Inspired by Gadget's transformed Savage 220A, I have acquired a Savage 220A and will either modifiy it or a Baikal MP18 into a single shot 20 gauge "turkey only" gun with either a camo dipped or painted surface, recoil pad, red dot, sling, and turkey choke with barrel work. The more I look at the Savage, the more I can't bring myself to alter it as it is in very good condition. I am suffering Vandal's remorse. I don't think I'll get warm fuzzy feelings about the MP18 and it may be the ideal candidate. Cheaperthandirt has a great price on the MP18 which is available in .410 bore, 20 and 12 gauges. I have one on order. I like the idea of a "hammerless" gun. I will update as progress is made. Here's an earlier thread on 20 gauge single shot turkey guns:
http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,9329.0.html
We have worked on a lot of the Baikal. We have did chamber work and chokes to make hunting and target guns. We have gone all the way to a 1 inch 36 inch long built barrel on them. It is a good platform to start with. They make it in a trap gun. It has longer barrel, vent rib, screw in chokes and is ported. :anim_25:
William, I'll definitely be in touch. The Baikal has a 26" barrel and is chambered for 3". A good deal for $91 and $11 shipped. Gil
How much does that MP18 weigh? It states on Cheaper Than Dirt that it's 9lbs. Is that a misprint? I'm interested in the single shots as well, but not at 9lbs.
The 9 lbs. is probably a mistranslation from the Russian. I was told 5.3 lbs. or less by a man who can read Russian and got info from a Russian forum. He owns the 12 gauge MP18 and told me his weighed 5.5 lbs. He added weight for duck hunting. When it gets in I'll post the weight. Gil
Vandal's remorse? :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
FC
That sounds more like it! Keep us posted on her progress!
What about the lever for breaking it open? Looks like it would be in the way and easy to accidentally break the gun open.
The lever is not conventional, but it takes more than a tap to break the gun open. I don't see it being in the way with the gun across a knee, making a shot or any more obtrusive than a red dot sight or scope in carrying it in the woods with or without a sling. I considered a hammer gun, but there are issues with an exposed hammer, cocked and uncocked, that folks seem to work around okay.
I'm interested in the weight myself, I may build me up 1 of them after I hear a few reports from you guys. That would be a nice light tote for some of the public lands I hunt. How about a review when you get it as to the overall quality of a 100$ shotgun and a pattern or two. I would appreciate it.
Also I guess you have to get it threaded for a choke also?
Yes, turkey choke will be installed. I hope to have the "before" photos up this weekend. The Baikal is set for delivery tomorrow.
Post it up, I'd like to see it as well :anim_25:
Quote from: USAFTurkey on June 13, 2012, 09:40:10 PM
What about the lever for breaking it open? Looks like it would be in the way and easy to accidentally break the gun open.
The TC Encore opens pretty much the same way with its combination release/trigger guard mechanism. The TC's actually extends out more than the Baikal's. I haven't read any problems with it releasing accidentally. In fact, the only complaint I've read about the TC Encore is its cost. ;)
Quote from: killdee on June 14, 2012, 05:56:39 PM
Also I guess you have to get it threaded for a choke also?
Is it not a screw in choke threaded for the Tru-choke pattern?
If I go with the Savage, it has to be Tru-Choke; not sure about the Baikal, to be determined.
Vital statistics on Baikal MP18 26" bbl vs. Savage 220A 28" bbl
wgt: Baikal 5 lbs., 5.7 oz.
Savage 5 lbs. .7 oz.
Barrel thickness at muzzle: Savage: .078"
Baikal: .110"
Choke: Savage: .590
Baikal: .600
Barrel OD at 26": Savage: .747"
Baikal: .820"
Despite a 5 oz. heavier wgt., the Baikal makes a better platform for modification for me. YMMV. Thicker steel in the barrel, modern steel; 3" chamber, synthetic stock and I don't feel bad about painting and cutting up the Baikal compared with a gun that might be older than I am. The Savage has a very nice trigger; the Baikal okay, but with a little creep. That can be remedied. At $91, it's a very good deal. The barrel is overbuilt. I've seen a London proof house report where a Baikal 12 gauge was test fired with a 20 gauge shell in front of the 12 gauge. Slow motion photography showed slight expansion at muzzle with no damage and a return to shape as the loads passed through. I hope to get the gun to Sumtoy in a couple of weeks for barrel and choke work. Here's the photos. Most impressive is muzzle to muzzle. That's some serious steel in the Baikal.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/AchmedSylvaniaBaikal020.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/AchmedSylvaniaBaikal023-1.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/AchmedSylvaniaBaikal024.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/AchmedSylvaniaBaikal022.jpg)
Wow' Great thread. Just bought a Savage 220A 20 gauge and a Remington SPR 100, 20 gauge by Baikal . Had taken a few youngsters out this year and 2 of them wiffed at less than 20 yards. Thought to build up a single hammerless gun for them. After watching all the 20 gauge pattern posts decided to really build it for my self and let them use it when I take kids. Any way, kinda having the same feelings of remorse about altering the Savage. I'll keep a close eye on this thread as it progresses. May also have to pick up one of those Baikal MP18's from Cheaper than dirt just for fun! Doug
Doug, I'd recommend the Youth Model Baikal MP18 for 20 gauge. It has a 24" barrel with plenty of thickness for threading a choke at that length. It has a 13" LOP which I wish I had so that I could add a slip on pad for increased padding. The pad on the gun, if it comes with a synthetic stock, sits on a curved buttplate. I would be difficult adding a better pad unless it is a slip on pad. The pad isn't that great, but it'll have to do. Take off the slip on pad when kids use it. Cheaper than dirt has it for about $100.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/baikalbuttstock001.jpg)
Yall are convincing me that I need 1 of these, thats really a good looking shotgun for that price. What are the Savages going for now, I mentioned wanting 1 last year and got a pm from a guy on another forum wanting 600$. If you wanted an adult only model would yall still go with the youth and add the extra pad. All the kids I have taken in the past are full size now and can take me instead!!!!
