Turkey hunting forum for turkey hunting tips

So I just finished reading an article about the decline of wild turkey. I'm curious if you are seeing this in your areas. In MN we are seeing pretty significant population growth in the past decade or so. But hunting is not nearly as popular here as other parts of the country. Most of the references were places in SE and S Central US.

Are those of you in those parts concerned with the long term viability of wild turkey?

We are doing pretty good with them here where I am in Middle Tennessee/Southwest Kentucky area. I drove past a farm and had to stop counted 30 of them and had to stop it was getting confusing.

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I would think the population is down 50% in Pa.

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Big decline in the areas of Georgia and Alabama I frequent.  Although I have seen more in the last couple of months or so than I have in recent years.  Seeing them in spots I haven't seen turkeys in a long time.   Hopefully that's a trend and not a fluke.

Deer are the same we are allowed 3 does a day all season long in both Kentucky and Tennessee. Kentucky is one buck only and where I am in Tennessee it is 2 bucks.

  I am kind of unique though I just retired from the Army and am 100% disabled I am a Tennessee resident so they give 100% disabled veterans Lifetime Sportsman's Licenses for a $10.00 one time fee. So I use the money I save every year on that and by a nonresident in Kentucky. Plus I hunt Fort Campbell Army Base which is an additional 2 turkey per year 3 does a day and 1 buck. So I can technically kill 7 birds 4 bucks and unlimited does within 15 miles of my house.

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On public land last year in MS during the Covid "working from home time" there were more hunters in the woods than I had ever seen. Tuesday morning there would be a truck every 200 yards when normally mid week it wasn't so bad. Told someone this week I don't know how any birds survived that kind of pressure but I'm sure some did. No doubt in my kind more were killed on both public and private last year due to this.

I'm anxious to find out how much it will affect this year's hunting on public.

Quote from: rakkin6 on January 22, 2021, 08:55:32 PM
Deer are the same we are allowed 3 does a day all season long in both Kentucky and Tennessee. Kentucky is one buck only and where I am in Tennessee it is 2 bucks.

  I am kind of unique though I just retired from the Army and am 100% disabled I am a Tennessee resident so they give 100% disabled veterans Lifetime Sportsman's Licenses for a $10.00 one time fee. So I use the money I save every year on that and by a nonresident in Kentucky. Plus I hunt Fort Campbell Army Base which is an additional 2 turkey per year 3 does a day and 1 buck. So I can technically kill 7 birds 4 bucks and unlimited does within 15 miles of my house.

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Holy cats, there are lakes we can't even keep 3 fish a day. 

I have heard that Georgia and Alabama have had big declines recently. Here in northwest Florida it seems to be trending in that direction as well. I personally think regulations should be changed in the southeast but not super drastically. I've heard some people say that we need closer of fall seasons, and change the limit to 1 gobbler per season. I think if they implemented a regulation where a turkeys beard would have to be over 5 inches or so (eliminating the harvest of jakes) and eliminating the harvest of bearded hens for everyone that isn't a youth, for 2 or 3 seasons, then it would help the populations quite well.

I also believe that last year the harvests were substantially higher then they should've been due to the timing of shutting down the country for COVID. I would expect higher than normal harvests this year due to some people still not working in their place of employment, but not nearly as  high as last year.

Target turkey predators and you'll have more turkey.

Quote from: RiverBuck on January 22, 2021, 09:47:43 PM
Target turkey predators and you'll have more turkey.

Whenever I am now hunting and see a song dog they get an arrow

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Google Dr Michael Chamberlain and listen to the podcasts he has done on various shows. He's a wildlife biologist on the faculty at UGA. He's also an avid turkey hunter. Fascinating. Great deal of information on turkeys and population biology in the South and Southeast.

Significant declines where I live in the mountains of North Carolina. And, sure, partly predators, but for the most part RAIN. Rain during nesting killing the poults. Rain in the after spreading disease. This year we lost almost all the eggs and poults to rain and then all summer it was avian pox. I actually sent one bird off to Mike Chamberlain and it came back with a myriad of diseases, and most all were attributed to wet weather increasing severity.


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Arkansas has experienced a decline over the last 15+ years.  There are pockets with turkeys but overall the population is down.  We have had a continual change in hunting seasons, shortened in length and a fluctuation in opening dates of around April 7-10, to a week later, and back once again to around the 10th.  It will open the 19th this year.  Jakes were restricted to adults and one per youth hunter.  Overall, none of these regulations have made a big difference in the population because of below average and poor hatch success.  Harvest numbers have decreased, but that's more of an indication of days hunted and season timing.  Coinciding with that is an increase in hunting pressure, especially last spring with Covid.

Although some areas fair better than others, the statewide Poult per Hen data shows only one year since 2002 and 2003 above 2.0 PPH.   That year was 2012 and it was reported as 2.80 PPH.   Following that year it was a decline for 5 straight years, with a slight bump in 2019.  In 2018 it bottomed out at .86 PPH.  2019 was .95 and 2019 was 1.13.  It's not a perfect science or measurement, but it is a gauge that is in line with the population.  The coyote population seems to have boomed, and nest predators (coons, possums, etc.) are thriving better than ever with little trapping.  Crows, hawks, and owls seem to be plentiful too.  Hogs have been added to the mix in many areas of the state in the last 10-15 years.   

All the above play a role.  As one previously mentioned, I believe the rain, most especially the timing of the rain, over the span of 15+ years has been very detrimental to not only the nesting success, but also poult survival after hatched.  The driest year was 2012, which happened to be a solid hatch.  I knew from memory it was a better hatch and when checked the data, it was far less rainfall.  We had a wet spring early in 2020, but it seemed to be a little more dry later. 

On a good note I saw some turkeys in spots this fall where I haven't seen any for a few years, and have heard a few similar reports.  Not sure of any data from 2020, but seems a little more promising.  It's just going to take stringing a few consecutive hatches together to see much of a difference. 

Quote from: RiverBuck on January 22, 2021, 09:47:43 PM
Target turkey predators and you'll have more turkey.

I agree 100 % on that.  No one wants to trap or coon hunt in our areas like they would back 20 to 30 years ago.

Central Illinois is way down.  In the early 90s the coons got distemper and were wiped out, the turkeys exploded. Now coons skunks and possums are way up, bobcat and coyotes are thick and I think the bush honeysuckle is a problem, little to no ground cover.

Mike Chamberlain described it best. " Death by a thousand cuts" . Multiplicity of factors, some more controllable than others. Weather, disease, bag limits and season start dates as related to breeding, predators. Poults/hen in the South and Southeast have been declining for at least a decade. There are pockets of relative abundance. Here in Georgia, though, you don`t have to hunt very hard to find folks who will tell you, " Nothing`s wrong, everything`s fine, more turkeys than ever. No changes needed at all".

Quote from: Dtrkyman on January 23, 2021, 09:55:45 AM
Central Illinois is way down.  In the early 90s the coons got distemper and were wiped out, the turkeys exploded. Now coons skunks and possums are way up, bobcat and coyotes are thick and I think the bush honeysuckle is a problem, little to no ground cover.

