Do you folks see any winner here? I would like to leave a 20 gauge to my grandson. What say you?
Thanks...
I have both and both are VG pump shotguns. But as a lefty, I must say I prefer the position of the safety and the bottom ejection of the BPS. And Browning's usually have a better finish.
NB
I'll take a new BPS over a new Wingmaster. If we're talking about an older generation, it's splitting hairs but I'd still lean towards the Browning. Remington quality isn't what it used to be. Browning has stayed fairly consistent. Still prefer the Belgium stuff to the Japanese but it's all been pretty good either way.
Most people reporting that remington quality isnt what it used to be are mostly basing it off of what they have heard on the internet and have no first hand experience. New wingmasters are just as nice as they ever have been. I have more 870's than I care to admit from the 50's to the present. The only problem I have ever had with an 870 were extraction issues with a particular supermag. Wingmaster quality remains consistent.
Sure some of the expresses have finish issues, but they are also cheap guns and made to fit a certain price point, but they function fine.
Now having said that, I too have both and in every gauge made and I love my brownings because they are beautifully made but they are heavy and I use them for specific purposes. Both guns are worthy of gifting to a grandson and I am sure will be treasured by him.
But, if it was me I would want a three inch chambered 20 ga Wingmaster.
I too have both, and would advise you to stay away from the cheaper 870 Express versions and to stick with the higher quality Wingmasters. The back-bored Brownings produce some of the best/even (turkey, duck, goose) patterns which I have ever seen. I would look for an older model Remington or Browning and personally prefer Ithaca Model 37s due to their weight, handling and ease of operation. The "new" 37s, made in Ohio, command a premium price, but the quality is unsurpassed by any other current production pump shotgun
Bps all the way. Absolutely nothing wrong with a wingmaster though, they are wonderful guns. A 20 gauge Bps would be a very nice gun to hand down, plus the nice flat receiver sides would be a great spot to put a personalized engraving on. I have a 12 and 10 gauge and love them both. Very well made and reliable, and very slick once broken in. I've carried my 12 upland special for 22 years, thousands of rounds and still looks and works great. I have taken everything with that gun. including my biggest buck and many gobblers. My son took his first ducks with that gun, and I took her out of semi retirement to take this seasons gobbler. I have had a lot of nice shotguns over the years, but this one will have to get pried out of my hands the day they close the lid! You definitely can't go wrong with a Bps.
I have owned two Browning BPS shotguns, a 12 and a 10 and still have the 10 Gauge. I have also owned several 870's in 12 ga and one in 20. I still have one 12 and the 20. The Browning BPS's are IMO higher quality but also more expensive. I can recommend either as a good choice. Nothing wrong with an 870. BTW my 870 20 ga. 26" is an "Express" of recent manufacture and it works great. No problems at all. ;D
Quote from: CrustyRusty on May 18, 2017, 08:16:47 AM
Most people reporting that remington quality isnt what it used to be are mostly basing it off of what they have heard on the internet and have no first hand experience. New wingmasters are just as nice as they ever have been. I have more 870's than I care to admit from the 50's to the present. The only problem I have ever had with an 870 were extraction issues with a particular supermag. Wingmaster quality remains consistent.
Sure some of the expresses have finish issues, but they are also cheap guns and made to fit a certain price point, but they function fine.
Now having said that, I too have both and in every gauge made and I love my brownings because they are beautifully made but they are heavy and I use them for specific purposes. Both guns are worthy of gifting to a grandson and I am sure will be treasured by him.
But, if it was me I would want a three inch chambered 20 ga Wingmaster.
Yeah, you're right. I mean the last two express shotguns I've gotten have rusted just for looking at them cross eyed. One wouldn't extract a shell to save its life even after Remington "fixed" it. The model 700 chambered in (well I don't exactly know what it was chambered in to be honest) .223 wouldn't chamber any factory round because it was cut incorrectly and upon "fixing" that I find that the bore was off center and the mounting holes for the scope base was not centered with the barrel either. All internet hearsay though so continue on. Totally understand that the express is a cheaper model and won't hold the wingmaster accountable for those issues but let's face reality. Remington isn't what it used to be. The components of the 870 are the same. WM are machined (that helps) while Express are stamped (not so well I might add). All in cost cutting and has led to problems for me personally. The public needed a cheaper gun and they certainly found an answer. Also, I can say with certainty, the smith at the LGS has nothing positive to say about the new line of Remington shotguns except the autos for some reason. He's worked on more 870's in the past 10 years than any other shotgun and they've not all been of the Express line. Granted, there's also a number game to be played here because it is the leading pump gun sold. Just not for me unless it's an older one. Personal preference I suppose.
I'll stick to other companies when it comes to new guns but don't let my "internet" experience influence where you spend your money. Good luck either way.
Just a Thought! Have you noticed that there are no "Quality Control" issues or problems referenced on any of the sites concerning the "New" Ithaca shotguns. You get what you pay for. The Ithaca Model 37, 20 gauge, is one of the lightest and best handling shotguns ever made, and with the advent of choke tubes and a 3" chamber will serve a hunter of any age with a quality made all-game pump shotgun. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I own, and have owned, both 870 Wingmasters and BPS, 12's and 10's, but, as you can infer, I prefer Ithaca Model 37's, and have killed the majority of my gobblers w/ 37's since 1985, when I had Mark Bansner cut-down and sleeve to .665, a 3", 37.
