Turkey hunting forum for turkey hunting tips

 It is now official , no more rifle hunting for fall birds. State says that there is an unfair advantage, and that there is a serious decline in the turkey population here in Pa. Predators have taken a huge toll on deer and turkeys. Not to mention the release of the Fisher several years ago, to combat the porcupine problem, totally backfired! Shotguns , bows and muzzleloader is still legal. All WMU's have had there seasons cut . I find this announcement disturbing, given the fact that the PGC still offers a second gobbler tag for 25.00 for the spring season. The Fall rifle season has always been a favorite of mine , because you use what you like, and choice is what works for the hunter. You can shoot a predator, or a turkey if the situation presents itself. Just another bad example of the state making bad choices for a profit once again. Pennsylvania has deep roots in the fall rifle season, not to mention all the money tied up in specialized fall turkey hunting guns. If this kind of government over reach bothers you , I urge you to let the PGC hear about it! The biologist that made this determination should be fired for mismanagement, and the Commissioners that voted this in should be voted OUT! If there is truly a turkey shortage, get rid of the second gobbler tag.

I'm glad they passed it. Don't like the concept of using rifles for turkey. You can legally use rifles for spring hunting in both Virginia's, which I think is ridiculous.

 Rifles should be banned in every state for turkey - spring or fall.

PA is and has been the most schizophrenic and random in their game laws.

I'm not a rifle proponent or hater.  Have carried my 5mm Rem Rimfire a time or two just because.  But I could never figure out why they outlawed #2 shot in my shotgun for turkeys but 140 grain AccuBonds at over 3600 fps in my 7-STW wit a 20X scope............

:z-dizzy:

I have been a member on OG for many years and don't post often. I look at a lot of conversational post and shake my head in disbelief often on comments, but this is another post that I am not going to let slide by without a comment.  I am glad you have an opinion that rifle hunting should be banned in every state, but my opinion differs than yours. You should have a choice of hunting with what you want! You pay for the hunting privilege when you buy a license plus buy extra tags and all the other crap. What is the difference between hunting with a 410, 20 or 12 gauge with optics, a tight choke and TSS vs a muzzleloader vs a rifle.  What is the difference between a recurve bow vs a compound bow vs a crossbow with a scope.  What is the difference between hunting with your back against a tree vs a blind with decoys with movable body parts vs fanning a bird. What is the difference between hunting Public land vs paying a guide service to escort you and buy yourself a bird or two or three. I  don't use a rifle, a shotgun with TSS or a bow. I don't use a blind with decoys or guide or guide service, but if you choose to use any of the the previous methods you should have the right to do so.

Quote from: dwcim on April 18, 2021, 10:55:12 AM
I have been a member on OG for many years and don't post often. I look at a lot of conversational post and shake my head in disbelief often on comments, but this is another post that I am not going to let slide by without a comment.  I am glad you have an opinion that rifle hunting should be banned in every state, but my opinion differs than yours. You should have a choice of hunting with what you want! You pay for the hunting privilege when you buy a license plus buy extra tags and all the other crap. What is the difference between hunting with a 410, 20 or 12 gauge with optics, a tight choke and TSS vs a muzzleloader vs a rifle.  What is the difference between a recurve bow vs a compound bow vs a crossbow with a scope.  What is the difference between hunting with your back against a tree vs a blind with decoys with movable body parts vs fanning a bird. What is the difference between hunting Public land vs paying a guide service to escort you and buy yourself a bird or two or three. I  don't use a rifle, a shotgun with TSS or a bow. I don't use a blind with decoys or guide or guide service, but if you choose to use any of the the previous methods you should have the right to do so.

Idk, maybe 10 times the range with a rifle, that kinda makes a huge difference

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Quote from: knifeshark on April 18, 2021, 09:33:30 AM
It is now official , no more rifle hunting for fall birds. State says that there is an unfair advantage, and that there is a serious decline in the turkey population here in Pa. Predators have taken a huge toll on deer and turkeys. Not to mention the release of the Fisher several years ago, to combat the porcupine problem, totally backfired! Shotguns , bows and muzzleloader is still legal. All WMU's have had there seasons cut . I find this announcement disturbing, given the fact that the PGC still offers a second gobbler tag for 25.00 for the spring season. The Fall rifle season has always been a favorite of mine , because you use what you like, and choice is what works for the hunter. You can shoot a predator, or a turkey if the situation presents itself. Just another bad example of the state making bad choices for a profit once again. Pennsylvania has deep roots in the fall rifle season, not to mention all the money tied up in specialized fall turkey hunting guns. If this kind of government over reach bothers you , I urge you to let the PGC hear about it! The biologist that made this determination should be fired for mismanagement, and the Commissioners that voted this in should be voted OUT! If there is truly a turkey shortage, get rid of the second gobbler tag.

