I had a bird that was probably within range today and presented its head for a clean shot. But it didn't even cross my mind to pull the trigger because there were some trees and branches making it hard to estimate the distance; in the moment it felt like miles away. After replaying the event over and over on the drive home, I think he was in range. I could make out his eye separately from his head, and I could see the brown and black bars on his fan.
This brings me to my question: do you guys have any way of knowing when a bird is in range based on some feature of the bird? For example, would being able to distinguish the brown from the black bars on his fan mean he's close enough? Or being able to distinctly see his eye?
Thanks
I don't estimate distance to the bird. You mind can play tricks, filling in details you can't actually make out. That is one of the ways your brain makes up for less than perfect eyesight.
Instead, I pick out trees that I think are forty steps and shoot ASAP when the bird is closer than the trees. On a grade look at the part of the tree that is level with yourself. Do it over and over while scouting and hunting to get your eye in.
Forty of my steps is about 38 yards. Having a gun that will kill to fifty yards, and only shooting at forty steps means eye have at least a ten yard cushion to cover range estimation errors. You need the extra ten yards or more, because no matter how far your gun will kill, there is always the temptation to shoot too far. If your gun only does 40 and you shoot to 40, you will eventually underestimate the distance and spray a bird. I pick 40 as the max distance for ability to have a pattern that isn't crazy tight closer in.
I've never really regretted letting one go, but I have most certainly regretted taking an iffy shot. It's just not worth the risk. :icon_thumright:
I place out 10 yards at a time , 10 yards is fairly easy to accurately judge. I do 10 , 20 , 30 to 40. I've done this for years while bow hunting without a range finder. Get yourself a range finder and see how accurate your estimates are you will be surprised how close you can be when done in 10 yard increments.
Or you can do as my hunting partner does and range objects or landmarks around him with a rangefinder when he sits down to call. He keeps mental note of that magic 40 yard mark and if the bird
Is at or inside this it's bang O.
Lots of ways to skin this cat, find one your most comfortable with and practice it in the off season.
Just a note, field birds are much harder to estimate when you have no reference points , obviously.
Extendo, being able to range the bird by being able to see some feature of the bird would greatly vary by eyesight. A correlation that I could make would not translate well to you or anyone else.
Do you have a range finder?
I think the best way to estimate yardage is to simply get better at the skill of estimating yardage. This can be done by "practicing" estimating yardage by guessing the distance of objects in your surroundings and then using a rangefinder to verify. As you do this you will get better at estimating distance.
As mentioned by Ontario_caller, learn to estimate distance in segments whether they are 10 yard or 20 yard segments. Or you figure out what your max range is for your gun and then learn what that distance looks like. Be sure to practice this in both open and dense areas as sometimes thick vegetation or open areas can play tricks on your eyes.
Quote from: kjnengr on May 10, 2018, 05:53:21 PM
Extendo, being able to range the bird by being able to see some feature of the bird would greatly vary by eyesight. A correlation that I could make would not translate well to you or anyone else.
Do you have a range finder?
I think the best way to estimate yardage is to simply get better at the skill of estimating yardage. This can be done by "practicing" estimating yardage by guessing the distance of objects in your surroundings and then using a rangefinder to verify. As you do this you will get better at estimating distance.
As mentioned by Ontario_caller, learn to estimate distance in segments whether they are 10 yard or 20 yard segments. Or you figure out what your max range is for your gun and then learn what that distance looks like. Be sure to practice this in both open and dense areas as sometimes thick vegetation or open areas can play tricks on your eyes.
I see. I have been practicing this in open areas but today was in thick brush which made me think he was really far away.
Iv always put a decoy out 20 big steps
If I don't use a decoy Iv made it a habit to have my rangefinder with me
I carry a small rope with a rock just big enough to keep the string from moving. I place it on the ground in front of blind and then walk out until I feel my fingers hit the tape at 25 yards and place my first decoy there and then walk to the end of the rope which is 30 yards and put my next decoy there or slightly to the side of the other decoy and then I know when turkey gets between those two decoys I am golden.
Years ago I would put a stick in the ground at 20yds and 40yrd so I would be less apt to misjudge distance at a set-up . Also i would look at objects when i wasnt hunting and guess and then measure them out to see if i was right.After doing that and all the patterning I do judging distance becomes second nature.
Quote from: Sir-diealot on May 10, 2018, 07:14:35 PM
I carry a small rope with a rock just big enough to keep the string from moving. I place it on the ground in front of blind and then walk out until I feel my fingers hit the tape at 25 yards and place my first decoy there and then walk to the end of the rope which is 30 yards and put my next decoy there or slightly to the side of the other decoy and then I know when turkey gets between those two decoys I am golden.