Quote from: wvmntnhick on May 19, 2017, 06:13:12 AM
Quote from: CrustyRusty on May 18, 2017, 08:16:47 AM
Most people reporting that remington quality isnt what it used to be are mostly basing it off of what they have heard on the internet and have no first hand experience. New wingmasters are just as nice as they ever have been. I have more 870's than I care to admit from the 50's to the present. The only problem I have ever had with an 870 were extraction issues with a particular supermag. Wingmaster quality remains consistent.
Sure some of the expresses have finish issues, but they are also cheap guns and made to fit a certain price point, but they function fine.
Now having said that, I too have both and in every gauge made and I love my brownings because they are beautifully made but they are heavy and I use them for specific purposes. Both guns are worthy of gifting to a grandson and I am sure will be treasured by him.
But, if it was me I would want a three inch chambered 20 ga Wingmaster.
Yeah, you're right. I mean the last two express shotguns I've gotten have rusted just for looking at them cross eyed. One wouldn't extract a shell to save its life even after Remington "fixed" it. The model 700 chambered in (well I don't exactly know what it was chambered in to be honest) .223 wouldn't chamber any factory round because it was cut incorrectly and upon "fixing" that I find that the bore was off center and the mounting holes for the scope base was not centered with the barrel either. All internet hearsay though so continue on. Totally understand that the express is a cheaper model and won't hold the wingmaster accountable for those issues but let's face reality. Remington isn't what it used to be. The components of the 870 are the same. WM are machined (that helps) while Express are stamped (not so well I might add). All in cost cutting and has led to problems for me personally. The public needed a cheaper gun and they certainly found an answer. Also, I can say with certainty, the smith at the LGS has nothing positive to say about the new line of Remington shotguns except the autos for some reason. He's worked on more 870's in the past 10 years than any other shotgun and they've not all been of the Express line. Granted, there's also a number game to be played here because it is the leading pump gun sold. Just not for me unless it's an older one. Personal preference I suppose.
I'll stick to other companies when it comes to new guns but don't let my "internet" experience influence where you spend your money. Good luck either way.
Im with you. Remington has put out some real garbage in the past 10 years. And that's not Internet BS that's first hand experience. I have heard that they are aware and some of the newest stuff has improved. To bad I'm never going to find out.
To the OP my vote goes to the BPS.
Quote from: decoykrvr on May 19, 2017, 11:29:26 AM
Just a Thought! Have you noticed that there are no "Quality Control" issues or problems referenced on any of the sites concerning the "New" Ithaca shotguns. You get what you pay for. The Ithaca Model 37, 20 gauge, is one of the lightest and best handling shotguns ever made, and with the advent of choke tubes and a 3" chamber will serve a hunter of any age with a quality made all-game pump shotgun. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I own, and have owned, both 870 Wingmasters and BPS, 12's and 10's, but, as you can infer, I prefer Ithaca Model 37's, and have killed the majority of my gobblers w/ 37's since 1985, when I had Mark Bansner cut-down and sleeve to .665, a 3", 37.
The 37 hit a slippery slope a while back and I believe left a foul taste in the mouths of consumers for a bit. The early models are great and the most recent are amazing as well. I'll agree with you 100%. If I were currently looking for a new 20 ga pump gun, it'd either be the browning or the Ithaca. It wasn't mentioned so never brought it up but you are completely correct.
Quote from: longislandloco on May 18, 2017, 07:57:44 PM
My son has a new BPS, wood stock, inletting on the forearm looks like it was done with a chainsaw, Browning QC is slipping.
I looked at some new Brownings recently and thought the stocks looked okay. I shoot Brownings alot and have some I've been shooting for over 30 years: namley my 12 G browning invector. I really like the bottom ejection as I can find my empties quickly and don't have to worry about anyone next to me. Rifles too are great all being sub MOA. I'd say go with the BPS.
On a side note I also have 5 Remingtons. They look good and shoot fine: simply cannot understand all the negativity online. My experience is completly different. But then I shoot constantly and enjoy tweaking my firearms and ammo.
Buying new? BPS allllllllll the way. Used? Wingmaster made in the 60-80's is simply in my opinion, the greatest of pumps ever made. I love both and have both but an old classic wingmaster is my all time fav.
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Chevy v. Ford.......only with guns, LOL
Only shoot older Remingtons. I know of a couple first hand bad experiences in the past 10 years or so manufacture.
Shoot old Remington's and new Brownings and you can't go wrong when it comes to pump guns.
Quote from: Swampchickin234 on May 19, 2017, 04:15:31 PM
Buying new? BPS allllllllll the way. Used? Wingmaster made in the 60-80's is simply in my opinion, the greatest of pumps ever made. I love both and have both but an old classic wingmaster is my all time fav.
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Old 870 Wingmasters are good but old Winchester Model 12's are GREAT! I have a 1959 vintage Model 12. It's a field grade and the quality is amazing. They stopped making them because they were too expensive to manufacture. No plastic there. Most parts are forged!
I'm sure your grandson will be happy with either. I would handle them side-by-side, if possible. I picked the BPS, but that was in 12ga.
I like both, the bps is very heavy though in mop.
Father has an older wingmaster, 12 870 express, and 20 870. All great shotguns. As far as the newer model goes I went with a BPS in a 12 and love it. However the 20 gauge 870 youth compact is extremely popular with the heavyweight and TSS crowd and I'm probably going to do a build with one myself in the next year. The light weight and ability to produce 40 yard killers out of such a compact gun with today's ammo advancements really speaks to me,, and I also have 2 year old boy who I hope catches the addiction down the road like I did. I feel like that gun would be a ideal fit for a youngster as well as wonderful for a full grown man who wants to go lighter.