Get the popcorn ready. The anti rifle fellas are going to eat this up. Personally, I'm with you. Didn't own a shotgun for 18 years of my life and did it all with a rimfire. Well, generally. Would take the 223 at times. Far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter. The complaint about distance is drastically getting negated with the introduction of tss. I'll bet solid money that many of the guys (certainly not all) that get in here and say they set the limit at 40 yards have stretched it well beyond that when they stoked the barrel with tss. I've seen several mention that it was shot at "this distance" here and then the truth comes out that it was much darker on another forum. Again, I could care less. And, if WV went to straight shotgun, I'll play by their rules. But, if you can honestly sit here and tell me that shooting a bird in the face with 300+ pellets requires less skill than taking his head off with a single projectile, well...

I've started using shotguns more in recent years. And will continue to do so when I feel the desire. But, if I get up in the morning and feel like taking a rifle, I'll not rethink it one bit.

In short, I'm with those that have stated that one should get to use what they wish. You're paying for the privilege (stated above but it should be your RIGHT vs being a privilege) to hunt so go about it as you please. Just don't waste the resources in the process.


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I wish they would have maybe came up with a bounty for predators. Maybe offer some $ to each turned in. Feel like nest wreckers are the biggest problem

Quote from: BigSlam51 on April 18, 2021, 11:57:25 AM

Quote from: dwcim on April 18, 2021, 10:55:12 AM
I have been a member on OG for many years and don't post often. I look at a lot of conversational post and shake my head in disbelief often on comments, but this is another post that I am not going to let slide by without a comment.  I am glad you have an opinion that rifle hunting should be banned in every state, but my opinion differs than yours. You should have a choice of hunting with what you want! You pay for the hunting privilege when you buy a license plus buy extra tags and all the other crap. What is the difference between hunting with a 410, 20 or 12 gauge with optics, a tight choke and TSS vs a muzzleloader vs a rifle.  What is the difference between a recurve bow vs a compound bow vs a crossbow with a scope.  What is the difference between hunting with your back against a tree vs a blind with decoys with movable body parts vs fanning a bird. What is the difference between hunting Public land vs paying a guide service to escort you and buy yourself a bird or two or three. I  don't use a rifle, a shotgun with TSS or a bow. I don't use a blind with decoys or guide or guide service, but if you choose to use any of the the previous methods you should have the right to do so.

Idk, maybe 10 times the range with a rifle, that kinda makes a huge difference

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Exactly..

I'm ok with it, but it doesn't make sense to offer 2 spring tags if they are concerned with the population. Pa. has always had  a lot of senseless regulations.

Was a time when someone every year was shot with a rifle in fall turkey season. Maybe things have gotten better but fall turkey was way to dangerous for me.

Also never understood the harvesting of hens in the fall. Tom's sure but hens?

Doesn't PA require the use of orange when moving in spring? If so ,I could see why rifles were stopped in the fall. A guy can grab a shotgun and call in birds in the fall and be successful and probably enjoy fall hunting.

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I will keep my personal opinion to myself and just say this. People need to understand game management better. Its a business, but it is also about not overkilling our resource. Hunter success percentages weigh heavily into this equation. This isn't about ethics or fair chase. This is about selling lots of tags to pay for the management while still keeping a healthy population. Therefore you have two options. Restrict legal means of harvest or go to limited tags available.

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Quote from: fallhnt on April 18, 2021, 02:13:26 PM
Doesn't PA require the use of orange when moving in spring? If so ,I could see why rifles were stopped in the fall. A guy can grab a shotgun and call in birds in the fall and be successful and probably enjoy fall hunting.

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There is no  orange law for spring hunting, but there is for fall hunting, because it overlaps the archery season. Some great responses and opinions here, keep them coming!

wvmntnhick,  You can bet the WV will soon follow PA.  Our guys at DNR and the legislature seldom have an idea of their own to start with.  One of the rich landowner delegates will have an epiphany for sure now.
Just like WVQDMA trying to legislate deer harvests.  It is as someone said, "all about the money."

Quote from: rifleman on April 18, 2021, 04:01:33 PM
wvmntnhick,  You can bet the WV will soon follow PA.  Our guys at DNR and the legislature seldom have an idea of their own to start with.  One of the rich landowner delegates will have an epiphany for sure now.
Just like WVQDMA trying to legislate deer harvests.  It is as someone said, "all about the money."

And, when they do, I'll comply. Admittedly, I likely didn't do the game animals any favors as a youngster. Having gotten a little older, seeing things for what they are, recognizing my own personal flaws and changes in my personal life, let's just say some things changed for me in the long run. Always enjoyed using a rifle. I mean really, what's not to like? And, if the state says 2 birds, then 2 birds it is. Doesn't much matter in my eyes if the guy kills them with a rifle, shotgun, his truck or detonates 5# of tannerite to do it (assuming it's legal where you are). If they want to preserve the game, drop the limit.

I've been hearing that they're going to reduce the number of bucks down to two for the last couple years and that the second buck (regardless of weapon) will have to follow some antler restriction guidelines. And while some would cry about it, I'm all for it. However, they also need to limit the number of total deer killed in certain counties more so than they do now. Ohio is a one buck state. They produce some real bruisers. The herd isn't hurting there but they certainly don't have the numbers we do either. Back home, 2 hours from here, I've gotten much more selective in the past several years about what I kill myself be it turkeys or deer. The numbers aren't as good. Small bucks, jakes and does (for the most part) get a pass. The hatches aren't as good there. The mast production sucks usually. The only things that are doing well there are the coyotes and the bears. It's regional obviously and should be handled as such. Essentially, whatever the state decides is fine by me but I can't personally see how limiting the weapons is going to make a huge dent in population integrity. Guys complained about compound bows when they hit the market and again when the crossbows became legal. It's had very little impact on kill numbers. Maybe it's just me though. Although, having discussed it with one of our biologists at length, well, he'll tell ya the same. It's as was stated earlier, a money racket.