What part of central IL ? Turkeys were released in the mid to late 80s and modern spring seasons opened in '94-'96 in the counties I live near. A growing, never been hunted, population was fun to hunt. But nature is leveling things out. IL is not a credible turkey hunting state but we hold our own. Public lands that I hunt have plenty of birds, spring and fall, but have continual habitat improvement. That and a spring permit draw system to level out pressure has helped us through the population short falls. A 9 day fall gun season is only available in counties with good populations,less than a 1/3 of the state,leaving fall archery hunters a bounty in fall. Good habitat in IL will carry approximately 30 birds per 1000 acres. I know of one public area that 1/3 of the population is killed every year. That's a very solid result. Hard to argue numbers like that.

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I started hunting turkeys in the late 80s, for the next 20 plus years here in Southern IN the population increased till around 2005 or so. Since then numbers have been falling. Our property used to have a decent population but we've had to hunt else where if we expected to have any success. I never heard a gobble on our 80 last spring and it's in the middle of several hundred acres of great habitat. I think, and it's JMO, that it corresponds to the increased bobcat numbers.

There are a number of possible reasons for declining turkey numbers in regions of the country,...most of which have been listed above by others. What we need are viable solutions, one of which I will propose here:

Turkey populations (or wildlife populations, in general) can reach the point where there are so few of them that they cannot sustain themselves.  Without "assistance" they will eventually disappear.  I would propose that wildlife managers across the country establish "turkey banks". 

What do I mean by that?  Well, there are plenty of places around the country where there are too many turkeys.  That is, there are "nuisance" populations of turkeys that people want to get rid of.  Why not start a "turkey bank" program of taking turkeys from these nuisance populations and putting them in places where populations have plummeted?

Yes, I realize this is exactly how many of our existing turkey populations in parts of the country got established a few decades ago.  The question is, why have we abandoned the "trap and transplant" philosophy that worked so well back then? 

Turkeys have a very high "reproductive potential".  That is, given a good year or two of hatches and poult survival, turkey numbers can increase very quickly.  Now, if you have very few hen turkeys in an area, even if you have a good hatch or two, you still are not going to increase your turkey numbers significantly.  However, if you have more hen turkeys in that population, and then have a good hatch or two, you can realistically increase your turkey numbers dramatically in a short time. 

So, why not have a program of supplementing turkey numbers,...and especially hen numbers,...by moving turkeys from places of plenty to places of concern?  I realize it costs some dollars to do that,....but no more dollars than were spent decades ago in the original T&T programs many states had. 

Yes, this is an "artificial" method of maintaining turkey numbers.  However, there appear to be places where it is the fastest "short term" solution to overcoming seriously declining turkey numbers in areas where that is occurring.  In addition, it is no more "artificial" than what happened those decades ago when our original T&T programs were initiated to expand turkey populations across the country.   

Admittedly, this does not solve the baseline problems that are impacting wild turkey numbers in some regions of the country.  It does, however, help to mitigate those problems by putting more turkeys "out there" so when there is a good year or two of reproductive success, those populations have a much better chance of rebounding.  Not only that, but this does not even consider the very real element of the impacts of adding genetic diversity within those turkey populations which, by itself, might solve one of the problems that might be affecting some populations.

While we are looking for long term solutions to declining turkey numbers in places, let's at least make sure there are enough birds there so that they have the opportunity when those good hatch years come around to take advantage of those conditions.   

Lots of interesting perspectives, thanks for that. Turkey are still expanding into northern MN. Hunter numbers are increasing, but not as fast as the birds. I see hens with a dozen poults well into the summer so survival rate seems high and I can only take 1 in the spring and 1 in the fall. Makes me wonder how I will keep them at bay right now. That's why I was surprised to read other areas are struggling with declining populations.

Plenty of predators here, not to mention winters with snow deeper than they are tall.  But they are thriving! I'll be happy with that!

Quote from: GobbleNut on January 24, 2021, 10:13:11 AM
There are a number of possible reasons for declining turkey numbers in regions of the country,...most of which have been listed above by others. What we need are viable solutions, one of which I will propose here:

Turkey populations (or wildlife populations, in general) can reach the point where there are so few of them that they cannot sustain themselves.  Without "assistance" they will eventually disappear.  I would propose that wildlife managers across the country establish "turkey banks". 

What do I mean by that?  Well, there are plenty of places around the country where there are too many turkeys.  That is, there are "nuisance" populations of turkeys that people want to get rid of.  Why not start a "turkey bank" program of taking turkeys from these nuisance populations and putting them in places where populations have plummeted?

Yes, I realize this is exactly how many of our existing turkey populations in parts of the country got established a few decades ago.  The question is, why have we abandoned the "trap and transplant" philosophy that worked so well back then? 

Turkeys have a very high "reproductive potential".  That is, given a good year or two of hatches and poult survival, turkey numbers can increase very quickly.  Now, if you have very few hen turkeys in an area, even if you have a good hatch or two, you still are not going to increase your turkey numbers significantly.  However, if you have more hen turkeys in that population, and then have a good hatch or two, you can realistically increase your turkey numbers dramatically in a short time. 

So, why not have a program of supplementing turkey numbers,...and especially hen numbers,...by moving turkeys from places of plenty to places of concern?  I realize it costs some dollars to do that,....but no more dollars than were spent decades ago in the original T&T programs many states had. 

Yes, this is an "artificial" method of maintaining turkey numbers.  However, there appear to be places where it is the fastest "short term" solution to overcoming seriously declining turkey numbers in areas where that is occurring.  In addition, it is no more "artificial" than what happened those decades ago when our original T&T programs were initiated to expand turkey populations across the country.   

Admittedly, this does not solve the baseline problems that are impacting wild turkey numbers in some regions of the country.  It does, however, help to mitigate those problems by putting more turkeys "out there" so when there is a good year or two of reproductive success, those populations have a much better chance of rebounding.  Not only that, but this does not even consider the very real element of the impacts of adding genetic diversity within those turkey populations which, by itself, might solve one of the problems that might be affecting some populations.

While we are looking for long term solutions to declining turkey numbers in places, let's at least make sure there are enough birds there so that they have the opportunity when those good hatch years come around to take advantage of those conditions.

Sounds like a sensible solution.

Been hunting since late 80s here in West central Ill. Our turkeys are in trouble. Only maybe 20% of what we used to have and yes I trap so I am trying to help but its pretty bad out there! Spots where you could here 20 or so listening in the spring now its like 5 or 6. Pretty depressing....

Quote from: Bwk on January 24, 2021, 06:20:50 PM
Been hunting since late 80s here in West central Ill. Our turkeys are in trouble. Only maybe 20% of what we used to have and yes I trap so I am trying to help but its pretty bad out there! Spots where you could here 20 or so listening in the spring now its like 5 or 6. Pretty depressing....

Your not alone.

