.
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He has several western states lined up. Even going to hit Bama if he can squeeze it in.
That settles it. This ship is headed to BAMA. allABOARD!! any tickets left, I’m in.
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...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
Oh,...Okay,...that clears it up for me. We can always rely on you to make things clear as mud... ;D :toothy12:
Ohhh,...and by the way, I see you've moved to Georgia. ...They finally ran you out of Alabama, huh?...
Killing me GobbleNut....lol
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I've got my own boat. It sails where I want.
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...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
I still don’t see how Fred Bear was envolved in the cover up? I think it’s fake news
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Page 108 in The Old Pro Turkey Hunter needs to be read by every hunter....
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:popcorn:
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:whip2:
:popcorn:
I think your eating popcorn emoji is stuck lol or maybe it’s your go-to response for every post
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...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
I still don’t see how Fred Bear was envolved in the cover up? I think it’s fake news
Wouldn't surprise me if the gubment was involved in his death for his part in all of this.
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Whew... 7 pages and now I’m tired. Lol
Fun topic of discussion. I think it’s hard to pump the brakes on modern technology the way we all would like to, or agree to.
Are we losing “skills and effort required to become good hunters by substituting technology”... maybe, maybe not. When I’m hunting with my 25 year old son, I would often “reminisce” about the good old days, before Gore-tex, merino wool underwear, weather apps on smartphones with real-time radar, thermocell, etc. etc. He’s not all that impressed...ha.
My son is an accomplished hunter, that understands ethics and effort. He can sit dark to dark on a deer hunt, walk miles or sit hours on a turkey hunt. When he first started hunting, I didn’t make him wear brown cotton duck pants with Kmart cotton “thermal” longjohns in a 35 degree rain just because I did.
I think the answer to the question is found inside the hunter, and not the technology. But as so many have previously stated, we need to foster that ideology as much as possible. And while we’re at it... can we all agree to start smacking phones out of the hands of people that walk, talk, or otherwise should be engaged with living people in public places?
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4.) Access to land is a bigger problem
5.) Leasing of hunting rights is pushing more people out of the sport than how they do it
My take on food plots: They are not necessary and mostly just concentrate game. They do provide some benefit, but they are mostly an elaborate form of baiting. Yeah I know I'm in trouble! Nature usually provides plenty of food, if you want to enhance that then use habitat mngt. I have a friend who spent a fortune on food plots. Then I got him to start managing the habitat with select cutting travel lanes and more....he just told me a while back in the 40 years he's owned his land he's never seen so much game. He hasn't put a food plot out in years.
#4 & #5, spot on accurate!! :icon_thumright: As a guy who grew up hunting in Florida, I know that for a fact!!
- Between the overdevelopment by contractors, coupled with so many people moving here, there is less and less land to lease every year. I can take you to places I hunted as a young man that are now sprawling developments without a tree in sight.
- Then the state adds to the problem by buying up hundreds of thousands of acres of land, and declaring it closed to hunting while opening it up for bikers, hikers and equestrians to recreate on for free. >:(
- The final straw that breaks the camel's back is the owners of what little land is left to be leased are bombarded by outfitters, as well as doctors, lawyers and other types of wealthy businessmen. They are quickly educated on the value of their land, and they have no problem getting it!! I know of many leases that cost the members $5,000, $10,000 or even more per year. Then the outfitters offer the landowners their fair share of the $1,500 to $2,500 per bird that I've seen many outfitters charge for Osceolas. An average Joe, like me, just can't afford those prices to hunt.
I understand your take on food plots Eggshell. We use them for deer, but not turkeys on our lease in SC. As leaseholders, we don't have the freedom like your friend did. The owner manages for tree production, and will not allow controlled burns or cutting of his trees. So we plant food plots instead. Our deer routinely come to them, but mostly at night. Mature bucks only come to them at night, except for the occasional daytime slip up during the rut. Only about 1/4 of our stands overlook food plots, and we don't hunt them often. Most of our stands are in the woods or overlooking clearcuts, and the vast majority of our deer are not taken on food plots. The main reason we do food plots, and mineral licks, is to give the deer the extra nutrition they need during the summer to grow bigger antlers, and grow larger deer, bucks and does. The second reason is to help the deer make it through the winter by planting winter food plots to give them quality food and good nutrition year round, even when we are not hunting them. If that's bad and we're cheating, then, well, I guess we are guilty. ;) Guilty of caring about our herd, and wanting to do all we can to improve our hunting opportunities. :z-twocents:
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We’ve got way too many problems in this world to be worried about how another person turkey hunts. If it’s against the law then that’s of course different. Hunt how you want to hunt and enjoy yourself. I’ve taken a lot of my friends on turkey hunts and they thought it was going to be a cake walk. Most of them don’t come anymore. Some of them that do would rather kill one with a rifle than go home empty handed. I’m not like that anymore, but that’s great!
That is a GREAT attitude!! I love it!! :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:
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I think people are kind of loosing the premise of the conversation. This isn't about right or wrong or judgement. It is simply this. Are we replacing skill and hunting ability with technology and is modern hunting a good thing moving forward?
To answer your first question, NO!! We are not!!