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As I stated before, I'm not a fan of rifles for turkey. But passing such a law for hopes of saving some turkey isn't going to help much. As far as getting rid of the 2nd spring tag, that's probably not going to happen either, it generates too much money for the Game commission.

fall birds was a big thing growing up and still is i have a over under rifle shot gun combo i have gotten lots turkey with I  would like see them put a fall turkey tag out maybe 10 or 15 $ with all the over lapping seasons now  and cross bows now  theirs lots of opportunities now to take a turkey when their not the intended target 

Quote from: falltoms on April 18, 2021, 05:31:25 PM
As I stated before, I'm not a fan of rifles for turkey. But passing such a law for hopes of saving some turkey isn't going to help much. As far as getting rid of the 2nd spring tag, that's probably not going to happen either, it generates too much money for the Game commission.

That sums it up. It's like the tiger trout the WV hasn't stocked in years. Costs a pile of money to raise them and they're hard on natives if they get into those fisheries. That's why they stopped stocking them 20+ years ago. Well, they're back now. Why? MONEY!!!


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I remember when it was legal to use rifles here in SC. Glad when they outlawed them. Was for safety reasons, number of folks shot each spring.

Sorry i didn't realize any state still allowed rifle hunting for turkeys!! I was taught to only shoot if you could see his eyes blink! Can you hear him spitting and drumming at 200 hundred plus yards?

Quote from: dwcim on April 18, 2021, 10:55:12 AM
I have been a member on OG for many years and don't post often. I look at a lot of conversational post and shake my head in disbelief often on comments, but this is another post that I am not going to let slide by without a comment.  I am glad you have an opinion that rifle hunting should be banned in every state, but my opinion differs than yours. You should have a choice of hunting with what you want! You pay for the hunting privilege when you buy a license plus buy extra tags and all the other crap. What is the difference between hunting with a 410, 20 or 12 gauge with optics, a tight choke and TSS vs a muzzleloader vs a rifle.  What is the difference between a recurve bow vs a compound bow vs a crossbow with a scope.  What is the difference between hunting with your back against a tree vs a blind with decoys with movable body parts vs fanning a bird. What is the difference between hunting Public land vs paying a guide service to escort you and buy yourself a bird or two or three. I  don't use a rifle, a shotgun with TSS or a bow. I don't use a blind with decoys or guide or guide service, but if you choose to use any of the the previous methods you should have the right to do so.

I feel the same way as you it's local government control stripping you of your hunting privileges ( slowly but surely) you guys still can't hunt on Sunday either? That's just over stepping as far as I am concerned.

Quote from: 3bailey3 on April 18, 2021, 08:27:31 PM
Sorry i didn't realize any state still allowed rifle hunting for turkeys!! I was taught to only shoot if you could see his eyes blink! Can you hear him spitting and drumming at 200 hundred plus yards?

It's either sex bird in the fall you don't need to hear them spitting and drumming


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I don't hunt in PA anymore, so I don't think my opinion counts for much.

Shooting hens in the fall does not equate to shooting Tom's in the spring. Males aren't laying eggs, hens are.

Not hunting on Sunday's has been in place since before I was born in the sixties. It has remained that way because most Pennsylvanian didn't want the rule changed. No body stripped anyone of anything.

Do PA blue laws make much sense? Probably not, but it is for Pennsylvanians to change those rules/laws. No one else.

Again sorry, at the top of this page it says turkey hunting forum, not turkey shooting forum!

Quote from: 3bailey3 on April 18, 2021, 09:09:10 PM
Again sorry, at the top of this page it says turkey hunting forum, not turkey shooting forum!

Shooting is the end result of hunting regardless if you're using a rifle, shotgun, crossbow, compound bow, spear, or a good rubber band and paper clip.


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Turkey hunting to me is calling one in for a shot, not just shooting one!

Quote from: 3bailey3 on April 18, 2021, 09:46:40 PM
Turkey hunting to me is calling one in for a shot, not just shooting one!

You can call one in for a shot with a rifle.  I've never thought about shooting a turkey with a rifle and I don't know anything about it.  Because I don't know anything about it I choose not to critical of it.  I've had enough people that tell me I'm doing something wrong because they don't know what goes into what I'm doing so I choose to return the favor to those that do things I have little understanding of.


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Quote from: Meleagris gallopavo on April 18, 2021, 09:41:08 PM

Quote from: 3bailey3 on April 18, 2021, 09:09:10 PM
Again sorry, at the top of this page it says turkey hunting forum, not turkey shooting forum!

Shooting is the end result of hunting regardless if you're using a rifle, shotgun, crossbow, compound bow, spear, or a good rubber band and paper clip.


