Has anyone shot the new Grand Slams yet. I bought a box of three inch 12 gauge 5s and a box of 6s but it has been raining here all week and I haven't been able to shoot them. supposed to keep raining through Sunday. Just curious if anyone knows where to start. For the price I hope they are ok. I paid 12.00 a box for three inch.
I have been testing Grand Slams (3" #5s) and several other lead loads, through several chokes over the last few weekends, and have found that nothing can top Winchester Long Beard XR but the Federal Premium Turkey and the Federal Grand Slam do a respectable job, just not quite as good of a job, at least in my gun. Out to 40 yards, Grand Slam will do the job from what the pattern board is telling me though.
Thanks for the reply. I still haven't shot yet. Weather supposed to be warm and clear for a few days so I hope to shoot them soon.
Quote from: Magdump on February 26, 2018, 12:00:49 PM
I have been testing Grand Slams (3" #5s) and several other lead loads, through several chokes over the last few weekends, and have found that nothing can top Winchester Long Beard XR but the Federal Premium Turkey and the Federal Grand Slam do a respectable job, just not quite as good of a job, at least in my gun. Out to 40 yards, Grand Slam will do the job from what the pattern board is telling me though.
They always have. Always will. Comparing ANY lead load to winchester longbeard is like comparing apples to oranges. Here's the thing too. No matter how dense that lead pattern gets, it's STILL lead and subject to the limitations of the individual pellet. Yes getting smacked with a baseball is not the same as getting smacked with a bowling ball (pellet vs pattern energy), but if the pellet won't penetrate what good is the entire patern of the same pellet? Far too many guys are seeing insane numbers with these loads and forgetting it is still just lead...
Yes, but let's not forget the cumulative effect of multiple strikes. Even if a pellet doesn't penetrate to the bone, which would be ideal, the blunt force trauma of enough hits to the head simultaneously take a toll. As long as the end result is a clean kill, then the mission is accomplished. A load that lacks good penetration had better make up for it in sheer numbers.
Lead is still lead. It patterns exponentially wider as it travels from the bore than htl and it loses penetration faster due to density and pellet deformation where htl won't. It kills to be sure! Let's be sure we call a spade a spad though and remember it is still limited in its capabilities past a certain point. You yourself said the grand slams do the job to 40 yards on the pattern board. My post was to remind the OP of the REAL limitations of lead and the serious misconceptions that companies like winchester with the LBS, federal with the 3rd degree and EMI with mag blends have created by making hunters believe their turkey loads are more capable than they are. I've shot every lead load to come down the pike since 1984. I've seen birds DUMPED by 7 1/2 shot grand slams at 35 yards and seen birds run off hit with 4s at 50. All I'm saying is lead is still lead and don't let yourself believe for one second it's anything else.
A bird hit at 50 in the head/neck with a good pattern of lead 4s and no brush is not going to run off. Either a pulled shot/brush/inadequate pattern. But you are correct. Lead is still lead and won't kill quite as far as a comparable load of hevi one size smaller, old heavyweight 3-4 sizes smaller, or tss 5 sizes smaller. All with the same pattern that is. People running lead 6s that have shot birds before at 55+ thinking it was 40 should highly consider changing to larger lead, hevi, etc even with a strong pattern. I've seen them do the job and not do the job passed 55.
I am the op and am well aware of the limitations of lead. Don't need a pompous response. Just asked an honest question because I have not shot these loads yet. A lot of good people on this site have positive responses to honest questions without reminding ops in a negative way.
Quote from: tnanh on February 28, 2018, 10:25:18 PM
I am the op and am well aware of the limitations of lead. Don't need a pompous response. Just asked an honest question because I have not shot these loads yet. A lot of good people on this site have positive responses to honest questions without reminding ops in a negative way.
Wasn't a pompous response there kitten so keep your undies unbunched k? Now THAT was a pompous, no, more of a glib response. Don't need to be a smarta$$ when somebody responds with valid points to your questions, now do you? I gave a constructive answer. If you don't like it idk what to tell you. The tss loads using the flex wad aren't patterning anywhere near what apex or handloads are and this is lead so that should tell you something. Federal has a problem with fixing what isnt broken almost as bad as EMI does. They're less than the LBs so they have THAT one thing going for them, but they are not the trip plus wad grand slams so the marginal dif in price should hopefully tell you that the LBs are a better load at a better value performance wise. I dont need to shoot them because I know what they are and I know what the wad is capable of and it's not even close to the HWs or the originals. Happy?
If you break 125/10 I will eat my words too, but I know you won't.
Maybe not but turkey Thugs, Strut Shok, and Winchester xx all shoot over 120 so I wouldn't be surprised if they break 125. When I posted I was really wondering if anyone had shot them and what choke they liked if they have. I'm surprised someone hasn't posted some numbers with them by now. If they do 125 I will be pleased with them. I have a 870 with a 21 inch barrel and usually put a Rhino 660 or a ventilator choke in it and it likes most lead loads ok except Remington and Kent. It only shoots 3 inch shells. Oh and I guarantee you my panties aren't in a wad. Not over something like this.
tnanh,
If they don't give you the pattern that you are looking for and don't like the tight pattern of the longbeards in that choke then you could try the longbeards with a full choke. Our old wingmaster with a 30" fixed full barrel gives an excellent pattern with longbeard 4s at 40 and still hold up beyond for misjudged distances. The pattern seemed pretty evenly spread in the 20 and 10 inch circles. Just enough wiggle room for a walking head bob or flinch.
