I heard a rumor that nobody who has a call entered in any of the call competitions will be allowed to be a judge this year. Curious if there is any truth to this rumor? That would sure help keep some callmaker buddies from judging each others' competition. I have never understood how three judges can judge a category and two of them are best friends with a guy who has calls entered in that category. I have been told that when this has happened that friendship played no role in who won but somehow I just never accepted that answer. Politics, money, and friendship should not be a factor but has been in the past. Way too many top callmakers no longer enter the competition because of it.
Heck, I have several redneck turkey hunting buddies who can run a call with the best of them that would be happy to judge and they are not friends with any of the callmakers.
Its been pretty easy to guess the winners very early in to the competition .Good Luck to all who enter !
If that's the case not really worth entering your call then and that's bad news.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think the top 5 GNCC friction callers should judge them. Or top 10 if some of those have calls entered. The top friction callers in the world should be able to find the best sounding calls.
Quote from: TRKYHTR on January 06, 2015, 12:49:20 AM
I think the top 5 GNCC friction callers should judge them. Or top 10 if some of those have calls entered. The top friction callers in the world should be able to find the best sounding calls.
Sure would be nice Joe. :anim_25:
I think MOST callmakers would like that Joe. It would certainly even the playing field. But has anyone heard the rumor I heard that nobody with a call entered will be allowed to judge? I am sure that some of the NWTF gurus can answer this question.
Quote from: hunter22 on January 06, 2015, 09:54:12 AM
I think MOST callmakers would like that Joe. It would certainly even the playing field. But has anyone heard the rumor I heard that nobody with a call entered will be allowed to judge? I am sure that some of the NWTF gurus can answer this question.
Don't know about that...but they sent me a judge's form along with my call maker's registration, so it would look like they are searching for judges prior to knowing who is or is not entering calls.
Denny,
Like I said in an earlier post, I know some redneck turkey killers that can flat out run a turkey call and they don't know any of the callmakers from Adam. I bet they would be happy to judge at Nashville if asked. They are not competition callers but just plain ole turkey killing thugs.
You and I both know guys who have won in the past and lots of folks who have played their calls asked the question, "How did they win?"
This is my first year to enter calls, and I am very excited to finally have calls entered.
I have always wanted to judge the friction calls, but competing in the calling contest has always conflicted with doing that.
But every year I have gone down and ran most of if not all the winning pot calls. I have picked up calls with blue ribbons, ran them and then looked around to see if there was some sort of mix up, and I would be like someone actually thinks this call is good. I have ran calls that did not get a sniff of a ribbon, and they were some of the top calls I have ever had in my hand.
I ran some calls last year that had Clint Corders name on them, and I was like "They got it right this year"!!!
I agree with having the called signed and dated, but I think the signature should be covered with a piece of blue painters tape.
Sadler
Quote from: Sadler McGraw on January 07, 2015, 04:08:16 PM
This is my first year to enter calls, and I am very excited to finally have calls entered.
I have always wanted to judge the friction calls, but competing in the calling contest has always conflicted with doing that.
But every year I have gone down and ran most of if not all the winning pot calls. I have picked up calls with blue ribbons, ran them and then looked around to see if there was some sort of mix up, and I would be like someone actually thinks this call is good. I have ran calls that did not get a sniff of a ribbon, and they were some of the top calls I have ever had in my hand.
I ran some calls last year that had Clint Corders name on them, and I was like "They got it right this year"!!!
I agree with having the called signed and dated, but I think the signature should be covered with a piece of blue painters tape.
Sadler
TRUTH!!
and Corder does make a fine pot!
Well said Sadler. Everyone knows that in a lot of cases friendships, money, and politics have played a role in who has won the call competition at Nationals. Hopefully that will be addressed this year if the rumors I am hearing are true. I have had calls made by some of the big winners that I would be ashamed to run in the woods. They were that bad. And yes, Clint makes a fine pot call.
Good luck to you. It is unfortunate that some of you callmakers cannot run your own stuff. I know another callmaker who I think would win his competition if he could run his calls for the judges.