You can drive a big, beautiful 4 wheel drive truck, towing a camo Bad Boy Buggy, headed for your high dollar lease with chufa plots, and go into the woods wearing hundreds of dollars of camos, carrying Cally Morris decoys to put outside of your Double Bull blind, and the most expensive calls to go along with your $1,500 shotgun that shoots $10 a round loads.
You're still not going to kill a bunch of turkeys with that money and technology. You'd better have some patience, some good woodsmanship, and have a good knowledge of turkey behavior, especially the ones where you hunt due to many hours of you scouting your land. Most of that comes from growing up being mentored by somebody that did have patience, woodsmanship and knowledge, and cared enough to teach it to you.
Your second question is beyond our ability to control. Hunting, unfortunately has become about the almighty dollar. Therefore hunting technology is going to grow in leaps and bounds. Some of it good, some not so much. But it's going to happen, regardless of what any of us thinks. Ain't nothing we can do about that. As long as someone can make a buck selling the latest and greatest gadget of the moment, it will always be with us and impact hunting.
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Good OL Fred(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190309/1c257508794f83b12d0e5c7e3a8f6449.jpg)
You must have gotten a chuckle making that meme!! ;D
I don't agree, nor would Fred, but that was funny. Thanks for the laugh!! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
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...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
Leave it to Ronnie to break the tension with a good ole belly laugh!!! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
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If Fred Bear were alive today. . .
. . . he'd still be really mad at the guys who tried shove him that crematory oven.
I'm just saying.
You guys are killing me!!! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
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Good OL Fred(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190309/1c257508794f83b12d0e5c7e3a8f6449.jpg)
You must have gotten a chuckle making that meme!! ;D
I don't agree, nor would Fred, but that was funny. Thanks for the laugh!! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
How do you make a meme?? Fred Bear said it ...it’s right there on the picture
It’s real simple ....if hunting over food plots, decoys, pop up blinds etc. don’t make it easier to kill a Turkey then why are people doing it? You’d have to be a complete idiot to pay the prices some pay for the realistic decoys and high dollar pop up blinds if it didn’t increase your chances.
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Bingo! someone finally mentions what I have been thinking. We rarely here about population growth and the lack of land to hunt being a huge issue in the decades to come. It hasn't hit a lot of you guys out west and the upper north.. but it will. All of us in Florida already know. 325 million in the U.S. now, how is that going to look in 50 years?
We already read post on here everyday talking about public land in all the southern states - you can bet half the comments will mention the number of other hunters, too much pressure, etc.
I can't imagine how opening day on Florida public land will look in 30 years.
May not be an issue in the end because as mentioned, this ever leaning left society we live in will just get continue to grow. Florida and Texas are just barley still RED states.. once we lose those two.. say good night!
#4 & #5, spot on accurate!! :icon_thumright: As a guy who grew up hunting in Florida, I know that for a fact!!
- Between the overdevelopment by contractors, coupled with so many people moving here, there is less and less land to lease every year. I can take you to places I hunted as a young man that are now sprawling developments without a tree in sight.
- Then the state adds to the problem by buying up hundreds of thousands of acres of land, and declaring it closed to hunting while opening it up for bikers, hikers and equestrians to recreate on for free. >:(
- The final straw that breaks the camel's back is the owners of what little land is left to be leased are bombarded by outfitters, as well as doctors, lawyers and other types of wealthy businessmen. They are quickly educated on the value of their land, and they have no problem getting it!! I know of many leases that cost the members $5,000, $10,000 or even more per year. Then the outfitters offer the landowners their fair share of the $1,500 to $2,500 per bird that I've seen many outfitters charge for Osceolas. An average Joe, like me, just can't afford those prices to hunt.
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Thanks for the thoughts RutNstrutt, there are cases where food plots are a game changer, but in most areas not so much.
To return to the original topic, is technology replacing skill levels....I'm really not sure. I think for some it makes a big difference and for others not so much. Heck I remember when I saw my first diaphragm mouth call ( that would be about 1974 ) and I couldn't buy one fast enough. A guy named Lew McClure made and sold them. I actually got to know him and sold his calls for years. I was the first in my area to use them....well there was all of three people who turkey hunted. So I can't say I'm against it and it does enhance our chances. We all integrate things into our hunting that we view as tools that will make us more successful or comfortable. Ultimately skill in using those tools equal success. Unless we're out there in buckskins, calling with our voice and using pioneer weapons we're using modern tech. I'd be willing to bet native and early Americans killed turkeys any way you can imagine, it's different when your really killing to stay alive. Hey, if I could get one of those Star Trek transporters I'd use the heck out of it. Beam to that gobbler Scotty! surprise :fud: :OGani:
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Truth is the reason we don't use Flint locks is because something more efficient came along. Then the muzzleloader was replaced by the cartage. The single shot by the repeater. Technology evolves efficiency. Diaphragm calls aren't washers and condoms anymore. So yes as time marches on so will the efficiency of the weapons we hunt with.
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If Fred Bear were alive today. . .
. . . he'd still be really mad at the guys who tried shove him that crematory oven.
I'm just saying.
You guys are killing me!!! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Funny, that's what Fred said!
Up here in the Trans-Bluegrass, food plots are the least of our worries.
You all talk about loss of habitat and loss of hunting land.
