Im not new to turkey hunting but I'm not a seasoned veteran either, but i had a guy tell something along the lines that in the morning times when the birds start gobbling that he will never face or fly down towards the sun. so if you set up inbtween him and the sun your chances are decreased greatly. please allow some input on this
thanks
I can't say that I have noticed that before.
Never heard of such. I've killed one or two.
I agree most always the birds will fly down to the cool side of the ridge or bottom...I'm not saying one want fly up the ridge but ive never have saw but a couple do this during my 30 yrs of turkey hunting.
On several occasions I've seen them fly down in the direction of the sun. I think it has more to do with where they want to go to eat or drink. Usually, where I hunt anyway, the sun isn't all that high in the sky when they fly down and is behind the surrounding trees. I do think they prefer, for the sake of better vision, to have the sun at their backs when on the ground and moving, and the sun is higher in the sky.
My policy has always been to never face the sun in gunfights, for everything else it doesn't matter-------but thats just my policy :TooFunny:
I suspect there may be rare occasions when the conditions are such that the location of the sun at sunrise would impact where a gobbler chooses to fly down. I also suspect that there are many other factors that are more important, however.
The most glaring error in the theory is that, at least where I have hunted, turkeys rarely wait until the sun has risen to fly down. Most times they are on the ground and beginning their days activities before the sun comes over the horizon.
You should consider the effects of the sunrise and how it is going to impact your set-up on a bird when it does come up, however. If you can help it, you don't want to be looking into the sun with approaching birds,...and you most certainly do not want the sun to be hitting you directly as turkeys approach you.
In summary, choosing your set-up locations based on the theory of a gobbler flying away from the sunrise is, in most instances, probably a waste of time and, in many instances, may be counter-productive.
Quote from: Xtrema30 on June 21, 2015, 04:01:12 PM
i had a guy tell something along the lines that in the morning times when the birds start gobbling that he will never face or fly down towards the sun.
I think he might be telling you what he would do if he was a gobbler, so he thinks it must be true.
I see that theory trashed every year where I hunt. I've seen them on the limb doing 360's and gobbling all directions. Ever hear a bird on the limb and think man, he pretty close? Then the next time he gobbles you think is that the same gobbler? Especially in flat land. Chances are he's just changing positions on the limb.
And like Gobblenut said, most the birds I encounter are on the ground before the sun breaks the horizon.
Now the Sun does factor into my set-ups, or at least the shade does.
Not sure if we're talking the same species. Easterns where I hunt typically fly down before the sun is up. Not in the dark but before the sun actually rises which is a half hour or more before the sun.
I figured it was bull...just wanted input and yeah ive expiereneced the bird changing position on the limb a ton.
I think one could never factor the sun into the equation of a blind hunt. I might give it some thought on a roosted bird, all other things being equal. I hate my position when the turkey is approaching with the sun at his back during the first hour after sunrise. He can clearly see under that circumstance, and I can't.
As others have pointed out, in my experience the sun has never been a factor at fly down time for me. However; I did learn years ago that on certain sunlight conditions that if I have the sun at my back and turkeys in front of me, I am much more successful making moves without being detected. Years ago, I discovered this while running across a cut soybean field to bust a fall flock. I literally ran 100 yards across a wide open field and ran into shotgun range. When I looked back across the field where I came from, all I could see was black due to the sun.
Quote from: GobbleNut on June 22, 2015, 09:06:48 AM
...
The most glaring error in the theory is that, at least where I have hunted, turkeys rarely wait until the sun has risen to fly down.
...
Bingo! :icon_thumright:
Never say never when it comes to turkey hunting. The only absolute in turkey hunting is there are NO absolutes.
In the 2014 season, I set up my decoys in a picked soy bean field beside a 40-acre weed thicket where the hens would go to nest, sometimes dragging a gobbler with them. It was still dark when I set up and I got comfortable against a big oak tree. As the clear sky began to reveal the rising sun, I realized that I'd made a mistake in facing east toward my decoys but it was too late to relocate since the gobblers were already on the ground. About an hour later, I heard a stick snap behind me and soon a gobbler walked past me at 10' and directly into the sun as he challenged my Funky Chicken. While I was successful in making the shot, it was a chore for me to then have to look into the sun in order to take the tom. This year, I sat up in the exact same spot but this time waited for a cloudy day to do so. Even after 30+ years of turkey hunting, lessons are learned.
Quote from: WildTigerTrout on July 01, 2015, 03:08:34 PM
Never say never when it comes to turkey hunting. The only absolute in turkey hunting is there are NO absolutes.
Agreed ^^^^^ Never and always should be not be used when discussing turkey behavior.
The gentlemen that made that statement was most likely playing off information given in a very informative video put out by Denny Gulvas, Hunting Pressured Gobblers. In the video Denny explains how many times he's experienced gobblers approaching his calling location in a fashion as to put the sun at their backs, even when a much easier path is available. He backed this up with a video segment illustrating the theory. I do believe their is some truth to that statement. But like mentioned, nothing is 100%.
Interesting thought, Cove. I have no idea if a turkey has the mental capacity to make a conscious decision to approach with the sun at it's back, but this brings up the age-old discussion about whether turkeys (or other animals, for that matter) have the ability to "reason" in such cases.
Personally, I have seen enough evidence in my turkey hunting lifetime to think that they can be "conditioned" to act in certain ways, under certain circumstances. Negative reactions to turkey calling is certainly one of those, from my perspective.