In some areas yes. I think there's 2 big factors here. First is the explosion in the nest raider and especially coon population. 2 things have contributed to that. One is people are allowed to bait deer which provides a ready food source for the little bastards in the cold months meaning more survive the winter. Second, trappers and coon hunters who actually shoot them are becoming few and far between. Back when I was in highschool and college corn piles were for cheaters and during coon season it was nothing for every back road to have a truck with a dog box parked off the the side on any given night. It's just not like that anymore.

The second factor in my opinion is pressure. The season used to come in during the week which I think made for an easier opener, and by easier I mean fewer birds were killed in that first week of the season allowing for more breeding. Now, after they get hammered by every 6 year old in the state during youth season the weekend open means hordes of people hit the woods all at once.

My suggestions.... Longer trapping and coon seasons. Allow trapping on public lands. Move the youth season to after the main season instead of during peak breeding. The weather is better later anyways. Move the opener back to a weekday. Last is consolidate the 2 fall shotgun seasons and drop the bag limit from 1 bearded bird and 3 hens to 1 bearded bird and 1 hen.

Sadly I don't think fw will do much because they are concerned with license sales....

 I live in western Ky myself and have been thinking the last four to five years they have been declining in numbers. I thought it was just me though and never said much about it. Leading up to now I've been hearing more and more people bring it up in counties all over Ky as well as many other states. I really hope the populations start to turn around again for the better but I believe the most logical reasons for the declines have been mentioned already. Based on sign and predator sightings and trailcam pics I really believe the exploding predator population is a big factor at least in our state. A lot of people have no idea how many coyotes, fox, bobcat, coon, skunk, and opossum we really have around here. They are thick here and getting thicker! The larger predators are taking out the mature and young adult turkeys then you've got the smaller ones destroying the population on the younger end of the spectrum such as raiding nests, killing poults, and immature birds. Then you have hunters filling their tags legally, and then hunters filling their tags, their wife's and kids tags, and even their mom and dad's tags illegally. And some just not tagging birds period. I've always hated the telecheck system since day one here in Ky for that reason. Then you throw in the bad hatch years because of weather or just overall bad breeding years and it all just seems to catch up to the flocks sustainability.

  Disease is the only reason that can be applied to all area of the country .....

Quote from: Bwk on January 24, 2021, 06:20:50 PM
Been hunting since late 80s here in West central Ill. Our turkeys are in trouble. Only maybe 20% of what we used to have and yes I trap so I am trying to help but its pretty bad out there! Spots where you could here 20 or so listening in the spring now its like 5 or 6. Pretty depressing....

You just think you have it bad now. Many of us in the southeast would give our left....To be able to hear 5-6 a morning!

My area of KS is down 80% to 90%. 2019 had the lowest poult recruitment ever recorded. 2020 was only slightly better so no help in the near term.

Quote from: old3toe on January 24, 2021, 09:14:08 PM
I live in western Ky myself and have been thinking the last four to five years they have been declining in numbers. I thought it was just me though and never said much about it. Leading up to now I've been hearing more and more people bring it up in counties all over Ky as well as many other states. I really hope the populations start to turn around again for the better but I believe the most logical reasons for the declines have been mentioned already. Based on sign and predator sightings and trailcam pics I really believe the exploding predator population is a big factor at least in our state. A lot of people have no idea how many coyotes, fox, bobcat, coon, skunk, and opossum we really have around here. They are thick here and getting thicker! The larger predators are taking out the mature and young adult turkeys then you've got the smaller ones destroying the population on the younger end of the spectrum such as raiding nests, killing poults, and immature birds. Then you have hunters filling their tags legally, and then hunters filling their tags, their wife's and kids tags, and even their mom and dad's tags illegally. And some just not tagging birds period. I've always hated the telecheck system since day one here in Ky for that reason. Then you throw in the bad hatch years because of weather or just overall bad breeding years and it all just seems to catch up to the flocks sustainability.

Telecheck is a poachers best friend. I know several of the wardens and they told me they simply don't have the time to follow-up on all suspicious entries. They try to follow-up on the obvious ones but when you have one guy covering several counties there's only so much he can do. I'll put it to you like this. I've deer hunted since 1996 and this year was the first year I've been checked. I thanked the guy for checking me and got his card so I could call him directly if I needed to. Those guys are way overworked and even more underpaid

Quote from: deerhunt1988 on January 26, 2021, 06:53:38 AM

Quote from: Bwk on January 24, 2021, 06:20:50 PM
Been hunting since late 80s here in West central Ill. Our turkeys are in trouble. Only maybe 20% of what we used to have and yes I trap so I am trying to help but its pretty bad out there! Spots where you could here 20 or so listening in the spring now its like 5 or 6. Pretty depressing....

You just think you have it bad now. Many of us in the southeast would give our left....To be able to hear 5-6 a morning!

No kidding! 

Very good replies on here...

I think the nest predator population is a big reason."Various studies indicate 10 to 40 percent of nests successfully hatch"....  If 60-90% of your turkey never make it out of the egg, that's where I'd start looking for a solution.

As someone mentioned above, trapping and coon-hunting was much more popular 30-40 years ago than it is today...coincidentally (note the sarcasm) that's also about the time you saw turkey populations start to boom around the country.  Yes, there are a number of factors that contribute but I'd start with the common sense-  the more predators you have, the more prey species are going to be consumed.

I also agree that there are regulations that could help -  back the season up a week or two so that a higher percentage of the hens get bred before hunters start harassing them.  Dont shoot jakes - it's hard for a turkey to go from an egg, to a poult, to a jake, to a mature/breeding gobbler... the more of them that reach two years old, the more hen's that are likely to be bred in the future. 

Also, gobblenut's post about increasing the "turkey bank" and transplanting makes a lot of sense... Hell, we have a post on the forum right now about folks up in the NE having to defend themselves from Turkey attacks... Move those sucker's to the area's where populations are down and it's a win win!

Timber Harvest in the Southeastern US.

Disease plays of role of course, not much diversity in the gene pool in many areas.

I know it's been said but listen to Dr. Michael Chamberlain, he references research conducted by Billy Healey in the 70's-80's.  Dr. Healey was advising later season start dates decades ago, fortunately northeastern states heeded his advice and aren't seeing the declines the southeastern part of the US is seeing.  Kinda eye opening when he talks about how long it takes for pecking order to be reestablished once the dominant gobbler is removed.  The wild turkey is the only game bird outside of the sooty grouse that's hunted during it's breeding season, as far as I know.  We may have to come to terms with season structure changes, starting later in April or beginning of May.  I know this will be a difficult pill to swallow for some but if it benefits turkey populations as a whole then I'm all for it.  Also we as turkey hunters can spend about $15-$20 bucks on dog proof foot traps and help reduce nest predators where we hunt.  I for one get regular pics of racoons in my area and plan to set out a few, trapping is a dying art and we need to do all we can to keep coons, possums, skunks, etc in check. 