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^^ this. And, your statement above is also correct. Shooting is the end result. The weapon matters not. And even though I've used a rifle on turkeys more than most guys (I'm assuming anyway) on this forum, the vast majority have fallen well within shotgun range. And with the new turkey loads on the market, I can't see much of a difference in the end. Again, it's not for everyone and tends to be a sore subject when it comes up every spring/fall. I'd almost bet good money there's been more birds crippled and died later with shotguns than rifles. Sure, it's likely a numbers game but I rarely hear of a guy using a rifle that mentions hitting a bird only for it to get up and run off. Shotguns are a different story. But I'm often the outcast and my opinion matters not. As far as safety goes, a little target recognition goes a long ways.


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Mel you are sure defending something you say you know nothing about!! you say you can call one into rifle range but yet you know about rifle hunting? Again sorry but i thought most here knew what they were defending, late on here for me, going to try and call one into range with my 20 in the morning..

Pennsylvania has a long tradition of using rifles in the fall for turkey hunting.  Safety concerns have nothing to do with this change in the law.  The statistics do not support that thought at all.  The reasoning put out by the Game Commission is that rifles are more effective and by eliminating their use they could reduce the overall fall harvest.  What a bunch of bull$$it.  In the past, fall turkey harvest has been adjusted by season length. Want more harvest make it longer.  Want less, make it shorter.  Want no harvest close the season in certain areas.  This approach has worked for decades.  Now this bull$$it move by the Commissioners who are by the way nothing but appointed political hacks by the governor.  They rammed this through by adding it to their spring agenda at the last minute without much notice to the public.  It was a done deal from the beginning.  Now my Ithaca/Tikka O/U 222 Rem.-12 ga. TURKEY Gun that I have used for many fall seasons is as worthless as those idiots setting on the board of the PGC. :angry9:

Quote from: WildTigerTrout on April 18, 2021, 10:46:03 PM
Pennsylvania has a long tradition of using rifles in the fall for turkey hunting.  Safety concerns have nothing to do with this change in the law.  The statistics do not support that thought at all.  The reasoning put out by the Game Commission is that rifles are more effective and by eliminating their use they could reduce the overall fall harvest.  What a bunch of bull$$it.  In the past, fall turkey harvest has been adjusted by season length. Want more harvest make it longer.  Want less, make it shorter.  Want no harvest close the season in certain areas.  This approach has worked for decades.  Now this bull$$it move by the Commissioners who are by the way nothing but appointed political hacks by the governor.  They rammed this through by adding it to their spring agenda at the last minute without much notice to the public.  It was a done deal from the beginning.  Now my Ithaca/Tikka O/U 222 Rem.-12 ga. TURKEY Gun that I have used for many fall seasons is as worthless as those idiots setting on the board of the PGC. :angry9:

He gets it!        Well said , brother! This is exactly the point here, not if you are more of a man , for using a shotgun. It's about freedom and tradition!


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 Lifetime Pa resident and long time turkey hunter. Although I never liked the idea of rifles for fall turkey hunting, I felt that it was legal, so who am I to decide how someone chooses to hunt.

I'm with WildTigerTrout, because this is just another example of the poor decision making and ineffectiveness that the Pa Game Commission is known for.

Back in the late 80's turkey hunting accidents were off the charts and everyone at the game commission was scratching their a$$ trying to figure out exactly what to do. The reports from these so called "accidents " showed that there were actually very few "accidents", (1% or less) and in most cases the true cause was the shooter simply failed to identify their target or verify their surroundings. Basic hunter/gun owner/gun handling responsibilities weren't followed.

Very few of these "accidents" were every treated as a crime and prosecuted. Basically it seemed like, if you shoot someone on the street it's called assault or even murder, but if you shoot someone while turkey hunting, it's called a hunting "accident". You get a fine and maybe your hunting privileges revoked for 5 years. So around 1992, they crammed the BS fluorescent orange law down our throats, raving about how effective it was in the reduction of turkey hunting accidents. Then in the mid 2,000's, they rescinded the law, again raving about its effectiveness and failing to mention that the overall population of turkeys was down and the number of turkey hunters had decreased by 30-40% during that time, so it made sense that the number of hunting accidents had also decreased.

And don't even get me started about the "special spring turkey tag" that they added a few years ago.... for an extra $20.00!

Although the turkey numbers in my area are down probably upwards of 50% from where they were 20 years ago, we still have a good population of birds to hunt for 2 reasons.....

1. Many, many less hunters than there were 20 years ago, so harvest numbers are down.

2. I live in an area where habitat improvement, food plots and supplemental feeding for deer and turkeys is extremely popular. I know many, including myself, who spend countless hours and tons of $$ trying to enhance their property strictly for hunting, This past winter we had an usual amount of snow/ice for weeks and in some areas it definitely had a negative impact on the turkeys, but in my area they are fine...no thanks to the politicians that control the Pa Game Commission!!






 
 

Am I missing something... I can quite vividly remember when they added Rifles to be an allowable weapon for fall turkey. Before that we once used to simultaneous hunt the extinct grouse and turkey of which the goal was to always bust a flock up and call them back in. This obviously being with a shotgun.