I've got my own 200 Acres. However, how I got it is indicative of how things are changing. The family I bought from had been on the land since settlement. When I got there, the land had been for sale for several years and had not been worked for almost 20 years. For the longest time, the old lady had given permission to hunt to anyone who asked. When I took possession, everyone treated it as an unofficial WMA.
I put the clamps on right away. I restricted access to just my family. I put up signs. I chased off poachers. The process took about 3 years all told.
That's how a lot of land in the state is going. I'm going to move there in a few years when I retire .
Here's something I see or more rather hear. When I first got on the land, the Opener had lots of shots being taken. In recent years the number of shots has dwindled. On the other hand, the number of turkeys taken on the Opener and for the season as a whole has increased. The number of shots at other times of the season have also gone way down.
1) It could be, I'm going deaf, but I don't think that's the case.
2) There are fewer birds taken in my part of the county, but they're doing better elsewhere.
3) There may be fewer hunters around my neck of the woods.
I don't know. What I do know is that the overall trend for the county and the region are trending slightly upwards after dwindling for the better part of the previous decade. It could be that the habitat is changing, and as all these fallow farms age, they're becoming less productive for turkeys.
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...Now, what was the original post about again?.... ;D :toothy12:
If there was a ship load of deer, and EHD broke out, what was the cause and affect? And what role did the Drury's play?
Leave it to Ronnie to break the tension with a good ole belly laugh!!! :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Tense? No sir, I am way less tense than Tiffany Lakosky on an elevator.
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I believe it was Dan Infalt who said that 10% of hunters kill 90% of game. I know he's mainly a deer hunter, but I think this applies across the board. I like to think that those 10% are the good woodsmen, who become part of the woods, as opposed to an intruder in them.
In my opinion, no technology can expedite the process of becoming a good woodsman. It takes time, patience, and an insatiable will to learn every time you are in the woods, and a good mentor never hurts either. As a matter of fact, I would say that when this new technology is used as a crutch, it severely limits the ability to become a better hunter. ("Scent Control" technology for deer hunting instead of knowing how to play the wind; plopping a decoy down 15 yards in front of you instead of being sure to have a good setup)
I'm only 24, and have so much to learn when it comes to being a woodsman and hunter, but I have gotten to the point where I feel like I am more part of the woods, and it is almost a spiritual experience every time I go. Success rates aside, I feel sorry for the people who were introduced to the idea that only gizmos, gadgets, and kill rates were what is important instead of becoming students of the outdoors. Hopefully, shows like the Hunting Public and Pinhoti Project, which get away from the advertisement heavy cable shows, will help show people there is a different way to hunt. We as hunters play a big part of that as well. Personally, I know I can do a better job of trying to share my love of the outdoors with others.
At only 24 years old you are very wise beyond your years. There's a lot of people twice your age who still don't get it.
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Truth is the reason we don't use Flint locks is because something more efficient came along. Then the muzzleloader was replaced by the cartage. The single shot by the repeater. Technology evolves efficiency. Diaphragm calls aren't washers and condoms anymore. So yes as time marches on so will the efficiency of the weapons we hunt with.
Truth....
Just like a gun..... It's not the technology that's evil. It's the nut behind the tool that uses it in the right or wrong way.
That being said, I turkey hunt for the experience. Sometimes I win, but most of the time he wins and that's OK. Getting the quick and easy kill doesn't build the experience or the memory. I liken the experience of turkey hunting to climbing Mt Everest with respect to Yvon Chouinard's quote about the whole experience of Mt Everest.
“Taking a trip for six months, you get in the rhythm of it. It feels like you can go on forever doing that. Climbing Everest is the ultimate and the opposite of that. Because you get these high-powered plastic surgeons and CEOs, and you know, they pay $80,000 and have Sherpas put the ladders in place and 8,000 feet of fixed ropes and you get to the camp and you don’t even have to lay out your sleeping bag. It’s already laid out with a chocolate mint on the top. The whole purpose of planning something like Everest is to effect some sort of spiritual and physical gain and if you compromise the process, you’re an asshole when you start out and you’re an asshole when you get back.”
He also said....... “You learn that how you got there was what’s important. Not what you accomplished.”
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Lot of good thoughts. I honestly wonder when the native Americans first got their hands on firearms if their hunting got a Lil sloppy. I bet it did. And to be honest I am a product of my generation to an extent. And yes I am not big on change. This isn't a rant just an observation. As long as I can hunt the way I deem sporting then all is well. Someone else's hunt is their business. I just hope we never loose sight of the fact that hunting is meant to be a challenge and a chance to hold on to something that has been around as long as we have existed. This is not about an image or how we look on tweeter.
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I have sorta kept up with this thread and get a chuckle when folks talk about technology and are against it. What they really mean is they are against anything newer than when they were taught how to hunt. It makes you feel more sporting and like you are special. It would be interesting to hear from some real old timers about what they thought of you guys that think you are old time turkey hunters. Reminds me of my Great Uncle back in the early 70s that thought we were idiots for deer hunting. He used to say when he was a pup and they wanted a deer they grabbed a flashlight and sat in the loft of their barn and shot one - it was a harvest, not a hunt and the thought of chasing deer for sport was odd to him. It is all about perspective. My son and nephews think anyone that would turkey hunt without a Thermacell would be crazy, cause they don't recall the days before they were around.