Quote from: trkehunr93 on February 01, 2021, 12:17:10 PM
I know it's been said but listen to Dr. Michael Chamberlain, he references research conducted by Billy Healey in the 70's-80's.  Dr. Healey was advising later season start dates decades ago, fortunately northeastern states heeded his advice and aren't seeing the declines the southeastern part of the US is seeing.  Kinda eye opening when he talks about how long it takes for pecking order to be reestablished once the dominant gobbler is removed.  The wild turkey is the only game bird outside of the sooty grouse that's hunted during it's breeding season, as far as I know.  We may have to come to terms with season structure changes, starting later in April or beginning of May.  I know this will be a difficult pill to swallow for some but if it benefits turkey populations as a whole then I'm all for it.  Also we as turkey hunters can spend about $15-$20 bucks on dog proof foot traps and help reduce nest predators where we hunt.  I for one get regular pics of racoons in my area and plan to set out a few, trapping is a dying art and we need to do all we can to keep coons, possums, skunks, etc in check.

If the web traffic is any indication, here in Georgia it looks like the predominant opinion is either " There`s no problem with turkey populations and all you nit wits that talk about changing the season dates are a bunch of whiney babies" or " Catch all the predators ."  It`s interesting how science and what it tells us is fine.......until I`m personally inconvenienced by it. Advocating any change in season starting date will get you roasted.

In SE Virginia and NE North Carolina they are thick!   We have a lot of hens per tom/jake, which some folks around here indicate is an issue in itself.  We have a good many coyotes, bobcats, bears and raccoons as well, but we generally kill as many of all of them (except maybe raccoons) as we can or as the season allows.  Lots of folks turkey hunting too.  Hard to find a place to hunt that somebody isn't already hunting.  We have our fair share of poachers too.  I really don't have an answer to the success of the turkey here.  I do know that the wildlife services began a repopulation program 25-30 years ago.  I know we didn't have any turkeys until the mid-late nineties and I didn't see one until my late 20's (I was born in 1967).  Folks would go around making fake turkey tracks so they could hear people get excited and tell about them.

Ive been trapping to help the ground nesting birds. Ive caught 2 racoons so far. One of them was a giant. I couldn't even give him to a furbuyer. Thats why nobody is trapping.

Quote from: GobbleNut on January 24, 2021, 10:13:11 AM
There are a number of possible reasons for declining turkey numbers in regions of the country,...most of which have been listed above by others. What we need are viable solutions, one of which I will propose here:

Turkey populations (or wildlife populations, in general) can reach the point where there are so few of them that they cannot sustain themselves.  Without "assistance" they will eventually disappear.  I would propose that wildlife managers across the country establish "turkey banks". 

What do I mean by that?  Well, there are plenty of places around the country where there are too many turkeys.  That is, there are "nuisance" populations of turkeys that people want to get rid of.  Why not start a "turkey bank" program of taking turkeys from these nuisance populations and putting them in places where populations have plummeted?

Yes, I realize this is exactly how many of our existing turkey populations in parts of the country got established a few decades ago.  The question is, why have we abandoned the "trap and transplant" philosophy that worked so well back then? 

Turkeys have a very high "reproductive potential".  That is, given a good year or two of hatches and poult survival, turkey numbers can increase very quickly.  Now, if you have very few hen turkeys in an area, even if you have a good hatch or two, you still are not going to increase your turkey numbers significantly.  However, if you have more hen turkeys in that population, and then have a good hatch or two, you can realistically increase your turkey numbers dramatically in a short time. 

So, why not have a program of supplementing turkey numbers,...and especially hen numbers,...by moving turkeys from places of plenty to places of concern?  I realize it costs some dollars to do that,....but no more dollars than were spent decades ago in the original T&T programs many states had. 

Yes, this is an "artificial" method of maintaining turkey numbers.  However, there appear to be places where it is the fastest "short term" solution to overcoming seriously declining turkey numbers in areas where that is occurring.  In addition, it is no more "artificial" than what happened those decades ago when our original T&T programs were initiated to expand turkey populations across the country.   

Admittedly, this does not solve the baseline problems that are impacting wild turkey numbers in some regions of the country.  It does, however, help to mitigate those problems by putting more turkeys "out there" so when there is a good year or two of reproductive success, those populations have a much better chance of rebounding.  Not only that, but this does not even consider the very real element of the impacts of adding genetic diversity within those turkey populations which, by itself, might solve one of the problems that might be affecting some populations.

While we are looking for long term solutions to declining turkey numbers in places, let's at least make sure there are enough birds there so that they have the opportunity when those good hatch years come around to take advantage of those conditions.

Our state is doing just fine with turkey populations....if you asked F&W or civilians they would tell you we have a turkey problem (in some portions). '21 initiatives include raising the bag limit and allowing rimfire for fall hunting during general gun season.

But we are a state that turkey's are Non-Native and although there is plenty of state without turkey that could sustain turkey or other places that could use a little boost  by moving the "problem" birds the state wont do it! Even if done by volunteer money because of the Non-Native part.

I'd love for a state to say they needed some birds so that we could give them away instead of wastefully shooting them away as F&W is progressing our rules to allow landowners to do. Because again they are a "nuisance"

    Kylongspur that's exactly right too. We have big issues as far as that's concerned. The wma's I hunt are never checked hardly. I talk to a local warden here on occasion and i was telling him how I'm tired of the atvs and dirtbikes running everywhere. And how they've gotten really bad the last three or four years. He agreed they have and assured me they are doing all they can to catch and prosecute everyone they can and do catch on them. I didn't deer hunt the last two seasons because of some health issues but the 2017 and 2018 seasons almost every hunt I had to listen to atvs, side by sides, and dirt bikes. One particular hunt a guy and girl rode by me on a side by side and kept passing through. I assumed it was because they seen my vehicle parked at the head of the road bed. Anyway they kept raising hell on it til almost dark. I wasn't far from it. Then before they left they started slinging donuts up where I was parked. When I came out of the woods I checked things out and they had rocked my SUV on the gravel road. The ruts were so close to it I don't know how they didn't hit it! It was covered in fine pebbles and dust all over the front, windshield, and hood. I do my best to stay out of peoples way out there but things wouldn't have went so well if I would have witnessed it.
   Bottom line though like you said is there just isn't enough wardens to enforce the laws and stop this kinda thing and especially the poaching.

Great discussion.  Been listening to Michael Chamberlain based on recommendations here. Very interesting.

Quote from: HunterS5 on February 04, 2021, 11:25:48 PM
Great discussion.  Been listening to Michael Chamberlain based on recommendations here. Very interesting.

Mike's one of us in addition to being a professional wildlife biologist. I personally think we should pay heed.

In NJ the numbers have went up last year by 111 covid birds, the numbers in general have been on a roller coaster every year since 2006 when the state records showed its highest numbers 3,454 birds harvested legally, and the lowest number in 2019 at 2,739.

Quote from: Turkeytider on February 05, 2021, 05:49:19 AM

Quote from: HunterS5 on February 04, 2021, 11:25:48 PM
Great discussion.  Been listening to Michael Chamberlain based on recommendations here. Very interesting.