While I greatly enjoy your posts, I disagree with the decoy idea here...
When I use decoys, it is to draw birds into range, not to "range" birds. Turkeys all too often hang up on decoys, and if a bird hangs up at 20 yards on my decoys that are 25 yards away, he is out of range (for me)... That same bird hangs up on my 10-15 yard decoys and he is still in good range.
On the occasions when I do use decoys, I want them visible to birds (hopefully from multiple avenues of approach), and I want them close to me.
As far as judging range, I would agree with Howl and Ontario_caller... Use the terrain and the landscape to judge range. As soon as I sit down, I first note any direction that is unsafe to shoot, and then I look at where I can shoot, and what aspects of the terrain are within my shooting range.
I agree with both Howl and Ontario_caller, that judging a turkey can be a difficult prospect... Sometimes our brains tell us what we want to hear/see, and seeing that fluffed up bird with a brightly colored head, he can look closer than he is...
I pick out real estate that is in range, and I know when the bird passes "that rock" or "that tree" that he is in my comfortable range... With foliage, trees can be helpful, cause if the top of a tree is 40 yards away, certainly anything on the ground in front of that tree is in range. If you struggle with range estimation then get a range finder, and mark trees and rocks within range.
Admittedly, in the early morning hours my ranges are probably considerably tighter then when the sun comes up... Things look further with less light, and as the sun comes up, I re-evaluate the terrain and my ranges.
And remember, that range estimation only comes into play when a bird stops coming closer... Admittedly, these days I hunt alone most of the time, but I have been surprised in the past by hunting partners that shoot a bird (or shoot at a bird) that is walking towards us? If a bird is slowly (or quickly) making his way towards me, I let him keep coming... As soon as he passes one of my range markers, I know that if the bird stops coming closer, or gets nervous, or is approaching a physical barrier, I can immediately shoot him without taking time to think about it.
I think rangefinders are useless for turkeys myself, they require to much movement in most cases to get on the turkey. (This may not be a problem with people like me that blind hunt) but why spend several hundred dollars on a rangefinder when I get the same advantage from a $3.00 rope?
I can see your point with they may hang up before the decoys, but if that is a worry you can move them in much closer to you. I put a turkey decoy with fishing line attached to it in front of my blind when I deer hunt in case my movement is detected by deer but during turkey season I don't like having them that close if I am on public land.
My max range is 30 yards, my eyes just arn't good enough to go any further. Same for bow hunting deer and I use this same kind of range thing for them with a twist, I use orange, blue and yellow markers set at 10, 20 and 30 yards around my entire shooting area.
I have an eye problem where I only see with one eye, not talking dominance here, everybody has that, I only use one eye at a time, that is why when I drive I make sure I am several car lengths behind to give myself a gap for error. I have had at least 3 eye surgeries when I was very young that I remember and have been told I had 5 Very cross eyed when I was young and some other stuff I never really understood but because of it I am horrible at judging distance, when I reach for something say a pen that somebody is trying to hand me I normally come up very short, sometimes even 2 or 3 times and then they just cram it into my hands so I have had to use little tricks most of my life to get around these problems and the decoy one is one that I think will work well for me, before this I would set up my decoys in the dark and think I was at 20 yards and then when they sun came up I was at maybe 20 feet. I do like there sticks shoved in the ground thought though.
I have that moving around and placing markers is often counterproductive.
I don't guess anymore.
I carry my rangefinder. When I setup, I quickly zap several distinct trees or other objects in my anticipated kill zone and remember how far they were.
Pretty easy. Pretty quick. Pretty effective.
I regularly hunt the same spots on small farms and have ranged trees, logs, and rocks from each location. At my old lease, I tied black cord around small trees about a foot off the ground 35 yards in front of a couple of the trees I hunted from often. It definitely took the guess work out of determining range.
I bowhunted for deer since high school and got familiar with estimating distances and the ten yard increment method Ontario_caller mentioned is spot on. Though it takes practice judging from the ground compared to up a tree.
Jim
I play my game up close, if I set a decoy it's 15-17 yards, (The bow is a bit different because typically in a blind and set 8-10 yards) In the timber no decoy, no blind I pick my sets so my kills are still in the under 20 yard game! I love having them in your face when I pull the trigger!! I also have a scope on my gun that will give you the under 40 yard range, Circle of Death
Timber Hunt and killed him at 17 yards!
