I don't know if i'm expecting too much out of myself, but i for the life of me can NOT get the diaphragm call to sound like a turkey. It sounds like somebody is choking a turkey out! I think it's more to do with cadence and tongue placement, maybe it's the way i expel air? I've watched videos on youtube but i guess they don't simplify it enough for me. I'd like to be able to at least yelp, cut and cluck. I think what i'd like to do when i go out next is use my pot call to initially call and then go over to the diaphragm (if i can figure out how to run it) once they're by me. Realistically i'd like to run the diaphragm call 100% of the time i'm out since it's hands free. Can anybody dumb it down for me?
EZ recommended perfection turkey calls, i bought a "Super double D" and a "raspy D". They'll be here wednesday. I'm currently running a david halloran crystal mistress pot call and while i'm ok on it, i'd really rather run a hands free call.
It's not instantly easy. Take the call back and forth to work with you, on the way in, way home, lunch break, etc use it some. Don't do marathon sessions that frustrate you. Remember mouth calls can give you a sore throat so find a way to disinfect em w mouthwash or wash in water than put in freezer if one is available at work. Work on the simple cluck.
Two schools of thought. One, use a call blows easy. Two use one really hard. Once you get that it's all easy. I think since you're frustrated an easy to blow call. Hooks may work
This is what I would recommend, I still use these regularly. Quaker Boy Beginners Double
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5-aZsVqSGY
This might be of some help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbquoZexZkA
Start with simple to run mouth call...
A single or double reed ....
Put the call in your mouth, take a huge deep breath, & relax....
Learn to make noise with the call first.... control your air flow & tongue to make a high, a middle, or a low note single sound...
Do short calling sessions...Helps to eliminate frustration, when you try your hardest...
DO NOT MAKE turkey sounds till you can control your air flow & tone....!!!!!!!!!
Relax & enjoy learning to use a mouth call...
You can't learn to use one over night, so be patient with your progress, however slow, that may be...
Good luck...
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Your story sounds familiar.
I went through the same frustrations....until one day a wise old timer suggested that I try a "youth" diaphragm made on a smaller frame. Bingo.....that was it. I learned that my palate was smaller than normal and the regular sized diaphragm frames were not fitting me well and air was leaking or bypassing around the diaphragm. I have progressed from not being able to use the mouth calls effectively at all to being the best mouth caller in my group of six Turkey hunting buddies.
Try a Woodhaven Youth or any of the Hook's Calls that are manufactured on the smaller frames.
GunRunner
Something that I think many new users miss is the calls are not always ready to use out of the package. Most need tuning. Tuning means making them fit comfortably in your mouth roof, bending and or twisting to chamge sound. Also there is an up and down side, most packaging explains this
Here is my approach on every new call. Put in in my mouth and see how comfortable it is. Does it go up into the curve of my mouth without a lot of deforming the tape. The answer to this is almost always "no" for me. The next thing I do is trim a very small amount of tape off all the way around the call, maintaining shape. Try fit again. Trim more tape if not a fit. You want to stop, when it still seems a little bit too big. Next, with the call in the roof of your mouth take your thumb and push it up bending it some to the shape of your mouth, not a lot. It should feel like it's completely seated. Try blowing it. If it souunds better ten practice with it that way until you get turkey sounds. If it still wants to fall out and not seal, trim a little more or bend more. Remember the seal is key. If air goes around or over the call it won't sound right. All air must go across the reeds. After you have turkey sounds you can tune for more quality with bending and twisting. Yeah you'll ruin a few calls before you figure it out, but that is called unsecured investment.
I had the same experience, tried for years. 2 years ago I asked Goosebat which calls to start with. Then watched YouTube video after YouTube video. This year I think I have enough confidence to try them in the field. Very hard to switch from pots & box calls that worked for me the last 30 years.
Just have to stick with it.