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As much as technology has increased in hunting over the years.... I try to embrace both the traditional as well as technology. I was the first one in my family that had a rifled barrel on their shotgun for deer hunting. But I was also the first to use a bow or muzzleloader. While I have a 7 mm magnum with a 3-15 power scope- I would typically grab my grandfathers 1953 Savage 99 and head out deer hunting. I feel that everyone goes through stages in their hunting time.... and technology is part of the stages. Now- taking my kids and paying respect to those who taught me (taking guns of theirs or going to woods I used to hunt with them) is an important part of the hunt.
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I’m not sure how Charles L Jordan killed his last turkey but he writes at length about a few in his journal which McIlhinny used to write the book. He hunted La in the Spring used no decoy, no blind no food plots and used a bamboo yelper(trumpet) to call the Gobbler into range and shot him with a rifle.
My last Gobbler in La was killed in the Spring without decoys, blinds, or food plots and I used a wooden Trumpet yelper to call him to 30 yards and killed him with a shotgun.
The only differences are he used a rifle and wore a grey or brown wool suit.
I used a shotgun and wore camouflage.
Jordan died in 1909 I don’t know how much older school Turkey hunter your going to find than that. Not everybody is chasing the latest fad or trying to make it easier.
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We, thank God, have the freedom to choose the way we pursue this wonderful gift of Nature. We can't keep up with technology, but we don't have to use it if we prefer to go old school. I know people from 5 to 95 who own cell phones. And I know one real up close and personal like that will tell you if you take one afield without putting it at least on vibrate it can ruin a big Tom Turkey hunt inside of 90 yards!
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I’m not sure how Charles L Jordan killed his last turkey but he writes at length about a few in his journal which McIlhinny used to write the book. He hunted La in the Spring used no decoy, no blind no food plots and used a bamboo yelper(trumpet) to call the Gobbler into range and shot him with a rifle.
My last Gobbler in La was killed in the Spring without decoys, blinds, or food plots and I used a wooden Trumpet yelper to call him to 30 yards and killed him with a shotgun.
The only differences are he used a rifle and wore a grey or brown wool suit.
I used a shotgun and wore camouflage.
Jordan died in 1909 I don’t know how much older school Turkey hunter your going to find than that. Not everybody is chasing the latest fad or trying to make it easier.
Read Frederick Gerstacker's memoir-- much earlier. Gerstacker hunted with a double-barrel flinter. One barrel was rifled and loaded with ball. The other was smooth and loaded with shot. He hunted everything with it. This was in the 1830's and early 40's He spent 5 years hunting all up and down the Ohio and Mississippi, but mostly in Arkansas.
Gerstacker killed most of his turkeys by standing underneath them on the roost.
An even earlier account of taking turkey was by Mishack Browning. However, the bulk of his writing concerned deer and bear.
This was all shooting the birds for food. There wasn't much sport in it. McIlhinny is the first record I've seen of folks calling turkeys.
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before we go to far in glorifying the old-timers, remember this was also the generation that cut our forest down to bare ground for miles upon miles. They hunted game to near extinction, they invented such things as punt guns and slaughtered buffalo juts for a hide and it's tongue (and to starve the American Indian). Technology comes in many forms, including the tools and methods of modern conservation. These tools do not make us necessarily less skilled or lazy, they simply change our approach and efficiency. As many have said it's at what level you want to experience your hunt your choice as to how you use the tools
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As I said on my first post on this thread, the whole idea of modern turkey hunting resembling the good old days is completely whacked.
It's a fairly common phenomenon.
What we think of "Merry Olde Englande" is a fiction developed by Victorians. Modern interpretations of King Arthur, Ivanhoe, and Robin Hood, and our modern Renaissance Festivals, are completely fictional. It just wasn't like that back then.
What we think of as Bluegrass music is a fairly new phenomenon. It all started when folks came North to work in the factories. They wanted a sound that reminded them of back home.
We probably are living in the Golden Age of Turkey Hunting. We are making the myth as we go along.
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Here's a question to ponder?
Who's the "better" sportsman? ...The guy who uses all the latest gadgets, kills a gobbler or two each spring, and leaves the rest in the name of conservation or not being a "game hog"? ...Or the "traditional" guy who uses nothing but a call, but has the attitude that he is going to kill every single gobbler that he calls in every spring,...limits, conservation, and concern for fellow sportsmen (or the well-being of the turkey population) be damned?
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...Or the "traditional" guy who uses nothing but a call, but has the attitude that he is going to kill every single gobbler that he calls in every spring,...limits, conservation, and concern for fellow sportsmen (or the well-being of the turkey population) be damned?
This guy seldom holds it to just birds he called in. I call them tally masters. All they want is to brag about their kills. To some extent a lot of hunters go through this as they feel they need some validation. I think it matters who mentored them, if anyone. It's called principles. This hunter will kill any bird that appears in range anytime anywhere anyway! He still considers himself a sportsman because he generally obeys game laws and limits, but will occasionally commit a transgression. They will jump property lines and crowd other hunters and then go to the local gathering place and extol the virtues of a good hunt, but they never forget their "Tally". I will confess I had to learn some of these principles through my youth, but aging has brought me more wisdom. I'll tell you how you know when your dealing with a sportsman. when you pull into a WMA parking lot at the same time as another hunter and there is a bird just hammering away up on the ridge. He was actually pulling in first, but as you get out and say, "man that bird is ready to die". He turns and says, go kill him, I'll set here and listen to the hunt". That guy may have all the gadgets you can imagine or he may not, but the one thing he has that is as old as time is integrity!