I have shot a few with it and as many stated don't understand why we try to limit how people hunt.

I guess what I really struggle with is how they justify that Rifles in Fall Turkey hunting is having any meaningful impact on the population. That is one of the more whimsical things I have heard in a while. This state like many others has become a "Deer" focused state. Spend some time in the woods and you will see that there are very few people that actually fall turkey hunt. Couple that with the ever increasing lack of ground I would really like a PGC rep to show me just how they made this observation.

This is a huge scapegoat to addressing the real problems that are impacting turkey populations and coming up with sound solutions to address them. What those are will be very opinionated depending on who you ask but I can most certainly without a reasonable doubt say that it is not hunters having the greatest influence on the turkey population.

Quote from: FL-Boss on April 18, 2021, 10:12:33 AM
Rifles should be banned in every state for turkey - spring or fall.

Amen, I agree 100%

Quote from: WildTigerTrout on April 18, 2021, 10:46:03 PM
Pennsylvania has a long tradition of using rifles in the fall for turkey hunting.  Safety concerns have nothing to do with this change in the law.  The statistics do not support that thought at all.  The reasoning put out by the Game Commission is that rifles are more effective and by eliminating their use they could reduce the overall fall harvest.  What a bunch of bull$$it.  In the past, fall turkey harvest has been adjusted by season length. Want more harvest make it longer.  Want less, make it shorter.  Want no harvest close the season in certain areas.  This approach has worked for decades.  Now this bull$$it move by the Commissioners who are by the way nothing but appointed political hacks by the governor.  They rammed this through by adding it to their spring agenda at the last minute without much notice to the public.  It was a done deal from the beginning.  Now my Ithaca/Tikka O/U 222 Rem.-12 ga. TURKEY Gun that I have used for many fall seasons is as worthless as those idiots setting on the board of the PGC. :angry9:

Bingo.  For those unfamiliar with PA and our game commissioners...who are complete hacks, this was nothing more than a political play.  One of the recently appointed commissioner's has a long tradition with the NWTF and is the party who proposed the legislation, which was then rammed through as WildTigerTrout mentioned.  I'm all about conservation and boosting turkey numbers, however, those who are familiar with PA and our bass-ackwards legislation are aware that this has very little to do with conservation. 

Quote from: 28roper on April 19, 2021, 10:26:33 AM

Quote from: WildTigerTrout on April 18, 2021, 10:46:03 PM
Pennsylvania has a long tradition of using rifles in the fall for turkey hunting.  Safety concerns have nothing to do with this change in the law.  The statistics do not support that thought at all.  The reasoning put out by the Game Commission is that rifles are more effective and by eliminating their use they could reduce the overall fall harvest.  What a bunch of bull$$it.  In the past, fall turkey harvest has been adjusted by season length. Want more harvest make it longer.  Want less, make it shorter.  Want no harvest close the season in certain areas.  This approach has worked for decades.  Now this bull$$it move by the Commissioners who are by the way nothing but appointed political hacks by the governor.  They rammed this through by adding it to their spring agenda at the last minute without much notice to the public.  It was a done deal from the beginning.  Now my Ithaca/Tikka O/U 222 Rem.-12 ga. TURKEY Gun that I have used for many fall seasons is as worthless as those idiots setting on the board of the PGC. :angry9:

Bingo.  For those unfamiliar with PA and our game commissioners...who are complete hacks, this was nothing more than a political play.  One of the recently appointed commissioner's has a long tradition with the NWTF and is the party who proposed the legislation, which was then rammed through as WildTigerTrout mentioned.  I'm all about conservation and boosting turkey numbers, however, those who are familiar with PA and our bass-ackwards legislation are aware that this has very little to do with conservation.

Kinda like ohio limiting it to one bearded turkey on public land next year. Wtf is that going to do to help the rest of the state? The majority of the public is in the central and southern part of the state, so it's not at all helping the whole state.

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[/quote]Kinda like ohio limiting it to one bearded turkey on public land next year. Wtf is that going to do to help the rest of the state? The majority of the public is in the central and southern part of the state, so it's not at all helping the whole state.

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[/quote]    +1

The sad part of this change to me is for the turkey hunters that have been carrying the traditional PA "turkey gun" - a savage rifle/shotgun O/U combination for 50+ years or in many cases handed from one generation to the next.

If flock survival is the goal ,when a hunter can't use a rifle, they will just switch to a shotgun which is just as effective. No real impact on flock survival.

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Quote from: fallhnt on April 19, 2021, 01:16:06 PM
If flock survival is the goal ,when a hunter can't use a rifle, they will just switch to a shotgun which is just as effective. No real impact on flock survival.

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You've hit the mail on the head. And I believe it's been stated similarly above. The weapon of implementation means little in the grand scheme of things. If they want to improve the flocks, they need to focus more on habitat or limit the total number of birds killed. The Sleepy Creek WMA has done some work to improve the habitat for grouse in the past. I've got no clue how well it worked personally but several guys have seemed to notice good things and at least they tried. Locally and back home in the club it's as if no one can handle seeing trees anywhere. Everything gets leveled for new homes, businesses or pulp wood. It's a true shame. But, such is life I guess.