Quote from: eggshell on December 08, 2021, 07:34:23 AM
Something that I think many new users miss is the calls are not always ready to use out of the package. Most need tuning. Tuning means making them fit comfortably in your mouth roof, bending and or twisting to chamge sound. Also there is an up and down side, most packaging explains this
Here is my approach on every new call. Put in in my mouth and see how comfortable it is. Does it go up into the curve of my mouth without a lot of deforming the tape. The answer to this is almost always "no" for me. The next thing I do is trim a very small amount of tape off all the way around the call, maintaining shape. Try fit again. Trim more tape if not a fit. You want to stop, when it still seems a little bit too big. Next, with the call in the roof of your mouth take your thumb and push it up bending it some to the shape of your mouth, not a lot. It should feel like it's completely seated. Try blowing it. If it souunds better ten practice with it that way until you get turkey sounds. If it still wants to fall out and not seal, trim a little more or bend more. Remember the seal is key. If air goes around or over the call it won't sound right. All air must go across the reeds. After you have turkey sounds you can tune for more quality with bending and twisting. Yeah you'll ruin a few calls before you figure it out, but that is called unsecured investment.
X2. Every mouth I use, I trim the tape for a comfortable fit. No too much, just enough to fit the roof of your mouth. Stay at it, you will get it. Good luck..
I remember well my first experience with a mouth diaphragm...by the time I finished huffing on that caller I had a migraine headache for two days. Fortunately, Jim Clay, Perfection Game Calls, came to my rescue and sent me one of his red tape single reed mouth diaphragms to learn on. Finding the right callers for you is a trial and error process...talking to a callmaker that makes mouth diaphragm callers would be most helpful. With all the callers being made today, the right one for you is out there....
I started off with a couple of diaphragms and just practiced them everyday when driving alone. When I got where I could make decent sounds with them I started trying diaphragms from different makers everyday. I'd pick 2 each day to practice to and from work. What eventually happened was that I was able to choose the right makers and cuts that worked for me. Diaphragms are really the only call cheap enough to do that with.
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Although it was long ago, as I recall my initial problem with learning to use a mouth call was that I was not "blowing" air properly and was not positioning my tongue properly to control air flow over the reeds of the call. In the beginning, I was just blowing air out of my mouth without using my tongue to direct the air flow properly over the call reeds.
It's hard to explain, but your air flow should come from your "throat" and your tongue (especially the back of your tongue) should be pressed upward towards your palate such that you are basically sealing-off the rest of your mouth and channeling that air flow over the reeds of the call with your tongue placement. When you are controlling your air flow properly, you will need very little air and all of that air will be directed over the call reeds. That is, none of the air you use to operate the call will be escaping anywhere else except for over the reeds of the call.
Once you get that air flow going properly, it is all just a matter of practice and perseverance. You will eventually start figuring out the different techniques needed to produce the various turkey sounds, but that does take some time.
The one thing you don't want to do until you have a grasp of the above is to start buying umpteen turkey calls thinking that the call is going to make a difference. Yes, once you have learned the basics, you will need to figure out what call design suits you best (and that can vary a lot based on many different factors) but starting off the process by thinking that "if I just find the right call, I will be able to make turkey noises" is a big, and potentially costly, mistake. :icon_thumright:
Recommended call for beginners: I agree with others in that you should probably start with a two-reed call constructed with thin reed material. A basic two-reed call made up of .0025 to .003 reed material is a good starting point...avoid the heavier stuff to start with.
Definitely agree with using thinner latex/proph in a two reed call to start with. Less air to get the reeds to vibrate.
Another thing I'd suggest is not being afraid to blow on a call a little harder when first starting. At this point you're just trying to find a turkey sound, and once you've figured that out, you can start to understand how the mechanics of how your mouth makes those sounds. In my opinion, the only difference between a sharp cutting cluck and a soft cluck is some tongue pressure and how much air you're supplying. That's something you learn how to control over time with more practice.
Essentially what I'm saying, learn how to make a sound and then refine it from there. It's much easier in my opinion, to learn to make a sound then it is to refine it into a soft, more subtle version of the same vocalization. Don't be afraid to hammer on a call to start and then refine it from there.