I agree with Sadler 100%. I even made a short video clip of me running 5 different calls last year. I asked several people which was the best sounding call and nobody picked the blue ribbon winner. BTW it wasn't a pot call.
Joe
Quote from: TRKYHTR on January 07, 2015, 11:57:13 PM
I agree with Sadler 100%. I even made a short video clip of me running 5 different calls last year. I asked several people which was the best sounding call and nobody picked the blue ribbon winner. BTW it wasn't a pot call.
Joe
I remember that Joe. I agree with Sadler too. Also, I don't think a judge should be in a call makers booth running his calls before the judging occurs on Thur. either. Just sayin'....
I picked the same one you said was your favorite, Joe.
In some instances a judge might not pick a call because it doesn't fit him. Case in point, last night a gentleman was at my house and he is a world class friction caller. He ran three pot calls in my living room that had all made the cut by me to be sold or whatever. The first two he ran, every note of yelping had a high sqweek in it, the third call he could hammer on.
Any one of those calls, I would have entered this year in Nashville, because I could run them. But here was a guy that can run a call as good as me, didn't sound as good on two of my calls. So I could see this happening to a judge.
I sold a call this year this year to a well known caller, he sent it back and said it had no backend just the hight part. The striker marks he left on the call were about 1/4" higher on a call than where I run a call.. When I saw it, I thought what a dumb @&&, he doesn't know how to run a call.. But I am sure in the past he has found calls that suited him, my call just didn't fit the way he calls.
I have told this story dozens of times, the year that I won the GNCC Friction, the call that I won with came from Woodhaven. A customer had purchased it, it was mailed to him and then he sent it back and said it was a piece of junk. I picked that same call up at the Woodyhaven shop and ran it and to this day is the best call I have ever held. I said that morning, I will win the GNCC in two weeks with this, and I did. To the customer, it might not have worked for him, but for me it did.
This same scenario can be played out in the duck and goose calls, a long reed vs a short reed in a duck call. A callmaker might put a big lipstop on his trumpet where the next guy need a small one to call well.
I guess what I am saying is, sometimes it might be a little luck in having a judge run your calls and they fit him or not!
As stated by Sadler, "I guess what I am saying is, sometimes it might be a little luck in having a judge run your calls and they fit him or not", this is very true!!!
I've got 2 wing bones entered this year (my first time entering) and it will depend on who's judging them as to how I think they will do. Suction calls are not designed to be heard over in the next county, so I hope the ones doing the judging do not play them that way.
One of the things judged, is the ease of play. Lots of times the judge, or the person buying the call, has to do, is learn to play it the way the call maker does. I DO NOT think a person should be allowed to judge if he or she has a call entered in the contest.
But in the NWTF's defense, they are always looking for people to fill these thankless positions. If no one offers, then sometimes you just have to take what's been offered! But, then on the other side of the coin, you have to get there a day early, there is no pay or compensation from what I hear, and you know from the get go that you are going to have folks upset with you. This is an extra day of food and lodging on someone's part that is doing a voluntary service. Like Pappy stated, they send out, with the callmakers package a request for judges. Why don't they include that form in with the scores of other mail that they send out to it's members. That way thousands could be reached instead of just a few.
If anyone is interested in judging, I'm sure they can get on the list by calling Karen Cavender or Charley Burke with the NWTF. I just hope they don't have a fiasco this year like they did last year in the suction call division. That was a JOKE!
Bottom line is, as long as there is a competition, this problem will always exist!
Here is a contact if anyone is interested in judging:
kcavender@nwtf.net
I will add the very best friction calls are not finicky to playing style and/or striker choice.
Thankless job is correct, Mark. Lots of scrutiny without any upside.