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I noticed and understand the disdain for the state wildlife management practices.  The folks appointed to these jobs are buddies with some national wildlife federation or another.  Once in place they follow the respects of those organizations just like most who have ties to any cause.  National orgs. should not be mandating what the DNR or legislature does with respect to game management.  A little common sense goes a long ways but they $$$$ comes into play also.  They do surveys here in WV and on occasion the results are put into practice (such as a longer spring season).  The surveys kind of remember me of the "dream sheets" that we experienced in the military.  I live and hunt in WV but prefer to hunt in VA for their common sense simplicity.     

Rifles are banned in the states I hunt.  However I would like to hunt turkeys with a rifle.  Same ethics, 35 yards and in.

Maybe the same person making the game laws is your health secretary.....they are just confused....

The X health secretary of Pennsylvania is now the assistant federal secretary of health, so she is now all of our Country's assistant secretary of health. She was promoted to the federal level by Joe Biden. Now that is scary!


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I said "in SC". Same principle applies to a sport where full camo is the norm. You may be a responsible hunter, the guy drawing a bead on your hand, face or whatever may not be. Hate the tradition lost aspect for you but you won't find much solace on here. I know for a fact I could easily kill turkeys with a rifle each fall from a deer stand, much less effort than chasing with a shotgun which most probably don't bother to do. Fall turkey hunting went away in SC because of popular opinion on it, folks would rather hunt them in spring. Maybe you should be glad you still got a fall season.

Maybe the game dept figures with a rifle you can shoot them at distances where you don't have to worry about them seeing your breath.

Right change, wrong reason.

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Quote from: FL-Boss on April 18, 2021, 10:12:33 AM
Rifles should be banned in every state for turkey - spring or fall.

I 100% agree!!!!!

Too many laws and progressives pushing them. Hate to people losing their way; especially turkey hunters.

Quote from: silvestris on April 19, 2021, 04:35:07 PM
Rifles are banned in the states I hunt.  However I would like to hunt turkeys with a rifle.  Same ethics, 35 yards and in.

As I've stated numerous times before, I couldn't tell you the number of birds I've killed well within reasonable shotgun range with a rifle. With a rimfire, you're still limited in many regards. They don't carry the energy (IMO) to reliably penetrate and kill a bird at distance. Centerfire is clearly a different story and I'm not opposed to that either. Again, target acquisition is paramount. If people had the common decency to make certain what they're shooting at and what's beyond, rifles aren't an issue. Have taken the heads off of more than a couple birds using 22 hornet, .223,  22 WMR and 22 lr over the years. I'll not argue that using a shotgun is more fun. But to limit the use of a particular weapon thinking it's going to save the population... that's been proven not to be the case for some time now. If it's a safety concern, the guy pulling the trigger is clearly at fault.

If they want to do away with rifles for turkeys, they need to do the same with deer. Bring everything back to sharp sticks, spears, slingshots and traditional archery. Just my opinion. If rifles aren't safe for turkeys, they're not safe for deer.


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Quote from: THattaway on April 19, 2021, 06:42:25 PM
I said "in SC". Same principle applies to a sport where full camo is the norm. You may be a responsible hunter, the guy drawing a bead on your hand, face or whatever may not be. Hate the tradition lost aspect for you but you won't find much solace on here. I know for a fact I could easily kill turkeys with a rifle each fall from a deer stand, much less effort than chasing with a shotgun which most probably don't bother to do. Fall turkey hunting went away in SC because of popular opinion on it, folks would rather hunt them in spring. Maybe you should be glad you still got a fall season.

Exactly, in "SC" you all can have it however you want.  PA is a distinctly different state, with a distinctly different hunting and turkey population.  Gun season for deer doesn't overlap with Fall Turkey for the reason you stated above.  Fall turkey doesn't overlap with any other gun season for that matter.  It is unique unto itself.  Hence the argument many on here have made.  It's a political play restricting hunting rights, plain and simple.  Folks on this board arguing against the bill aren't looking for solace, but rather pointing out that a political agenda is swaying game laws.  And that my friend is not good for any of us.

Quote from: knifeshark on April 19, 2021, 05:38:06 PM
The X health secretary of Pennsylvania is now the assistant federal secretary of health, so she is now all of our Country's assistant secretary of health. She was promoted to the federal level by Joe Biden. Now that is scary!


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is she the one proposing reducing nicotine in cigarettes?

some politicians are so stupid. you don't think people addicted to nicotine won't just smoke more to get their fix? nothing but a tax on the poor, yet at the same time i guess some people don't need id to vote cuz that's a tax on the poor lol.

prices better drop then. lol. yeah right. the taxes will probably still rise

Read this thread with much interest because rifle hunting for turkeys has never been allowed here. It seems to me that the the pro rifle guys have made better arguments, especially the statement that if they were concerned about populations then restrict the second tag. If the Commission had had applied both the riffle restriction and the removal of a second tag then it could be said they are doing what they can to help increase the populations. This is not to say these proposals are the be all end all but are helping factors. As to the safety issues, to me Fall deer hunting is allowed with a rifle, so how is that any safer?