MK M GOBL
Quote from: Sir-diealot on May 11, 2018, 03:51:45 PM
I think rangefinders are useless for turkeys myself, they require to much movement in most cases to get on the turkey. (This may not be a problem with people like me that blind hunt) but why spend several hundred dollars on a rangefinder when I get the same advantage from a $3.00 rope?
You do not use the rangefinder to range a bird, you use it to range rocks or trees in the area (long before a bird comes in), so that when a bird passes particular landmarks, you know he is in range...
You do not need an expensive laser range-finder for this type of task... You are not ranging a deer at 400 yards, you are ranging a rock or tree at 40 yards or less. (My cheap optical range finder from the 1990's is accurate enough for this type of activity).
As a bow-hunter, this is likely not necessary for you...
Quote from: Marc on May 12, 2018, 02:29:45 AM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on May 11, 2018, 03:51:45 PM
I think rangefinders are useless for turkeys myself, they require to much movement in most cases to get on the turkey. (This may not be a problem with people like me that blind hunt) but why spend several hundred dollars on a rangefinder when I get the same advantage from a $3.00 rope?
You do not use the rangefinder to range a bird, you use it to range rocks or trees in the area (long before a bird comes in), so that when a bird passes particular landmarks, you know he is in range...
You do not need an expensive laser range-finder for this type of task... You are not ranging a deer at 400 yards, you are ranging a rock or tree at 40 yards or less. (My cheap optical range finder from the 1990's is accurate enough for this type of activity).
As a bow-hunter, this is likely not necessary for you...
Here brings up another reason I would not like a rangefinder. My GF complains that I don't remember things, and she is right. It's a side effect of the Fentanyl and Oxycodone that I have to take every day (Well patches every other day as they last 2 days) to help control my pain as well as others I take for nerve pain and others for inflammation. I have to write the super important stuff down or I forget them. I can remember 1986 like it was yesterday but remember yesterday like it was 1986 It's one of the horrible trade offs I make so I can function every day.
Now another reason this MAY not work for me is I mostly hunt field edges so it is hard to mark and remember a blade of grass or wheat or alfalfa or so on. When I set up I set up so that a bush is to my back door so nothing but me is coming in from that way and then I judge my shooting angles and if it is going to be really wide then I pull out a third decoy and set it up to the outside in that 30 yard range unless I am trying to work on dominance then I put a jake much closer to my blind unless I am hunting public land then I don't use a tom or jake at all for safeties sake.
You do have me thinking about the hanging up outside thing though so perhaps I will move the hens in closer and try sticks in the ground around 30 yards or some other kinda marker that won't hurt the farmers equipment if I forget and leave it there., it will have to be something natural though.
Somebody above mentioned all the moving around being to risky I believe, when I set up a blind or tree stand I set these up and the markers at least a week ahead of time so my scent dissipates and the critters get used to the blind or tree stand.
I just stopped walking with a cane last year and though I am walking much better I am not confident in walking in the woods at night to a stand or blind yet so for now I am sticking to field edges or maybe some woods off to my left (I shoot right handed) but not right in the woods just yet. I think I will be there next year.
Though I may not agree with or use your methods for me I do truly read and think on what you are saying and if it is something I can use, so please don't be shy about giving advise, I am more that willing to weigh it out and use it if I can and I think you for it.
Quote from: Yoder409 on May 11, 2018, 07:59:25 PM
I don't guess anymore.
I carry my rangefinder. When I setup, I quickly zap several distinct trees or other objects in my anticipated kill zone and remember how far they were.
Pretty easy. Pretty quick. Pretty effective.
THIS WORKS WELL FOR ME TOO
I have been bow hunting for years so my mind is very good at judging distance in increments of 10 yards. A range finder is useless to me for the style of turkey hunting I usually do. My rule of thumb is if I can clearly see his eye,he is dead. The only problem with that is I'm gettting a little older and I cant see near as far !
A game I play with my kids is we get out the range finder and we guess how far something is. A tree a light pole ect.
If you can see his eyes pretty clear then he is in range. I do not mean just seeing he has eyes but can actually make them out and all with detail.
3D archery shoots if you're into archery are really helpful with this for practice if they're the kind that don't let you use a rangefinder. Practice makes perfect judging targets using your preset pins, and eventually you start to get a knack for estimating distance even uphill or downhill.
Same here! I rarely use my rangefinder on the actual target, turkey or deer hunting. I usually range my max shooting distance and mentally mark those so I know anything inside those is within range.
Quote from: Yoder409 on May 11, 2018, 07:59:25 PM
I don't guess anymore.
I carry my rangefinder. When I setup, I quickly zap several distinct trees or other objects in my anticipated kill zone and remember how far they were.