One thing I have noticed when it comes to the call making comps are the words "user friendly" as it seems the NWTF has deep rooted feelings about this when it comes to "judging" the calls entered. Only thing is ( how in the world can you make a call that everyone can run like a pro? ) that is why the calls we all make are called custom calls, they are designed for the person who is purchasing them and we are the final judge of the call before it leaves our shop. The the ultimate test comes in the field in the hands of the customer, so here it is in the nutshell.....if you make a call and enter it in a competition remember that those who are running the call, can either make or break you by a point or two on their scorecard, for THAT COMPETITION but not for your sales to customers who really know and appreciated your efforts in the shop and for the sport. Personally, I have entered the GN several times always placed well below in the ratings, but with the same call won first and overall best of in other comps, so it has discouraged me from entering the GN, the only call I entered this year is a locator call because of a personal competition between me and Sanitorium hereon the site...for funzies....
Thanks for the feedback I have received through PMs. Sounds like some changes are coming. Definitely should level the playing field.
Quote from: hunter22 on January 12, 2015, 01:26:51 PM
Thanks for the feedback I have received through PMs. Sounds like some changes are coming. Definitely should level the playing field.
Any of you fellas get in touch with Karen???
Denny----I have the video that Joe made but cannot get it to open now. I agreed with Joe on his selections he bought.
Mark----I think Karen was contacted.
Denny---I sent you the link to Joe's video.
Good luck to the callmakers entering calls in the various categories at Nationals in Nashville. From what I have been told by some reputable people the NWTF recognized some problems have occurred in the past and went out to get non-biased judges who can also run a turkey call. Should be a fair competition with friends not judging friends categories for a change.
I just enter a short box as a donation, but it's sure fun to run some of the top builders and award winners calls each year..........
That's been an issue in call building competitions for years. That's why you'll see a call builder win a competition for a couple years and then fade out of sight, with no one ever hearing anything of them after that. Judges change and that's that. That's why one of the questions that was asked to call builders on how to improve call competitions, the highest point made by almost every call builder was" the judges need to hear the calls and not see them first. They need to be set behind a curtain and have the calls run for them to judge the sound of them, then they could view the calls and run them themselves to finish their judging on them". Just like the judges do in a calling competition, they don't see who is calling, they just hear them.
Quote from: WillowRidgeCalls on February 13, 2015, 08:50:28 PM
That's been an issue in call building competitions for years. That's why you'll see a call builder win a competition for a couple years and then fade out of sight, with no one ever hearing anything of them after that. Judges change and that's that. That's why one of the questions that was asked to call builders on how to improve call competitions, the highest point made by almost every call builder was" the judges need to hear the calls and not see them first. They need to be set behind a curtain and have the calls run for them to judge the sound of them, then they could view the calls and run them themselves to finish their judging on them". Just like the judges do in a calling competition, they don't see who is calling, they just hear them.
:z-winnersmiley: :z-winnersmiley:
Fully agree , let the turkey calls do all the talking
I think one of the things they are judged on is ease of play. Whether or not a guy can just pick up the call and get turkey sounds out of it with little effort. Generally speaking, it's hard to beat the call maker playing his or her own game.
:deadhorse:
If you don't like the way the calls are judged then stop entering calls and when the NWTF profits drop they will fix the problem to get their profit back.
Richard,
I guess that is about as simple as you could make it. Several callmakers not pleased with the way the callmaking contests are being done, so stop entering. I can think of at least 8 of the top callmakers in the country that don't compete. But with all the new callmakers coming on there will be a good supply of lambs to the slaughter. Look at the National scoring on the NWTF website. Sure some large point differences in some of the categories. Several people have commented to me that they ran the calls and sure did not see that kind of point difference but I was not there so cannot say I ran them. But I did hear some sound clips. I guess we all like different sounds in a turkey call.
I entered twice...first time they lost one of my calls before the contest. The second time they sold my calls even though I sent the paperwork in to buy my own calls back which were already sold. They said I didn't send the paperwork. They did find the check in the same envelope though. I was done at that point. Between that and knowingly placing incompetent judges in the air operated class at least in some years past...it's a little more than a joke.
Kenny,
I am not sure which is worse, incompetent judges or judges that are best friends with the callmakers.