On 3 different occasions I have seen certain symbiotic behavioral pairings of gobblers. Typically one of the gobblers will be old, very large and dominant. He will have with him a younger bird, usually a 2 year old that seems to serve as an assistant or aide. The younger one will only occasionally strut or make any sexual display. I am wondering if the older bird could be in a physical decline due to his age, having lost some of his eyesight and his ability to hear very well and makes use of the keener senses of the younger one. In exchange, the younger bird benefits and learns from the elder the skills of wiliness and his innate sense of survivability.
Has anyone else seen this and what are your thoughts on this pairing?
FC
I think that's a pretty far fetched idea with almost zero chance of being true.
Bodyguard.
Four eyes are a better defense than two. Outside of that, I see no reason for them to pair up this time of year. I've sometime suspected the pairs I ran across were brothers, but without getting DNA samples I guess I'll never know.
Other than just birds being birds, if I were to guess, I'd suspect it's similar to jakes running together.
Strength in numbers. Maybe they fight/attack as one but the younger one still knows his place and the older does the breeding
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I have so much frustration trying to post pictures on this forum it will be a half hearted attempt to post some later. Anyway - we have been working on a big gobbler since he showed on game cameras early this year. Wednesday I went solo and had multiple gobbles in the pitch dark. I wasn't sure if one bird or two. I heard the flydown, got ready, and shot a nice 2 year old at 20 paces. He was moving quickly but stopped when I clucked at him. His mistake. When I stood up I looked left and saw a monster bird beating feet out of the area. I think this was the "Big Boy" we have been seeing at all hours of the day on the cameras. This big gobbler leads a charmed life since the week prior we had him working in hot when a doe smelled us and continued to snort. He figured out something was up and turned and gobbled off. With a week left in the Florida season we'll get out a few more times. Maybe. IMO these 2 year old are satellite gobblers that just like to hang around. Whether they are sentries or not is always a puzzle. In my case the one I shot just hit the ground first and had a destination in mind. There may have been slight hen yelps that he heard. I didn't hear any. He simply wanted to be first in line with the ladies and stay ahead of the bigger bird he had roosted near.
I'll add pictures after an hour or so of reducing their size. Grr!
First picture is what I believe is the gobbler I shot. The camera is located about 100 yards of where I sat and about where I heard the flydown. He is heading in my direction. The light and early fog are about right. Love the cameras.
Next picture will be the "Big Boy". He shows often but is a smart guy. He's not the one from the first picture but is always around. His failure to hit the ground first on Wednesday was in his best interest. We have several pictures of this bird and he may be a Florida Registry candidate. His spurs appear about 2+ inches. We'll see.
Bull. Turkeys have a strict pecking order. If you have five gobblers, there's a #1 through a #5. At at any point in time one of the lesser numbered can and will challenge anyone above him. So a young, strong bird is not going to feel sorry for an older, weaker bird. Compassion is a human thing, not an animal thing. Just the way it is.
The only reason you don't see more gobbler or hen fights (yes they have a pecking order as well) is only due to the fact that those lower in the order don't challenge more often and know their place.
I don't think the OP's idea of motivation is correct, but I have seen the pairings numerous times.
We used to have Mister Natural. Mister Natural used to strut around outside of an old barn on a frequent basis for 3 seasons. He had Silent Bob. Bob would always stay to one corner of the field and display, but never strut or gobble. Bob went through several acolytes of the years-- 1-3 jakes that would stand by Bob but not do anything.
Over the past 20 seasons, we've also had other jakes pair up with gobblers. I've never understood the match-up. However, the pairing can last all season. If I had to guess, I'd say the younger gobblers haven't quite figured out what the deal is yet. They know something important is happening, but they don't know yet how to respond.
I've also seen some pretty gay gobblers that only want to display for other gobs and chase off hens that come near them.
Quote from: Turkeyman on April 16, 2021, 12:06:54 PM
Bull. Turkeys have a strict pecking order. If you have five gobblers, there's a #1 through a #5. At at any point in time one of the lesser numbered can and will challenge anyone above him. So a young, strong bird is not going to feel sorry for an older, weaker bird. Compassion is a human thing, not an animal thing. Just the way it is.
The only reason you don't see more gobbler or hen fights (yes they have a pecking order as well) is only due to the fact that those lower in the order don't challenge more often and know their place.
X2 .. I so agree....
As an addendum. Several years ago I was hunting western OK. There was a group of about ten or more hens and 5 gobblers...all adult strutters...out in front of me. They couldn't care less about any calling I did. All of a sudden, about 9:00, one of the strutters started to leave...that showed me who was the boss! The other four adult toms didn't hesitate...they followed him without hesitation. That was a perfect display of dominance. I have no idea of where or why they went...but they did. Due to the terrain all I could do was sit there like an idiot...which I'm good of at times.
They'll hang out for sure, but make no mistake, they ain't buddies. At least not while there's women involved. The dominant bird might tolerate the subordinate gobbler and I believe that's like was said above—an extra set of eyes—and that they don't perceive them as a threat. But that subordinate bird is just itching to whoop hell out of that old boy first chance he gets. Shoot the dominant bird and watch that other one jump all over him in his moment of weakness. We've had to literally kick them off dead birds. There's no love between them this time of year.
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Over the years, I've observed that the subordinate long beards are usually first to my decoys while the dominant ones hang back.
Sacrificial lamb!
Quote from: guesswho on April 16, 2021, 07:04:32 PM
Sacrificial lamb!
Bingo!
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I see a definite pecking order in flocks. I also see lots of pairs of Tom's where I live. Biggest tom I ever shot got overtaken by jealousy because his subordinate was trying to run around him to get to my decoy. He kept pecking at him and spurring him. It was an awesome show. When the bully got to the decoy, he turned and gobbled at his jr partner, his last gobble ever :funnyturkey: Al
Some of them are homosexuals, and like to hang with other males.
I've seen all types of situations that I do not understand in the gobbler world of breeding.
Last year on one ranch, the birds were grouped up in large flocks of hens/toms/jakes until the hens were on the nest. Often times, the hens would come off the nest to intercept the preceived intruder (i.e. my callin).
I kept expecting the birds to break up into smaller groups, but once the hens were nested, the jakes and toms strolled around in groups together.
I have no idea how to tell a 2 year-old from a 5 year-old? But I have often seen mature birds that seem to roam together most of the season from anywhere from 2-4 birds. I call them "party birds." Sometimes these bachelor groups are less apt to hang up that singles (maybe the numbers give them conifdence?); when they come, they come.