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Here's a question to ponder?
Who's the "better" sportsman? ...The guy who uses all the latest gadgets, kills a gobbler or two each spring, and leaves the rest in the name of conservation or not being a "game hog"? ...Or the "traditional" guy who uses nothing but a call, but has the attitude that he is going to kill every single gobbler that he calls in every spring,...limits, conservation, and concern for fellow sportsmen (or the well-being of the turkey population) be damned?
I will answer hunter A is the better sportsman. But I will up the ante by putting forth the notion that hunter B will be more likely to pass on birds that they could legally kill.
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Here's a question to ponder?
Who's the "better" sportsman? ...The guy who uses all the latest gadgets, kills a gobbler or two each spring, and leaves the rest in the name of conservation or not being a "game hog"? ...Or the "traditional" guy who uses nothing but a call, but has the attitude that he is going to kill every single gobbler that he calls in every spring,...limits, conservation, and concern for fellow sportsmen (or the well-being of the turkey population) be damned?
Just because someone has learned to hunt and is able to kill his limit that doesn’t make him a game hog. Sounds like something a jealous person would say. Aren’t y’all the same ones preaching if it’s legal it’s ok. So if some goofball needs a wheel barrel full of decoys and blinds to go sit over a chuffa patch or tote a fan and lurk along field edges and struggles to kill one every other year he’s a better sportsman than someone that killed there limit in 4 states( limits set by that state) and hunts according to the same rules that have been in place since the 1900’s?
Those gadgeteers aren’t leaving gobblers in the name of conservation there doing it because they can’t hunt without the crutches and the crutches don’t always work
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I went back and read the original question.
A: Are we loosing the skills and effort required to become good hunters by substituting technology, as well as new practices such as food plots and feeders.
A simple test would answer that, and probably won't ever be conducted, at least on a large scale. I know results would vary from participant to participant. But take a guy like myself who has done this a while and is somewhat of a minimalist, call, gun, camo and a rangefinder. The rangefinder is more to keep me entertained because my mind tends to wander. Then take a guy who prefers to use all the latest gadgets. Blind, flock of high dollar decoys, cell phone, $$$$ shotgun, $10 shells, food plot, feeder, etc. Then make the two hunters swap tools. Who on average would have the skills to be more successful using the other guys tools and methods? Like I mentioned, I know there are exceptions. I may be wrong in my thinking, but I have a feeling I know which group would use his acquired skills to adapt to the other hunters methods quicker.
P.S. I never try to degrade anyone, in anything. I do my thing and don't give a rat's A fifty five how anyone else hunts. And if someone wants to label me an elitist, I can live with that!
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Like a lot of you, I’ve been hunting for a long time, about 50 yrs. I hunt all different ways-bow, crossbow, gun, with and without blinds and decoys.
I look at this like the bow vs crossbow debate. When someone says they shot a deer during archery, I ask “with Bow or crossbow”. I don’t say anything else, because they’re happy with their results. It means something different to me which they used. I’m not going to tell them they should have used a bow because it’s more it takes more skill but I certainly know it does.
If I shoot a gobbler from a blind with decoys it’s a different experience than slipping around through the woods. Both are fun and both are legal. I get more satisfaction with the latter just like I get more satisfaction with bow, but both are fun.
There’s not right or wrong as long as it’s legal and you’re having fun.
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I went back and read the original question.
A: Are we loosing the skills and effort required to become good hunters by substituting technology, as well as new practices such as food plots and feeders.
A simple test would answer that, and probably won't ever be conducted, at least on a large scale. I know results would vary from participant to participant. But take a guy like myself who has done this a while and is somewhat of a minimalist, call, gun, camo and a rangefinder. The rangefinder is more to keep me entertained because my mind tends to wander. Then take a guy who prefers to use all the latest gadgets. Blind, flock of high dollar decoys, cell phone, $$$$ shotgun, $10 shells, food plot, feeder, etc. Then make the two hunters swap tools. Who on average would have the skills to be more successful using the other guys tools and methods? Like I mentioned, I know there are exceptions. I may be wrong in my thinking, but I have a feeling I know which group would use his acquired skills to adapt to the other hunters methods quicker.
P.S. I never try to degrade anyone, in anything. I do my thing and don't give a rat's A fifty five how anyone else hunts. And if someone wants to label me an elitist, I can live with that!
That about sums it up
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Ttt
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Here's a question to ponder?
Who's the "better" sportsman? ...The guy who uses all the latest gadgets, kills a gobbler or two each spring, and leaves the rest in the name of conservation or not being a "game hog"? ...Or the "traditional" guy who uses nothing but a call, but has the attitude that he is going to kill every single gobbler that he calls in every spring,...limits, conservation, and concern for fellow sportsmen (or the well-being of the turkey population) be damned?