Pretty easy. Pretty quick. Pretty effective.
X3. Doesn't take long and worth it.
Quote from: Yoder409 on May 11, 2018, 07:59:25 PM
I don't guess anymore.
I carry my rangefinder. When I setup, I quickly zap several distinct trees or other objects in my anticipated kill zone and remember how far they were.
Pretty easy. Pretty quick. Pretty effective.
That's my approach.
A reliable trick for range estimation is this. On level ground, extend your arm level out in front of you look at the point on the ground at the tip of your middle finger. This is pretty close to 20 yds. Do this before you set up and pick objects at double that distance as your dead zone.
Ranging distance over open featureless ground is difficult. That's why I use my rangefinder on my gobbler decoy and try to keep him at 20-25 yards when I set it up, making it somewhat easy to judge another 10-20 yards beyond, if necessary. This all needs to be done during the decoy set up and not while the gobbler is coming in. For bow hunting deer, I range several trees at 30 yards and place a small orange ribbon/thumb tack around all of my ladder stands.
Rangefinder for me too.
But in situations where it's a quick set up and I have a gobbler that's close, I use the same method that Ontario_caller described. Pick out landmarks in 10 yard increments. Same for bow hunting.
If it's a field set up then of course it's more difficult to judge distance, but if it's a field then I usually have a decoy out. My strategy for decoy placement is similar to what others have already mentioned and that is to place my decoy around 15 yards from me, so that if the gobbler hangs up 15 yards from my decoy, he is still well within gun range.
Here's a trick. When the bird gobbles and you can feel the air move it's close enough. Just kidding guys but if you aren't sure just don't shoot. If it's close you'll know it's in range. It's not about one walking away a few yards too close it's more about one getting wounded a few yards too far.
I'd use a range finder as suggested but I've never carried one for turkeys.
Like several have mentioned. When I set up I use my rangefinder to hit a few trees, bare spots, stumps, etc. and just remember if he's inside "that" then he's in range.
Knowing and judging distance comes with time and hunting experience. However, a great trick is to learn what ten yards looks like, then just judge it ten yards at a time all the way to the bird. However, this does not work well in a field, but it does great in the woods.
I use my 6x rangefinder more for binoculars and also range the farthest object in range and go from there. If you want to practice ranging when ever I walk to a grocery store or around the block start ranging objects then pace them off the thirty to fifty are the hardest but you will get good at it. The old range finders use to use grid lines and where a deer fit between those lines would determine distance. You can use a variation of this by using your bead and paying attention to how much of the head it covers at say forty yards.Practice on a decoy it's not foolproof but does give reference point.
Range finders work well for me. But many times when running and gunning there may not be time to range a bird so the skill of estimating is very useful. Additionally some may have physical issues that make one or the other method useful.
Personally I only use my range finder when hunting fields as distance is much more difficult to judge and some times I will set a decoy at a know range to help judge.
My gun doesn't pattern too dense, I'm not a good shot, and I like my birds close. The only time I really misjudge is in a wide open field which I don't usually end up getting a shot in a field anyway. In the woods it's not hard to guess under 40 yards. If you don't use a rangefinder (I don't) and are not sure what 20-40 yards looks like then practice by stepping off the distance from a few different trees and look at the surroundings and try to get a feel for what the distance looks like using your depth perception. Not sure if that makes any sense, but guessing range is really just getting a feel for it more than actually trying to calculate anything.
Just remember if you think it might be too far, or your just not sure, then don't shoot. When that bird is close enough you will be 100% confident he is close enough.
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I put sticks at 40 yds and my decoys 20 - 30 yds. I have a rangefinder but never carry it, just feels like I carry so much stuff turkey hunting. Find it just as easy to step it off.
From archery hunting and playing golf years ago I think I have a good judgment of distance. I like placing distance markers because it's one less thing to think about and eliminates human error when that gobbler comes in.
I mis-spent a lot of years playing a lot of golf. I can estimate 30 to 60 yards within a yard every time. You guys should take up golf, it'll help you pass the time from June 1 until your next season opens, and it's a cheap hobby that doesn't take up too much time....
Quote from: Yoder409 on May 11, 2018, 07:59:25 PM
I don't guess anymore.
I carry my rangefinder. When I setup, I quickly zap several distinct trees or other objects in my anticipated kill zone and remember how far they were.
Pretty easy. Pretty quick. Pretty effective.
Same here. Distance to a bird can be pretty deceptive. When I sit down I just hit 3 or 4 objects and done.
I use my heart rate as a range finder. When it starts to pound so hard I start shaking he is close enough.