Mike's one of us in addition to being a professional wildlife biologist. I personally think we should pay heed.

In southern Missouri where I live we had a ice storm back in 2000 and 2009. Ever since then hardly any turkeys. Just now I am starting to see more but I have been trapping for a couple years pretty hard. Killed a few bobcats while deer hunting and called in coyotes and killed them.
I do believe this has had a positive impact on our turkey. However Missouri's trapping season closes January 31 so you cannot trap in the crucial months leading up to the nesting season. I do believe this has been a key in the statewide turkey population decline. I wish they would open it up like they do in the south.


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Get rid of some coons and crows and you will start seeing more turkeys, don't matter when you open the season they are still going to raid the nest and wipe out more turkeys than the hunters ever will.

Predators, weather, disease,

I'm wondering if this article sheds a lot of light on what is happening?

https://www.poconorecord.com/news/20180429/west-nile-virus-is-lead-suspect-in-ruffed-grouse-decline#:~:text=West%20Nile%20virus%20is%20a%20lead%20suspect%20in,percent%20mortality%20rate%20in%20a%20controlled%20lab%20setting.

Quote from: Gooserbat on February 07, 2021, 08:38:42 AM
Predators, weather, disease,

Correct on all counts, it`s a multiplicity of factors. Mike Chamberlain calls it " Death by a thousand cuts. " Any one thing or attempted remedy will have a positive impact, but there`s probably no single magic bullet. Discussing(arguing? ) tactics is fine. It`s the people who simply will not entertain the notion that populations in certain areas are in decline are the ones that drive me nuts. The population science, for them, reveals " inconvenient truths " that do not match the reality that they wish to see. Here in Georgia, there are areas that have good populations and too many hunters, IMO, extrapolate what they see in those pockets to the state as a whole. Some folks go so far as to say that they don`t care what the wildlife biologists like Dr. Chamberlain have to say. That`s a dangerous attitude IMHO.

I know some of it is habitat too, I can remember period of way more birds where I have family land in NE Pa. While there are more coyotes and fishers now i also see less foxes and racoons and such. But what I have witnessed is the old farm habitat is 20yrs older. Timber is open and over mature, apple tree have been choked out or diseased, oaks have been cut and replaced by maple and beech. Pasture field have turned over to woods and dense saplings. There's a lack of food and mast as well as proper nesting habitat.

We do habitat improvements on our 60 some acres and hold birds better than the neighboring properties but it doesn't impact population on such a small size.

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Quote from: eggshell on February 07, 2021, 09:19:16 AM
I'm wondering if this article sheds a lot of light on what is happening?

https://www.poconorecord.com/news/20180429/west-nile-virus-is-lead-suspect-in-ruffed-grouse-decline#:~:text=West%20Nile%20virus%20is%20a%20lead%20suspect%20in,percent%20mortality%20rate%20in%20a%20controlled%20lab%20setting.

According to research done on west nile and its impact on wild turkey populations, they can contract it but it is not generally fatal.  I believe the study inferred that, even if turkeys contract west nile, they are likely to recover from it.

I think the question about whether poultry diseases, in general, have a significant impact on turkey populations is a valid one.  Not sure if that has been adequately researched to assess the cumulative impacts of disease on wild turkeys. 

Those are good points Gobblenut and the current studies do suggest that west nile isn't a significant cause of Wild Turkey mortality, but they also said that it didn't kill dogs....I had a setter that didn't know that and died from it. Do you know of any recent studies that looked at poult mortality from avian diseases, including West Nile. Back when I was rearing fish there were a lot of diseases we watched out for, but some that normally weren't lethal would knock the living crap out of your stock if it got into them at certain early life stages. Just throwing another ingredient in the soup.

Quote from: Turkeytider on February 07, 2021, 09:33:37 AM
Some folks go so far as to say that they don`t care what the wildlife biologists like Dr. Chamberlain have to say. That`s a dangerous attitude IMHO.

Most of the serious turkey folk (and even wildlife professionals) who have an issue with Dr. Chamberlain is because some of what he says is theory and not yet based on scientific evidence. The theory is almost being preached as gospel and folks are taking to it. Making decisions based on theory, that is also a dangerous attitude. The fear is that once states start taking away hunting opportunity (reduced season lengths and bird limits), that we very well may never get that opportunity back. And it is very possible that these reductions could not help the turkey situation at all. Just look at Arkansas.

Hopefully some the great turkey research on the horizon will clear the air on some things. I sure hope, for the sake of the turkey.

Well until theory becomes gospel we could do away with tss shells, blinds, decoys and fans. I bet the gobbler population would increase dramatically and the whining about a lack of turkeys would decrease as well.

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Quote from: Happy on February 07, 2021, 11:54:59 AM
Well until theory becomes gospel we could do away with tss shells, blinds, decoys and fans. I bet the gobbler population would increase dramatically and the whining about a lack of turkeys would decrease as well.

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Add corn piles and chufa fields to the list as well.  Blinds, decoys, and fans are things that really swing the advantage to the shooter though.   I think pop up blinds may contribute to the death of gobblers more than anything else mentioned above.  And I guarantee you, blinds are almost always used in combination with bait and decoys.  Take away blinds and most guys couldn't sit motionless and comfortably long enough to kill a turkey.  But newer blinds can almost conceal a recliner and movement is never an issue.  It's a huge advantage


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Quote from: snoodcrusher on February 07, 2021, 12:47:09 PM

Quote from: Happy on February 07, 2021, 11:54:59 AM
Well until theory becomes gospel we could do away with tss shells, blinds, decoys and fans. I bet the gobbler population would increase dramatically and the whining about a lack of turkeys would decrease as well.

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Add corn piles and chufa fields to the list as well.  Blinds, decoys, and fans are things that really swing the advantage to the shooter though.   I think pop up blinds may contribute to the death of gobblers more than anything else mentioned above.  And I guarantee you, blinds are almost always used in combination with bait and decoys.  Take away blinds and most guys couldn't sit motionless and comfortably long enough to kill a turkey.  But newer blinds can almost conceal a recliner and movement is never an issue.  It's a huge advantage


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Personally don`t use an artificial blind of any kind. I love being in the woods enough to sit still for a long time and just watch what`s going on around me. The primary goal is to harvest a turkey but it`s not the only goal . It`s enough of the goal to where I do use a decoy in open areas, however.

Archery gear only would really help increase the number of toms.

Quote from: snoodcrusher on February 07, 2021, 12:47:09 PM

Quote from: Happy on February 07, 2021, 11:54:59 AM
Well until theory becomes gospel we could do away with tss shells, blinds, decoys and fans. I bet the gobbler population would increase dramatically and the whining about a lack of turkeys would decrease as well.