Quote from: NCL on April 20, 2021, 12:45:01 PM
Read this thread with much interest because rifle hunting for turkeys has never been allowed here. It seems to me that the the pro rifle guys have made better arguments, especially the statement that if they were concerned about populations then restrict the second tag. If the Commission had had applied both the riffle restriction and the removal of a second tag then it could be said they are doing what they can to help increase the populations. This is not to say these proposals are the be all end all but are helping factors. As to the safety issues, to me Fall deer hunting is allowed with a rifle, so how is that any safer?

You have some good points. The way I see it they want the money from the second tag, would rather upset the rifle hunters than everyone wanting a second tag and are hoping that that lowers the harvest rates enough. If they doesn't work then they have to make everyone mad by reducing tags and loose the income.

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Interesting topic...

Personally, I do not know much about hunting turkeys with a rifle, but I would think that .22.250 would be capable of easily and consistently killing turkeys out to and past 200 yards...  Using such a rifle, I would likely be able to harvest a bird every trip out.  If success rates of hunters went from 10-20% to over 50%, I would think that would take a toll on population numbers.

As Happy stated, there are multiple considerations, including income from licensing and tags (which I have no idea about in PA).  Money generated from such could potentially be used to generate and improve more and better habitat for a variety of game species...  However, my experience with governmnet funding tells me that while the potential is there, it is unlikely that such occurrs.

The safety issues go without saying, and I would hope that there are areas that would be regulated if for no other reason than safety concerns.  With some of the idiots I have run across on public grounds, I cannot imagine safely hunting turkeys if these yahoos were using a rifle.

I have never been a proponent of "if it is legal it is ethical" arguments...  I believe that hunters should be the biggest advocates for ethical hunting, and the most assertive stewards of the resources...  I would hope that hunters themselves would push for more (or less) regulations based on objective data...

I do not know enough about the hunting conditions, or the use of rifles to make an informed opinion about hunting turkeys with rifles in other states...  But I would be adamantly opposed to such in my state.

I've missed way, way more birds in the fall with a small caliber rifle than I have with a shotgun in the spring. Many of those hunts would have been successful had I toted the scattergun instead, so no advantage there. And, I've never lost a bird in the fall.

Perhaps those unfamiliar mistakenly picture guys perched high in permanent deer stands with a 22-250 on sand bags picking off field birds next county over. In the big woods of PA, to be successful one needs to put lots of miles on the boots going up and down those heavily wooded, steep mountain ridges to finally find the scratchings, then maybe find the flock, then try and break them. If broke, set up, try to call them back in (and in my case promptly miss them). That's fall turkey hunting in the big woods, no sand bags, no deer stands, no sniping required.

Banning rifles and handguns won't reverse years of declining populations and these board members voting as if it will are misinformed. That makes the board of directors casting a vote banning rifles, instead of identifying the real reasons for population declines, nothing more than political. And thanks to those politics, a long tradition of break them up and call them back in fall turkey hunting with small caliber rifles and handguns is over.

The lesson here everyone should pay attention too, and other posts have touched on it, once something is gone, its not coming back. Banning rifles was easy political work, when the board of directors should have devoted this time to change seasons, close seasons, reduce tags, address predators, reduce failed nesting rates, increase poult production, and improve habitat, better known as the hard work.

 Turkey , deer , elk , and bear are all considered big game in PA. by the PGC's definition. The endless mountains in Pa. are anything but easy to hunt, the reason rifles are permitted is the hilly hardwood forests. Bullets don't get too far in the mountains. So safety is not the issue here. This is about mismanagement of one of the largest turkey populations in the U.S.A. Now they are claiming we don't have enough, The Ruffed Grouse( our state bird) is all but gone now , another bad  move by the PGC. It is not the hunters that is killing our game birds. It is the failure of the lawmakers , biologists and the commissioners. Blaming and penalizing  the rifle hunters for the decline of the fall  turkey harvest is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500. This is total bull$hit, and I'm tired of the PGC throwing there weight around , and not having any type of referendum on the subject. Let them know! 

I have fall rifle hunted in PA and it never really felt like turkey hunting IMO. 

Quote from: 28roper on April 20, 2021, 08:47:41 AM

Exactly, in "SC" you all can have it however you want.  PA is a distinctly different state, with a distinctly different hunting and turkey population.  Gun season for deer doesn't overlap with Fall Turkey for the reason you stated above.  Fall turkey doesn't overlap with any other gun season for that matter.  It is unique unto itself.  Hence the argument many on here have made.  It's a political play restricting hunting rights, plain and simple.  Folks on this board arguing against the bill aren't looking for solace, but rather pointing out that a political agenda is swaying game laws.  And that my friend is not good for any of us.

I made the assumption deer and turkey seasons overlapped there. Fwiw, someone else here stated rifles should be banned for deer. Apples to oranges really, hunter orange to be exact. Good luck with your efforts in PA.