The point of my question is that being a "good" turkey hunter goes beyond traditional turkey hunting skills or the use of gadgetry. There is also a such thing as "attitude". Personally, I am more impressed with the guy who is conservation-minded, but perhaps less-skilled, than I am with the guy whose goal is to kill every turkey he can to raise himself to some fictional level of prowess.
Hate to tell you this folks, but turkey huntin' ain't rocket science. Anybody that wants to dedicate the time and effort to do so can become a good turkey hunter,...with or without the gadgetry. Some folks just have other priorities in their lives that are more important to them. As long as they have the right "attitude", I am fine with them killing turkeys the way they want to. To me, the ingredients found in the "right attitude" are composed by a lot more than the way one chooses to hunt turkeys. :icon_thumright:
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I went back and read the original question.
A: Are we loosing the skills and effort required to become good hunters by substituting technology, as well as new practices such as food plots and feeders.
A simple test would answer that, and probably won't ever be conducted, at least on a large scale. I know results would vary from participant to participant. But take a guy like myself who has done this a while and is somewhat of a minimalist, call, gun, camo and a rangefinder. The rangefinder is more to keep me entertained because my mind tends to wander. Then take a guy who prefers to use all the latest gadgets. Blind, flock of high dollar decoys, cell phone, $$$$ shotgun, $10 shells, food plot, feeder, etc. Then make the two hunters swap tools. Who on average would have the skills to be more successful using the other guys tools and methods? Like I mentioned, I know there are exceptions. I may be wrong in my thinking, but I have a feeling I know which group would use his acquired skills to adapt to the other hunters methods quicker.
P.S. I never try to degrade anyone, in anything. I do my thing and don't give a rat's A fifty five how anyone else hunts. And if someone wants to label me an elitist, I can live with that!
This should be required reading.
Always hearing about how dumb turkeys are and how small there brain is and how easy it is to hunt them. I’ve never known anyone that has killed a lot of gobblers say that. And I wonder why some people spend so much money on so many crutches to kill an easy dumb bird?
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I don’t know what you would consider a lot of gobblers. Some have killed hundreds, some have killed none. I’ve killed about 30 and I say they are dumb as a box of rocks. Put a fan in front of your face, crawl up to him and shoot him. Stick a close hanger in the ground, put a red sock on it and wait for him to come run off the other “turkey “. Turkeys do whatever they want whenever they want. I’ve hunted the same turkey for two weeks before. Tried everything in the book to get him to come. Then one day I go to the same place with the same call and he just comes right over in 2 minutes. Why was this smart turkey so stupid that day? Did I outsmart him? It had nothing to do with smart, it had to do with him doing whatever he wanted whenever he wanted. On the right day in the right place the “smartest” turkey on the planet will go to anything that sounds like it might be a turkey. Killing turkeys takes skill but not smarts. Otherwise I’d be shafted. So next time you call and he don’t come, don’t think you’ve been outsmarted and don’t run to the store and buy a bunch of stuff. Find another one or try him another day. He ain’t smarter than you.
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I don’t consider 30 a lot.
I find it humorous there’s guys on here with 50 years experience and no telling how many Gobblers and some maybe kill on every other year but feel they have the same level of abilities and give freely of there unlimited knowledge lol.
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Then one day I go to the same place with the same call and he just comes right over in 2 minutes.
uhhh that's the day he has no hens and probably hasn't seen a hen for a day or two, or he's just really horny that day. I think a lot of human males have got themselves in serious trouble just from being a little too horny! :drool: That's why you stay with them, that day will eventually come. I don't think they are particularly smart, but they have very keen senses and survival instincts.
Oh and if your still counting you ain't killed enough....I couldn't tell you a number because I don't know and frankly don't care anymore, I'm just thankful I can still go.
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I went back and read the original question.
A: Are we loosing the skills and effort required to become good hunters by substituting technology, as well as new practices such as food plots and feeders.
A simple test would answer that, and probably won't ever be conducted, at least on a large scale. I know results would vary from participant to participant. But take a guy like myself who has done this a while and is somewhat of a minimalist, call, gun, camo and a rangefinder. The rangefinder is more to keep me entertained because my mind tends to wander. Then take a guy who prefers to use all the latest gadgets. Blind, flock of high dollar decoys, cell phone, $$$$ shotgun, $10 shells, food plot, feeder, etc. Then make the two hunters swap tools. Who on average would have the skills to be more successful using the other guys tools and methods? Like I mentioned, I know there are exceptions. I may be wrong in my thinking, but I have a feeling I know which group would use his acquired skills to adapt to the other hunters methods quicker.
P.S. I never try to degrade anyone, in anything. I do my thing and don't give a rat's A fifty five how anyone else hunts. And if someone wants to label me an elitist, I can live with that!
Hard to argue that.
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I've killed way more ducks than most serious duck hunters I know. Actually had one of those .com film crews trying to get us to take them hunting when they saw how many birds we were bringing in over the course of a week. Told us they would put us on TV, which made us howl with laughter, right in their face. Like that was a reward or something.
I am a pretty skilled duck hunter, there are plenty that have killed less that are more skilled callers or blind setter or scouters. I have been blessed with opportunity, the means and more than a bit of luck to chase them in 4 states and 2 countries.