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Add corn piles and chufa fields to the list as well.  Blinds, decoys, and fans are things that really swing the advantage to the shooter though.   I think pop up blinds may contribute to the death of gobblers more than anything else mentioned above.  And I guarantee you, blinds are almost always used in combination with bait and decoys.  Take away blinds and most guys couldn't sit motionless and comfortably long enough to kill a turkey.  But newer blinds can almost conceal a recliner and movement is never an issue.  It's a huge advantage


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If this is true, then hunting harvest is too high. One way to reduce harvest is to reduce success rates via the methods you suggest. But another way would be to reduce bag limits.

Quote from: HunterS5 on February 12, 2021, 11:42:09 PM

Quote from: snoodcrusher on February 07, 2021, 12:47:09 PM

Quote from: Happy on February 07, 2021, 11:54:59 AM
Well until theory becomes gospel we could do away with tss shells, blinds, decoys and fans. I bet the gobbler population would increase dramatically and the whining about a lack of turkeys would decrease as well.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Add corn piles and chufa fields to the list as well.  Blinds, decoys, and fans are things that really swing the advantage to the shooter though.   I think pop up blinds may contribute to the death of gobblers more than anything else mentioned above.  And I guarantee you, blinds are almost always used in combination with bait and decoys.  Take away blinds and most guys couldn't sit motionless and comfortably long enough to kill a turkey.  But newer blinds can almost conceal a recliner and movement is never an issue.  It's a huge advantage


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If this is true, then hunting harvest is too high. One way to reduce harvest is to reduce success rates via the methods you suggest. But another way would be to reduce bag limits.

So limiting the harvest of gobblers by any of these means will bring back the wild turkey to numbers previously obtained . Dang hens lay the eggs last we checked in the real wild anyway. Shooting the crap out of them in your area are they?
So stop the mushroom hunters from finding and using the turkey eggs to roll the mushrooms in before frying them. That will fix it.

Quote from: trkehunr93 on February 01, 2021, 12:17:10 PM
I know it's been said but listen to Dr. Michael Chamberlain, he references research conducted by Billy Healey in the 70's-80's.  Dr. Healey was advising later season start dates decades ago, fortunately northeastern states heeded his advice and aren't seeing the declines the southeastern part of the US is seeing.  Kinda eye opening when he talks about how long it takes for pecking order to be reestablished once the dominant gobbler is removed.  The wild turkey is the only game bird outside of the sooty grouse that's hunted during it's breeding season, as far as I know.  We may have to come to terms with season structure changes, starting later in April or beginning of May.  I know this will be a difficult pill to swallow for some but if it benefits turkey populations as a whole then I'm all for it.  Also we as turkey hunters can spend about $15-$20 bucks on dog proof foot traps and help reduce nest predators where we hunt.  I for one get regular pics of racoons in my area and plan to set out a few, trapping is a dying art and we need to do all we can to keep coons, possums, skunks, etc in check.

Curious as to how long it took to sort out the pecking order in their study? Do you remember?

My father guided in SW Florida for 15 years and we routinely could kill a gobbler out of a flock on one day and within 1-2 days he was replaced. I've always thought that the subordinate gobblers are always within ear shot of the dominant bird and are almost constantly trying to find ways to single out a hen or takeover. This happens the entire time they're on the ground I'd bet. Fairly quickly they notice he isn't there and will scoot right in.


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The elimination of all true crutches would be beneficial to the turkeys and more beneficial to the turkey hunters remaining as well.

Quote from: SD_smith on February 13, 2021, 01:05:14 AM

Quote from: trkehunr93 on February 01, 2021, 12:17:10 PM
I know it's been said but listen to Dr. Michael Chamberlain, he references research conducted by Billy Healey in the 70's-80's.  Dr. Healey was advising later season start dates decades ago, fortunately northeastern states heeded his advice and aren't seeing the declines the southeastern part of the US is seeing.  Kinda eye opening when he talks about how long it takes for pecking order to be reestablished once the dominant gobbler is removed.  The wild turkey is the only game bird outside of the sooty grouse that's hunted during it's breeding season, as far as I know.  We may have to come to terms with season structure changes, starting later in April or beginning of May.  I know this will be a difficult pill to swallow for some but if it benefits turkey populations as a whole then I'm all for it.  Also we as turkey hunters can spend about $15-$20 bucks on dog proof foot traps and help reduce nest predators where we hunt.  I for one get regular pics of racoons in my area and plan to set out a few, trapping is a dying art and we need to do all we can to keep coons, possums, skunks, etc in check.

Curious as to how long it took to sort out the pecking order in their study? Do you remember?

My father guided in SW Florida for 15 years and we routinely could kill a gobbler out of a flock on one day and within 1-2 days he was replaced. I've always thought that the subordinate gobblers are always within ear shot of the dominant bird and are almost constantly trying to find ways to single out a hen or takeover. This happens the entire time they're on the ground I'd bet. Fairly quickly they notice he isn't there and will scoot right in.


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It's not just the pecking order with the toms. The hen makes the selection and goes through a process to do so. How long it takes her to do so, I'm not sure, but I believe Mike Chamberlain addresses that in some of his pod casts.

That is true as well, forgot about that piece. 


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Quote from: HunterS5 on February 12, 2021, 11:42:09 PM

Quote from: snoodcrusher on February 07, 2021, 12:47:09 PM

Quote from: Happy on February 07, 2021, 11:54:59 AM
Well until theory becomes gospel we could do away with tss shells, blinds, decoys and fans. I bet the gobbler population would increase dramatically and the whining about a lack of turkeys would decrease as well.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Add corn piles and chufa fields to the list as well.  Blinds, decoys, and fans are things that really swing the advantage to the shooter though.   I think pop up blinds may contribute to the death of gobblers more than anything else mentioned above.  And I guarantee you, blinds are almost always used in combination with bait and decoys.  Take away blinds and most guys couldn't sit motionless and comfortably long enough to kill a turkey.  But newer blinds can almost conceal a recliner and movement is never an issue.  It's a huge advantage


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If this is true, then hunting harvest is too high. One way to reduce harvest is to reduce success rates via the methods you suggest. But another way would be to reduce bag limits.

That would help as well. Point is most dont get it. We should be stewards first and foremost. Biologists and studies are all well and good. However they are a small drop in the bucket and could use all of the help they can get. But we as people are happiest when we can blame anything but ourselves and have other people fix it for us. Heaven forbid we show some restraint and maybe give back to what we claim means so much to us. Heaven forbid we kill a few less turkeys this year.
The fact of the matter is we are the single biggest threat to the wild turkey. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that maybe some changes in that department would help things a bit.
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I'm only allowed one. I would hate to have my limit reduced! 

Quote from: HunterS5 on February 13, 2021, 08:26:01 AM
I'm only allowed one. I would hate to have my limit reduced! 

And you probably have a decent population. You probably are a little more picky before you pull the trigger as well.