However, to think that a gobbler would have enough negative experiences in his lifetime to somehow begin to associate sun position with his approach to something would be a stretch, even for someone who thinks turkeys do have some level of rudimentary reasoning ability. ...Not saying it couldn't happen, but I doubt there are very many turkeys around that have made that connection in their lifetimes,...and if they have, does that act as proof that turkeys are capable of some level of "reasoning"?...
I'd get me a turkey fan and have the turkey between my fan and the Sun.
Quote from: guesswho on October 15, 2015, 01:08:20 PM
I'd get me a turkey fan and have the turkey between my fan and the Sun.
That'll do it,...just make sure you have your rocks all ready,...that's what I do..... :toothy12:
Rock. You can use one more than once so I only carry one.
Quote from: guesswho on October 15, 2015, 03:27:49 PM
Rock. You can use one more than once so I only carry one.
rock? I would use a steel ball ! 1 inch in diameter . "Both ways ". And only throw left handed because right handed tear's them up too bad!
Quote from: GobbleNut on October 15, 2015, 08:42:26 AM
Interesting thought, Cove. I have no idea if a turkey has the mental capacity to make a conscious decision to approach with the sun at it's back, but this brings up the age-old discussion about whether turkeys (or other animals, for that matter) have the ability to "reason" in such cases.
Personally, I have seen enough evidence in my turkey hunting lifetime to think that they can be "conditioned" to act in certain ways, under certain circumstances. Negative reactions to turkey calling is certainly one of those, from my perspective.
However, to think that a gobbler would have enough negative experiences in his lifetime to somehow begin to associate sun position with his approach to something would be a stretch, even for someone who thinks turkeys do have some level of rudimentary reasoning ability. ...Not saying it couldn't happen, but I doubt there are very many turkeys around that have made that connection in their lifetimes,...and if they have, does that act as proof that turkeys are capable of some level of "reasoning"?...
I don't necessarily believe that a gobbler must have negative experiences to act a certain way, experiences in general shape the way they behave day to day in my opinion. I'm assuming all turkey's realize they're ability to see is greatly heightened with the sun at their backs. And given it is their main method of confirmation and defense as to what they're hearing I would believe it would be very likely for them to use the sun to their advantage all the time. Not necessarily because they were skiddish about their approach but simply because it's works out better for them to see.
Quote from: Cove on October 19, 2015, 11:57:20 AM
...Not necessarily because they were skiddish about their approach but simply because it's works out better for them to see.
I agree. It makes sense they would prefer to approach from the angle that offers them the best visibility.
Quote from: stinkpickle on October 20, 2015, 01:57:51 PM
Quote from: Cove on October 19, 2015, 11:57:20 AM
...Not necessarily because they were skiddish about their approach but simply because it's works out better for them to see.
I agree. It makes sense they would prefer to approach from the angle that offers them the best visibility.
Yes, it does make sense,...but it also suggests that turkeys have the reasoning ability to correlate the sun position with its impacts on their vision. Once again, I personally believe that turkeys are capable of some level of reasoning based on my own experiences hunting them. This would seem to be a prime example of that,...if we accept the premise that they do it intentionally.
I certainly don't have the answer. An older deer will definitely circle to approach unknown from the downwind side to use it's greatest sense being smell. I don't think they reason this out but do play to the strength of their nose whether instinct, bad experiences or reasoning I cannot say. By the same token a turkeys best defenses are eyesight and hearing. I do know if it is windy and raining making hearing more difficult they do tend to frequent open places that they can see well in. I think it's entirely possible that turkeys instinctively, reason out or otherwise learn to approach unknown with the sun at their back.
So to answer original question, I set up looking away from sunrise every time it is possible. I cannot tell you how many times a turkey has circled me to approach from a different direction that had me looking into the sun but it is a bunch. I think fly-down direction in general has very little influence or bearing on which direction a gobbler will approach from. In my experience in the woods, they mostly just drop down to the forest floor with little direction to it. Usually with hens in sight.
This brings up a bigger question. With me being human perfectly capable of reasoning, why haven't I figured this out before? They approach with sun at their back.
NATURE DOES WHAT NATUE DOES
FOR SURVIVAL
So with this reasoning, we as hunters should set-up facing the Sun? To minimize our movements from having to turn and face the way the turkey has learned to approach, which is with the Sun to his back. And I always just thought they liked the shady side of the field once the sun got up and it heated up, which would most times put the Sun to their back on their approach. Hmmm, learn something everyday.
Quote from: guesswho on October 21, 2015, 01:59:26 PM
So with this reasoning, we as hunters should set-up facing the Sun? To minimize our movements from having to turn and face the way the turkey has learned to approach, which is with the Sun to his back. And I always just thought they liked the shady side of the field once the sun got up and it heated up, which would most times put the Sun to their back on their approach. Hmmm, learn something everyday.
Once the sun is that high up, the mushroom hunters show up and ruin it all anyway.
Quote from: stinkpickle on October 21, 2015, 03:03:48 PM
Quote from: guesswho on October 21, 2015, 01:59:26 PM
So with this reasoning, we as hunters should set-up facing the Sun? To minimize our movements from having to turn and face the way the turkey has learned to approach, which is with the Sun to his back. And I always just thought they liked the shady side of the field once the sun got up and it heated up, which would most times put the Sun to their back on their approach. Hmmm, learn something everyday.
Once the sun is that high up, the mushroom hunters show up and ruin it all anyway.
Hey, mushrooms are very tasty!!!!
Never noticed any inclination in toms to approach with the sun at their backs. Have definitely seen a tendency to utilize high ground on approach, assumed it was for visibility of all involved, hen to see him too etc. I think many in this discussion are overlooking that part of it.