I shoot an O/U because it is more traditional and I like it. I follow game laws and anyone with me dang sure better or they will never hunt with me again. My point is, in spite of the effort, all I have learned and all the hunts I have been on, I don't consider or care if others think I am elite.
I came to turkey hunting late in life. I hunt the way I want, when I want and enjoy every day in the field. Those that are worried about numbers and the way others are hunting are missing out on so much that this grand sport offers. What they don't realize is that when they are bragging how many they have killed or how they do it this way or that way, most adult hunters are laughing at them. We had one of those in a club we were in. Nobody cared much for him. But he beat his drum and preached the good word according to him. We all just hunted. I used to pizz him off and give the young bucks the skinny on where the birds were working. Helped more than a few of them kill a bird.
This is supposed to be fun. I am not calling anyone out on any of my points, just finding a lot of the preaching to be funny.
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I've killed way more ducks than most serious duck hunters I know. Actually had one of those .com film crews trying to get us to take them hunting when they saw how many birds we were bringing in over the course of a week
I am a pretty skilled duck hunter,
I shoot an O/U because it is more traditional and I like it.
What they don't realize is that when they are bragging how many they have killed or how they do it this way or that way, most adult hunters are laughing at them.
Your right that is funny lol.
In this whole thread I’ve only seen one person say how many turkeys he’s killed. I have found that you don’t really need them to tell you how many or how long they have been hunting you can always tell the part timers and pseudo experts by the way there posts contradict themselves lol
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You wanna know where this ship is headed? Just take a look at the post “ is my setup a overkill. Thats where its headed or may I say has already arrived.
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You wanna know where this ship is headed? Just take a look at the post “ is my setup a overkill. Thats where its headed or may I say has already arrived.
????????
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You wanna know where this ship is headed? Just take a look at the post “ is my setup a overkill. Thats where its headed or may I say has already arrived.
????????
.
Talking about the clown shooting turkeys at 82 yards.
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My take on this technology stuff is more turkey hunters are inept at using this stuff and lazy in their hunting habits. This means more turkeys for me to hunt! And that is a good thing!
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A guy I know killed a bird at 77 steps with 3” #4 lead. I was a senior on high school, so that would have made it 1997. He shot at several around that range, that was the only one he recovered.
It’s not like TSS is the only reason people take longer shots.
I don’t look at someone who uses technology or new stuff as lazy or incompetent. I actually don’t bother with casting any judgement on them since I don’t buy their license. I don’t carry a decoy, never sat in a blind, I don’t have any fields to hunt, and I don’t shoot TSS. It doesn’t bother me if people do those things though.
I have a problem with poachers. I think they’re low level human beings that damage all hunting.
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You wanna know where this ship is headed? Just take a look at the post “ is my setup a overkill. Thats where its headed or may I say has already arrived.
????????
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Talking about the clown shooting turkeys at 82 yards.
Yeah I know exactly what you were talking about
Got a new phone and instead of the thumbs up emoji it put in the ?? Lol
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You wanna know where this ship is headed? Just take a look at the post “ is my setup a overkill. Thats where its headed or may I say has already arrived.
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Talking about the clown shooting turkeys at 82 yards.
Yeah I know exactly what you were talking about
Got a new phone and instead of the thumbs up emoji it put in the ?? Lol
As soon as they started mentioning the crazy distances, I knew that thread was getting removed.....
Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk
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I've killed way more ducks than most serious duck hunters I know. Actually had one of those .com film crews trying to get us to take them hunting when they saw how many birds we were bringing in over the course of a week
I am a pretty skilled duck hunter,
I shoot an O/U because it is more traditional and I like it.
What they don't realize is that when they are bragging how many they have killed or how they do it this way or that way, most adult hunters are laughing at them.
Your right that is funny lol.
In this whole thread I’ve only seen one person say how many turkeys he’s killed. I have found that you don’t really need them to tell you how many or how long they have been hunting you can always tell the part timers and pseudo experts by the way there posts contradict themselves lol
Yeah, convenient how you left out where I said I was fortunate (that means lucky) and did not consider myself elite and said there were plenty of folks that were better callers, etc. Saw too much of yourself in the rest of my post huh?
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When I placed my order with nitro company a few weeks back, the gentlemen on the phone asked me if I had ever used TSS shot before. I told him ya and was well aware of its capabilities. He started to laugh and told me quite a number of their customers have been smacking turkeys at over 100 yards with it including one guy who rangefound it at 112 yards and took the shot anyway. I didn’t find it amusing and placed my order and went on my way. That’s just totally absurd
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Brings as I’ll be 28 this month and am ate up with most things outdoors, I’d like to chime in on this.
While I no longer feel that I’m one of the “young kids”, I’m definitely not far removed from it. I also apologize if this has been brought up, but I didn’t feel the need to read 3 pages about food plots.