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Quote from: Happy on February 13, 2021, 08:14:52 AM

Quote from: HunterS5 on February 12, 2021, 11:42:09 PM

Quote from: snoodcrusher on February 07, 2021, 12:47:09 PM

Quote from: Happy on February 07, 2021, 11:54:59 AM
Well until theory becomes gospel we could do away with tss shells, blinds, decoys and fans. I bet the gobbler population would increase dramatically and the whining about a lack of turkeys would decrease as well.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Add corn piles and chufa fields to the list as well.  Blinds, decoys, and fans are things that really swing the advantage to the shooter though.   I think pop up blinds may contribute to the death of gobblers more than anything else mentioned above.  And I guarantee you, blinds are almost always used in combination with bait and decoys.  Take away blinds and most guys couldn't sit motionless and comfortably long enough to kill a turkey.  But newer blinds can almost conceal a recliner and movement is never an issue.  It's a huge advantage


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If this is true, then hunting harvest is too high. One way to reduce harvest is to reduce success rates via the methods you suggest. But another way would be to reduce bag limits.

That would help as well. Point is most dont get it. We should be stewards first and foremost. Biologists and studies are all well and good. However they are a small drop in the bucket and could use all of the help they can get. But we as people are happiest when we can blame anything but ourselves and have other people fix it for us. Heaven forbid we show some restraint and maybe give back to what we claim means so much to us. Heaven forbid we kill a few less turkeys this year.
The fact of the matter is we are the single biggest threat to the wild turkey. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that maybe some changes in that department would help things a bit.
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No way that I could agree more with this. For far too many of us, everything`s fine with any changes or "restraint", right up to the point that it inconveniences "Me" or somehow goes against my preconceived notion of reality ( which is usually based on what benefits " Me " ). Dr. Mike Chamberlain, an avid turkey hunter as well as wildlife biologist specializing in turkey biology and population dynamics, has said that the single biggest threat to the wild turkey gobbler in the Spring walks on two legs. I believe that personally.

We self-impose a one turkey/hunter/season limit on the almost 600 acres that four of us hunt here in Georgia that has a three bird/season limit.

Agreed. We have to include ourselves in the group of predators and not just try to kill all the predators that are non-human.

We have crazy number of turkey thriving in major metro areas. It's not because the habitat is better! It's the reduced number of predators (hunters included) that's allowing the population to grow. Even in the most sub par habitat.

We need to remember that hunting is a privilege. And just like the wild life, we too have to adapt as populations change.

   The New York Turkey Population  definitely  is increasing  in my area.

AR has had a steady decline for several years, getting worse as time goes by. There are pockets of birds as mentioned previously, and those folks are lucky! MO has seen a steady decline as well... on one of our farms we used to see 300-500 birds wintering, the last few years the numbers have dropped drastically, like 150-200 birds. You could hear 5-10 gobblers at select locations, and now 1-3 is the norm. Leks are broken in many of our areas and there isn't a lot of competition between toms or hens for that matter. I'm no biologist but I do understand the factors in play here...reading the reports and looking at our specific areas it makes sense. I wish there was a more scientific way of dealing with it, and there might be... but I am not the person to figure it out. I will do my part as a conservationist to assist this great birds survival for the next generations to hunt. If you have better ideas than your local biologist, don't be scared to let them know. Worst they can do is take credit for your advice... which you would be happy with and it helps out the birds. Win win! Don't just sit on forums and complain, be the catalyst for change!

Also note: I'm not saying anyone here is complaining, just a generalized statement.

WV has declined from its hey day in the mid 80's.  We have more predators now in the form of coyotes and way higher numbers of avian predators (hawks, eagles and owls).  The weather seems to be our biggest factor though, we have had several cold wet springs which hurts nesting hens because they give off more scent when they are wet.  The poults are also very susceptible to cold and wet conditions.

A friend of mine from WV used to go to one of the Carolinas, I believe South Carolina, every Spring and kill several birds in a week.  His sister married a fella there that was an outfitter.  He retired and moved there and says they have way fewer birds now, he blames it on the wild pigs destroying the nest.

Quote from: trkehunr93 on February 01, 2021, 12:17:10 PM
I know it's been said but listen to Dr. Michael Chamberlain, he references research conducted by Billy Healey in the 70's-80's.  Dr. Healey was advising later season start dates decades ago, fortunately northeastern states heeded his advice and aren't seeing the declines the southeastern part of the US is seeing.  Kinda eye opening when he talks about how long it takes for pecking order to be reestablished once the dominant gobbler is removed.  The wild turkey is the only game bird outside of the sooty grouse that's hunted during it's breeding season, as far as I know.  We may have to come to terms with season structure changes, starting later in April or beginning of May.  I know this will be a difficult pill to swallow for some but if it benefits turkey populations as a whole then I'm all for it.  Also we as turkey hunters can spend about $15-$20 bucks on dog proof foot traps and help reduce nest predators where we hunt.  I for one get regular pics of racoons in my area and plan to set out a few, trapping is a dying art and we need to do all we can to keep coons, possums, skunks, etc in check.

I don't see the difference in the season starting times. Spring down south comes earlier than up north.
Heck here in MO north to south can be a good week or two apart as far as gobbling and greenup.
Late April for Florida turkey season??

Quote from: owlhoot on February 13, 2021, 04:39:20 PM
I don't see the difference in the season starting times. Spring down south comes earlier than up north.
Heck here in MO north to south can be a good week or two apart as far as gobbling and greenup.
Late April for Florida turkey season??

Surprising enough, the breeding seems to kick off up here in MN and WI starts about the same time it does in places like SC. It's not uncommon to see hens being bred in March up in these parts.

Quote from: simpzenith on February 13, 2021, 05:07:27 PM

Quote from: owlhoot on February 13, 2021, 04:39:20 PM
I don't see the difference in the season starting times. Spring down south comes earlier than up north.
Heck here in MO north to south can be a good week or two apart as far as gobbling and greenup.
Late April for Florida turkey season??

Surprising enough, the breeding seems to kick off up here in MN and WI starts about the same time it does in places like SC. It's not uncommon to see hens being bred in March up in these parts.

Interesting. Bred in march in wi, mn. Seen it here in Mo before due to warm early spring and those years by the time mid April hit was a slow gobbling season.  But a few years I experienced that exact thing for sure.  Could have been all weather related I guess or henned up toms in the south and up north they were not. Just have seen the difference from north to south Mo.
Many years  I thought the season started to early here . Based off their activity and the fact of wearing deer hunting clothes to turkey hunt, lol

Quote from: WVBeagleMan on February 13, 2021, 03:21:37 PM
WV has declined from its hey day in the mid 80's.  We have more predators now in the form of coyotes and way higher numbers of avian predators (hawks, eagles and owls).  The weather seems to be our biggest factor though, we have had several cold wet springs which hurts nesting hens because they give off more scent when they are wet.  The poults are also very susceptible to cold and wet conditions.

A friend of mine from WV used to go to one of the Carolinas, I believe South Carolina, every Spring and kill several birds in a week.  His sister married a fella there that was an outfitter.  He retired and moved there and says they have way fewer birds now, he blames it on the wild pigs destroying the nest.