Using a digital recorder to record your calling and immediately playing it back will be helpful to you. What you hear when you're calling is not necessarily what you will hear when you play back your calling from the digital recorder. Immediate feedback is helpful in shortening the learning curve. Truthfully, some of the worse sounding callers I have ever heard were real wild turkey hens. You really don't have to be a perfect caller....
I'm in the same situation and I have no tips to help you out. I have just come to the conclusion that I cannot run a mouth call. So you know what I've done? Worked hard to become a great caller on other types of calls. Yes the hands free aspect of a mouth call is great but you can definitely call and kill with other calls.
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Quote from: Tarheel on December 10, 2021, 09:39:39 PM
Using a digital recorder to record your calling and immediately playing it back will be helpful to you. What you hear when you're calling is not necessarily what you will hear when you play back your calling from the digital recorder. Immediate feedback is helpful in shortening the learning curve. Truthfully, some of the worse sounding callers I have ever heard were real wild turkey hens. You really don't have to be a perfect caller....
If you do this, do it outside and keep the recorder a few feet from you. I'll add again that quality isn't as critical as cadence.
I'll echo what others have said. Keep it simple. A very basic two reed is the best to learn on. I've seen a lot of "good callers" who weren't. They insisted on running a raspy call with a 3 reeds and a complex cut in reality they needed a plain two reed call or no more than a boss hen cut and their calling dilemmas would have been over but I honestly feel like there was a little bit of macho mentality that wouldn't let them step away from the "fancy" call. I for the most part only run two reeds except for when I need volume in the Oklahoma and Kansas wind or my go to ghost cut is a 3 reed.
yeah, the 100 hrs or so can be hard. LOL I started with a QB twin 2, then the pro triple & then a Butzki quad cutter, this was in the 80`s & I still run all those call styles, I started using the Gulvas style a few years ago too, & really really like them, Mike
Quote from: Gooserbat on January 18, 2022, 02:58:35 PM
I'll echo what others have said. Keep it simple. A very basic two reed is the best to learn on. I've seen a lot of "good callers" who weren't. They insisted on running a raspy call with a 3 reeds and a complex cut in reality they needed a plain two reed call or no more than a boss hen cut and their calling dilemmas would have been over but I honestly feel like there was a little bit of macho mentality that wouldn't let them step away from the "fancy" call. I for the most part only run two reeds except for when I need volume in the Oklahoma and Kansas wind or my go to ghost cut is a 3 reed.
Surely you jest! "good callers who weren't". I can tell you I have literally cringed at some of the calling I have heard on videos, TV shows and from "experts". I could go out grab a chicken and the squawking that ensued would be better. I like simple and I try some of the "fancy" calls, but when it comes kill time it's usually an old stand bye in my cheek. I do like a 3 reed with one basic cut though. I am no champion or expert but I started running mouth calls in 1975 and even an idiot can learn to drive in 45+ years. My first mouth call was made by "Lew McClure". https://www.ebay.com/itm/353180046608?nma=true&si=n7ZcQzbRq3srUeh4F8elrSxlkBo%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 I made acquaintance with lew at a seminar in 1975 and even sold his calls for years. Take my word for it and no offense to early call makers, but today's calls are far superior in sound quality and ease of learning.
So much great advice! I'll throw in my two cents,
Building off another's advice of recording yourself, make sure to video record yourself, watch your mouth and compare it to the professionals you see on videos. Notice how much or how little their mouth is open when they are making certain notes. I had a terrible habit of yelping with my lips shaped like I was blowing out a candle. Till I forced myself to imitate grandpa and curl my lips over my teeth. The difference is night and day.
Keep practice sessions small to avoid bad habits, but when you do hit a yelp or cluck that's appealing to your ear, make that same note over and over to build muscle memory. Taking notice of how much tongue pressure you're using and the amount of air needed in your lungs to make the sound correctly.
Keep exposing yourself to instructional videos and like you did here keep asking for tips. Sooner or later someone will give you advice that clicks and you'll be over your hurdle.
And don't give up man! There's nothing more rewarding than talking a bird into doing something he wouldn't have otherwise done.