 :welcomeOG: :popcorn:

I made the assumption deer and turkey seasons overlapped there. Fwiw, someone else here stated rifles should be banned for deer. Apples to oranges really, hunter orange to be exact. Good luck with your efforts in PA.
[/quote]

Yeah it's a bit different here.  There are so many hunters in PA that it would indeed be dangerous if that was the case. Opening day of rifle season for deer is a pretty wild event. Apologies if I misunderstood you.  I get my hackles up when politics or government agencies start creating regulations with a broad brush.

Good luck with the rest of your season as well.

  Good Deal.  As the late Dwain Bland wrote-- Real Turkey Hunters Shoot Shotguns.

Pa. has always had stupid game laws period. Case in point is the 2nd Gobbler tag you can purchase. I can go hunting early in the morning and get my gobbler and then I know a place that holds a gobbler or two 12 miles down the road by Pa. law I cant hunt that gobbler law says 1 per day. The game commission will gladly take your $25.00 for the 2nd gobbler tag but the commish tells you when you can hunt for that 2nd gobbler.

I've been watching this post close since I hunt with my 22 mag in the mountains of Maryland but I will say this. I have thought it was time to become more involved with my states NWTF. I have seen a few posts on here that tend to lean towards turkey numbers decreasing and game management being the reason. I have seen a steady decline in the number of geese on Maryland's Eastern Shore and our season bag limit changed from two to one bird. My firm belief is politicians and lack of proper management. Not so much Maryland but the east coast. I see this occurring with our turkey population and seasons being shortened if we don't start standing up. Not to get too political but kind of like the rest of the crap that's occurring in our country that's not hunting related. We can all sit on the side lines and complain or be part of the solution and come together to be the voice these game managers need to hear. I know there is some perception the NWTF has not done their due diligence judging by some prior posts on this site but I plan to become more involved, attend more meetings of some local chapters and hopefully see for myself and have some input. I know guys in the South complain of spring burning from the wood companies that own the land. Who is our voice for the management of the Wild Turkey and what the hell is going on. I think it's time we make a stand because I certainly don't want this resource to decline. The QDMA guys have seemed to get it right in parts of the state I hunt because we have seen some quality whitetail bucks being killed. Just a thought                             

But, it's going to be a regional thing in terms of turning things around. Much like QDMA, it doesn't work everywhere. QDMA is a joke back home. The mere concept of killing does to improve herd health and getting the buck/doe ratio closer is insane. There's not enough deer there to get excited about. Killing the does won't help any of it. Years ago when the population was insanely high, sure. But definitely not now. And the same will be for the turkey population. I'd bet solid money if they paid more attention to spring hatch/survival rate and put some time into getting the habitat right, there would be a world of change take place. Again, I don't believe for half a second that the weapon dictates population rise/decline in any way, shape or fashion.


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I agree wvmntnhick it's a regional thing. We have seen farming practices change in the last 10 or so years where they chemically burn the fields prior to tiling on some of the places I hunt. I'm sure chemicals can have an impact on these birds. We've had the Bald Eagle make a comeback and I know they are hammering the poults. Some places I now hunt you will see quite a few Bald Eagles perched along logging roads when you normally seen strutting birds tending hens. It's been mentioned about how PA has screwed up the grouse population. When was the last time you have seen sound logging for clear cuts. Just throwing this out there for a bigger picture. Seems like we all have something in common and that's our passion to chase this bird. We can't eat our own because of the way others have different ways of pursuing their passion. I'm more concerned over the reasoning behind making it illegal to hunt them with a rifle and what data they used to come to this conclusion.

Quote from: paboxcall on April 20, 2021, 05:53:45 PM
I've missed way, way more birds in the fall with a small caliber rifle than I have with a shotgun in the spring. Many of those hunts would have been successful had I toted the scattergun instead, so no advantage there. And, I've never lost a bird in the fall.

Perhaps those unfamiliar mistakenly picture guys perched high in permanent deer stands with a 22-250 on sand bags picking off field birds next county over. In the big woods of PA, to be successful one needs to put lots of miles on the boots going up and down those heavily wooded, steep mountain ridges to finally find the scratchings, then maybe find the flock, then try and break them. If broke, set up, try to call them back in (and in my case promptly miss them). That's fall turkey hunting in the big woods, no sand bags, no deer stands, no sniping required.

Banning rifles and handguns won't reverse years of declining populations and these board members voting as if it will are misinformed. That makes the board of directors casting a vote banning rifles, instead of identifying the real reasons for population declines, nothing more than political. And thanks to those politics, a long tradition of break them up and call them back in fall turkey hunting with small caliber rifles and handguns is over.

The lesson here everyone should pay attention too, and other posts have touched on it, once something is gone, its not coming back. Banning rifles was easy political work, when the board of directors should have devoted this time to change seasons, close seasons, reduce tags, address predators, reduce failed nesting rates, increase poult production, and improve habitat, better known as the hard work.

+1  Very well said !


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I don't have a dog in this fight because I'm deer hunting then. But the area I hunt in PA is full of road hunters, driving down the road 5-10 miles a hour in orange, so I know what they're doing.
Most camps that kill a turkey here are riding around looking for turkeys to shoot. Everyone here will agree that's not turkey hunting.