To my knowledge there have been no studies indicating that hogs are a significant nest destroyer, certainly not in the same league as coons, skunks , snakes. One of the most interesting things I`ve learned is that studies have shown that coyotes, while they`ll certainly take an adult turkey , are not a major predator of adult turkeys. Bobcats, great horned owls , and, of course, us, different story.

Quote from: Turkeytider on February 13, 2021, 05:42:21 PM

Quote from: WVBeagleMan on February 13, 2021, 03:21:37 PM
WV has declined from its hey day in the mid 80's.  We have more predators now in the form of coyotes and way higher numbers of avian predators (hawks, eagles and owls).  The weather seems to be our biggest factor though, we have had several cold wet springs which hurts nesting hens because they give off more scent when they are wet.  The poults are also very susceptible to cold and wet conditions.

A friend of mine from WV used to go to one of the Carolinas, I believe South Carolina, every Spring and kill several birds in a week.  His sister married a fella there that was an outfitter.  He retired and moved there and says they have way fewer birds now, he blames it on the wild pigs destroying the nest.

To my knowledge there have been no studies indicating that hogs are a significant nest destroyer, certainly not in the same league as coons, skunks , snakes. One of the most interesting things I`ve learned is that studies have shown that coyotes, while they`ll certainly take an adult turkey , are not a major predator of adult turkeys. Bobcats, great horned owls , and, of course, us, different story.

So a hog wont eat anything dang near that it comes across.

Quote from: owlhoot on February 13, 2021, 05:59:22 PM

Quote from: Turkeytider on February 13, 2021, 05:42:21 PM

Quote from: WVBeagleMan on February 13, 2021, 03:21:37 PM
WV has declined from its hey day in the mid 80's.  We have more predators now in the form of coyotes and way higher numbers of avian predators (hawks, eagles and owls).  The weather seems to be our biggest factor though, we have had several cold wet springs which hurts nesting hens because they give off more scent when they are wet.  The poults are also very susceptible to cold and wet conditions.

A friend of mine from WV used to go to one of the Carolinas, I believe South Carolina, every Spring and kill several birds in a week.  His sister married a fella there that was an outfitter.  He retired and moved there and says they have way fewer birds now, he blames it on the wild pigs destroying the nest.

To my knowledge there have been no studies indicating that hogs are a significant nest destroyer, certainly not in the same league as coons, skunks , snakes. One of the most interesting things I`ve learned is that studies have shown that coyotes, while they`ll certainly take an adult turkey , are not a major predator of adult turkeys. Bobcats, great horned owls , and, of course, us, different story.

So a hog wont eat anything dang near that it comes across.

Oh sure it will. Didn`t mean to infer that a pig would never eat turkey eggs, just that I`m unaware of any studies indicating that they are a significant threat to nests, as opposed to the other critters. They might happen upon a nest as opposed to skunks and snakes that make a living out of eating eggs.

Quote from: Turkeytider on February 13, 2021, 09:07:03 PM

Quote from: owlhoot on February 13, 2021, 05:59:22 PM

Quote from: Turkeytider on February 13, 2021, 05:42:21 PM

Quote from: WVBeagleMan on February 13, 2021, 03:21:37 PM
WV has declined from its hey day in the mid 80's.  We have more predators now in the form of coyotes and way higher numbers of avian predators (hawks, eagles and owls).  The weather seems to be our biggest factor though, we have had several cold wet springs which hurts nesting hens because they give off more scent when they are wet.  The poults are also very susceptible to cold and wet conditions.

A friend of mine from WV used to go to one of the Carolinas, I believe South Carolina, every Spring and kill several birds in a week.  His sister married a fella there that was an outfitter.  He retired and moved there and says they have way fewer birds now, he blames it on the wild pigs destroying the nest.

To my knowledge there have been no studies indicating that hogs are a significant nest destroyer, certainly not in the same league as coons, skunks , snakes. One of the most interesting things I`ve learned is that studies have shown that coyotes, while they`ll certainly take an adult turkey , are not a major predator of adult turkeys. Bobcats, great horned owls , and, of course, us, different story.

So a hog wont eat anything dang near that it comes across.

Oh sure it will. Didn`t mean to infer that a pig would never eat turkey eggs, just that I`m unaware of any studies indicating that they are a significant threat to nests, as opposed to the other critters. They might happen upon a nest as opposed to skunks and snakes that make a living out of eating eggs.

No studies needed probably. Now coyotes may not have a ton of success with catching turkey but they still try alot. A fella can sure call in a few during a season, they like decoys too.  lol.
One thing that I didn't realize is that the crows were so good at finding nests and raiding them. A quick study with trail cameras over nests showed that one. Not sure but I believe it was done by some simp who posts here and is on youtube.

 Lots of interesting points! Just got done reading all 6 pages of this.

For the last few years fur/predators have not been worth any money at all. 2-3$ on a coon, average! 12-17$ for a fox, 15-22$ for a yote. For you older guys that remember the BEGINNING of the turkey boom. It followed the last real fur boom. 40$ coon, 80$ fox. Young men put their self through college on that money. Today, you can't put gas in your truck with money made from fur. I personally could make more money at McDonalds than trapping! I only do it for the fun and challenge.

My brother from WV, "figuratively speaking" noted Avian predators. Well men,there's a hawk setting every half a mile on the phone wire. Here where I live, eagles are a dime a dozen. Ravens!!! Oh my the ravens.  See, back in the day. These three things so far coincided together. People used to kill these birds of prey! People trapped, turkeys flourished.

Too much wet weather with cool temps in the spring=peeps lose
Not wet enough out Midwest/West= peeps lose
Ground Predators= peeps lose
Avian predators= peeps lose
Disease= peeps lose
Over hunting= peeps lose
Loss of habitat= peeps lose
Insecticide= peeps lose
Herbicide = peeps lose
Manure on habitat introduction of biowaste chemicals =peeps lose

What of these can YOU control? Lots of factors, this is a few.

Kill ever coon and crow you see not a cure all but it will help.

I do think raccoons are making an impact but not a huge one. I had a pretty good trap line in the late 70 through the 80 to early 90s. I also was a partner in a fur auction and I professionally graded furs. The bust of the fur market cost  me literally thousands of dollars. When I first got married we literally lived off fur money in the winter. We purchased all our home furniture off fur too. It sucks, that people who have absolutely no idea of how nature works thought they had to do something righteous and attack an industry they had no inkling on how it worked. Now, we see unchecked predators impacting other wildlife and dying of disease and the Hollywoods have no clue. What if we could magically make all the coons with distemper show up in their yard.....LOL. They'd be calling the police and demanding someone do something. The Nancy Ps are in power now , so we're gonna see more of this crap

Just stopped to admire a winter flock of turkeys. 23 birds. 20 years ago it wouldve been 230 birds.

Quote from: nativeks on February 14, 2021, 03:52:01 PM
Just stopped to admire a winter flock of turkeys. 23 birds. 20 years ago it wouldve been 230 birds.

Dang same thing in Mo.
Can't believe we shot all those boss gobblers and the leftover toms won't step in until its too late.
Dint know I was that good a turkey killer. LOL