I grew up in wyoming and still live here. For my 16th birthday (Birthday is on April 22nd) my dad asked me what I wanted to do. I wanted to go turkey hunt. Neither one of us had ever even seen a turkey I don’t think. But we went to the black hills because we had heard all about it. We drove around public land blowing on our crow calls and probably doing more harm than good. It’s legal to shoot turkeys with rifles and on the last day we found turkeys and killed them with rifles. We had a great time and were well within the law as we celebrated and high fived. Although I never heard any flack from it, I’m sure when I posted on forums there were plenty of people who didn’t think that was cool. Since then, I’ve spot and stalked birds, called birds in, ambushed em, and killed em about every way possible. I know I got flack for spot and stalking them instead of calling them in in my early years, but I enjoyed it, and again, I was well within the law.
Since then I’ve evolved and I hunt turkeys how I enjoy which is on public land, running and gunning, and trying to outwit any birds I can find. I go into my hunts full of enjoyment and a “great for you” attitude. I don’t think I’m high and mighty and I don’t pass judgement as long as its legal. My dad would rather sit in a blind all day, relax, and hope one walks by nowadays. That’s great! Some guys I know still shoot em with rifles, and while I don’t bring mine on trips anymore, that’s great! If some rancher shoots one out of his kitchen window I chuckle and say “that’s great!” When somebody says, “you’re going all the way to Iowa to kill a bird I say, “yes I really enjoy hunting them, and if you never want to go....THATS GREAT!”
We’ve got way too many problems in this world to be worried about how another person turkey hunts. If it’s against the law then that’s of course different. Hunt how you want to hunt and enjoy yourself. I’ve taken a lot of my friends on turkey hunts and they thought it was going to be a cake walk. Most of them don’t come anymore. Some of them that do would rather kill one with a rifle than go home empty handed. I’m not like that anymore, but that’s great!
I guess the point I’m trying to get across is, the hunting community would we a better place if when some young kid told you they went to the black hills and shot a gobbler with a rifle, that instead of giving them grief and telling them how you think it should be done, and how you do it now, you simply say....THATS GREAT!
X2
Different strokes for different folks.
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I've killed way more ducks than most serious duck hunters I know.
I shoot an O/U because it is more traditional and I like it.
Not convenient but hilarious, those are your direct quotes ..... you can’t make this stuff up lol
You may want to reevaluate your philosophy
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Okay. Maybe you are just not that bright. It is okay, a lot of folks aren't. Maybe English is your second language. The whole point I was making that 98% of people that read this understood, is although I have killed a lot of ducks and I hunt with a certain gun because I like it, I don't think, nor am I, better than any other duck hunter and I freely admit there are better ones than me.
The way you should know that is BECAUSE I SAID IT
"I have been blessed with opportunity-through invitations and chance meetings- "the means" -I am not poor, not rich, but the Lord has blessed me enough I can afford to take those hunts, plenty of working folks can't through no fault of their own-
"and more than a bit of luck"-I think I put fortunate when I typed it the first time and changed it to luck-
"to chase them in 4 states and 2 countries".
If you can't understand that from what I wrote, you probably could not work a cell phone anyways.
So you are either obtuse, confused, or argumentative. Probably a little of all three. I think I hurt your feelings. You can have the last word.
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Okay. Maybe you are just not that bright. It is okay, a lot of folks aren't. Maybe English is your second language. The whole point I was making that 98% of people that read this understood, is although I have killed a lot of ducks and I hunt with a certain gun because I like it, I don't think, nor am I, better than any other duck hunter and I freely admit there are better ones than me.
The way you should know that is BECAUSE I SAID IT
"I have been blessed with opportunity-through invitations and chance meetings- "the means" -I am not poor, not rich, but the Lord has blessed me enough I can afford to take those hunts, plenty of working folks can't through no fault of their own-
"and more than a bit of luck"-I think I put fortunate when I typed it the first time and changed it to luck-
"to chase them in 4 states and 2 countries".
If you can't understand that from what I wrote, you probably could not work a cell phone anyways.
So you are either obtuse, confused, or argumentative. Probably a little of all three. I think I hurt your feelings. You can have the last word.
I understand completely....you wrote a post saying how good of a duck hunter you are and how many more ducks you kill than the other guy,then you said ,in the same post, people that brag about how many they kill and how they hunt get laughed at. I agreed and laughed at you ALOT.....still laughing even showed your post to a couple more people we all laughed at you and your post. I don’t think you understand what a contradiction is that’s ok a lot of people don’t ( not really most 10 year olds get it) Maybe next time you get done typing one of your long winded philosophical posts you could get someone to proof read it, hopefully saving you another one of these embarrassing situations lol. Thanks for the last word I don’t think you were able to wrap this up yourself
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I understand completely....you wrote a post saying how good of a duck hunter you are and how many more ducks you kill than the other guy,then you said ,in the same post, people that brag about how many they kill and how they hunt get laughed at. I agreed and laughed at you ALOT.....still laughing even showed your post to a couple more people we all laughed at you and your post. I don’t think you understand what a contradiction is that’s ok a lot of people don’t ( not really most 10 year olds get it) Maybe next time you get done typing one of your long winded philosophical posts you could get someone to proof read it, hopefully saving you another one of these embarrassing situations lol. Thanks for the last word I don’t think you were able to wrap this up yourself
I didn’t understand the guy bragging about duck hunting,and then downing people that brag about killing stuff. I think this particular ship has sank lol. Started off as a good thread then kinda went off the deep end
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There is no "ship", stop worrying about things you can't control and what others are doing... go hunt how you like (legally).