I have a Carlsons 670 I am going to try Longbeard 4s and 5s in. I got 160 with Lonbeard either 5 or 6 I would have to look at my notes but pretty sure it was 6s. My concern with the longbeards is not only how tight they are but most of my chokes ripped petals off the wads. Especially with Longbeard 4s. I hope the 670 will help both of those but have only shot it once last year and the numbers were a little bit over 100 with 4s but pattern was more even. I am hoping the Grand Slams shoot ok. Weather has been so bad around here that it is already affecting turkey hunting areas in west Tennessee. Has rained about 8 out of last 10 days and all the rivers are already above flood stage. I appreciate your response. Some people want to talk about tss and that wasnt my question. If I do decide to shoot tss it will be with my 20 gauge. I should have plenty of Federal Heavyweight in 20 gauge to last a while.
I have a couple ventilator chokes. Probably the BEST factory turkey choke made. If you can get those new loads to pattern, it'll likely be with that choke.
Thanks for the recommendation on the Ventilator choke. I gave one to both my sons and still have one for my 870. I have set up an old Sears Single shot with a 26 inch barrel to try these new shells and the turkey thugs and some Strut Shok. I am hoping the 26 inch barrel helps with lead. William at Sum-toy threaded it to take Remington Chokes so I will probably try the Ventilator with the 6s. I bought those Ventilators six or seven years ago for I think 10.00 apiece. I heard of one for sale a couple weeks ago for 60.00.
Finally got to shoot today. Shot several dove loads to get the scope that I put in the gun hitting right. Shot several turkey thugs in 5s and sixes. They did ok. got 108 with 5s and 115 with 6s. Those were the best Patterns I got with thugs and both of those were with the Sumtoy 665. Bore snaked between shots. Then I shot the Grand Slams. Shot 1 six and my scope base came loose. That One shot sounded louder and recoiled as bad as any round I have ever shot. Was even noticeable with a lead sled. Got 108 with that pattern high and left. Will have to remount the scope and start over. The Grand Slams were huntable but not great but gun was dirty and don't know if any of my tighter chokes will do better. Will shoot them again later.
Took scope off. Two back screws were completely stripped out. Sfter I get it fixed I will shoot it again or maybe in my 870.
Quote from: mightyjoeyoung on March 02, 2018, 12:28:43 PM
I have a couple ventilator chokes. Probably the BEST factory turkey choke made. If you can get those new loads to pattern, it'll likely be with that choke.
+1 When someone told me to try this choke I was..."yeah right...aint seen a factory choke perform that well...." I ate those words with The Ventilator!
It's been many years ago, but a good friend had a ventilator choke that he used in his 870. I recall not being overly impressed with the patterns, and he was shooting Rem nitro mags. But he went ahead and used it anyway, cause that was all he had, but he killed a few birds with that setup before he traded it off.
It probably was not the choke but the nitro mags. When we first started turkey hunting my son shot an 870 with a 28inch barrel. He killed several turkeys with Remington Nitros and a Jelly head 660. Patterns were marginal at best but he killed turkeys with it.
Quote from: tnanh on March 10, 2018, 12:51:28 PM
It probably was not the choke but the nitro mags. When we first started turkey hunting my son shot an 870 with a 28inch barrel. He killed several turkeys with Remington Nitros and a Jelly head 660. Patterns were marginal at best but he killed turkeys with it.
Agreed. The only good Remmy loads imo were the old, olive drab geen NWTF realtree camo box premires. Those were true turkey hammers.
Quote from: mightyjoeyoung on March 11, 2018, 12:21:33 PM
Quote from: tnanh on March 10, 2018, 12:51:28 PM
It probably was not the choke but the nitro mags. When we first started turkey hunting my son shot an 870 with a 28inch barrel. He killed several turkeys with Remington Nitros and a Jelly head 660. Patterns were marginal at best but he killed turkeys with it.
Agreed. The only good Remmy loads imo were the old, olive drab geen NWTF realtree camo box premires. Those were true turkey hammers.
I have one left and I am hanging on to it for the memories!
Quote from: tha bugman on March 12, 2018, 01:13:56 PM
Quote from: mightyjoeyoung on March 11, 2018, 12:21:33 PM
Quote from: tnanh on March 10, 2018, 12:51:28 PM
It probably was not the choke but the nitro mags. When we first started turkey hunting my son shot an 870 with a 28inch barrel. He killed several turkeys with Remington Nitros and a Jelly head 660. Patterns were marginal at best but he killed turkeys with it.
Agreed. The only good Remmy loads imo were the old, olive drab geen NWTF realtree camo box premires. Those were true turkey hammers.
I have one left and I am hanging on to it for the memories!
Haha. I have a few boxes laying around. Keep em for the memories too I think...
Another reminder of how many turkey loads I have around,have 4x6's and 5's left .
Yes they are terrible, I learned from patterning them. Walmart here don't even stock those nitro's anymore, now that Lb's came out!