Prices for the Savage 220A are all over the park. All it takes is two people wanting the same one at Gunbroker to drive a price up. I got very lucky on what I paid. If I were to do it over again with the Baikal, I might buy the Youth model as the platform and add a slip on pad to increase LOP and give better recoil absorbtion than what comes with the gun. Changing out pads on the synthetic stocked gun appears to be problematical.
Looks like the youth model comes in both synthetic and a wood stock. I've never added a slip on pad that had a good fit, but just had a cheapo one for my son's first gun. Any add on pads that secure well? Since the gun will get painted or dipped is the wood stock easier to work with adding a regular Limb Saver pad to? The synthetic stock does look thinner at the front and may be more comfortable. The barrel will have to be threaded, so cutting an adult barrel to say 24" or 25" shouldn't present an issue. I'm not sure if shorting the barrel gives a gunsmith more or less to work with for threading for chokes. At least this was my plan when I picked up the Remington SPR100 made by Baikal in 20 gauge. It has a 28" barrel.
Hayoudog,
According to William at Sumtoy, the Baikal I have has more than enough steel at the muzzle to thread. I may leave as is at 26" or cut off an inch. Uncle Mike's and Limbsaver both make slip-on pads of various sizes. I have an Uncle Mikes on my Mossy Super Bantam and it has no issues of movement. The synthetic stocked Baikal would be difficult to fit a limbsaver or any aftermarket pad other than a slip on because the factory pad is intregal with the buttplate and the buttplate is curved. See photos and discussion above.
Very interesting, I like your approach very much.
Sounds like that will make a amazing light weight killer.
Quote from: n2deer on June 24, 2012, 05:14:47 PM
Very interesting, I like your approach very much.
Sounds like that will make a amazing light weight killer.
Thanks. I sure hope so. I dropped it off at Sumtoy yesterday. I'll leave it at 26" barrel length with a threaded choke and lengthen forcing cones. I'm setting it up for TSS9s. William will work on the trigger and mount a base for the FFIII. Looking forward to see how it shoots. Gil
Quote from: gobblergls on June 24, 2012, 05:35:29 PM
Quote from: n2deer on June 24, 2012, 05:14:47 PM
Very interesting, I like your approach very much.
Sounds like that will make a amazing light weight killer.
Thanks. I sure hope so. I dropped it off at Sumtoy yesterday. I'll leave it at 26" barrel length with a threaded choke and lengthen forcing cones. I'm setting it up for TSS9s. William will work on the trigger and mount a base for the FFIII. Looking forward to see how it shoots. Gil
Me too, What load do you plan to run?
If I get decent numbers with the old 1 oz. TSS load, the one that has the 28 gauge wad inside the 20 gauge wad, that load would be the most practical. I see no reason the 1 oz. won't considering its excellent performance in my 20 gauge Super Bantam which has a 22" barrel.
Nice looking gun; what choke system is it being threaded for??
Tru-choke threads. Trying out two variations of Sumtoy .5625. Hope to shoot it tomorrow early before temps soar. Yesterday temps were 106 in the shade in Glennville.
Since this is a thread about a project gun, I'll post the pattern photos here to keep the thread intact. I shot this morning with temps at 78 degrees, heavy humidity and no wind. I shot the 1 5/8 oz TSS9 load both buffered and unbuffered. The unbuffered placed 188 inisde the 10"ring, and 231 between 10 and 20 rings. The buffered, 250 inside 10" and 248 between 10 and 20". I'm pleased with the performance so far and especially the work that William of Sumtoy did in this project. The trigger is crisp and light. The barrel with choke is 27.75" long, but considering it doesn't have the action of a pump or auto, the overall length is equivalent to a 25" barreled auto or pump. I don't think the gun would lose much if the barrel was 2" shorter. The 1 5/8 oz. load I wouldn't want to shoot on a dove field, but is tolerable in the gun. If I had to do it over again, I'd go with the Youth model so that I could double up on the recoil pad with a slip on pad. The gun as shot today weighed 5.25+ lbs without sling or FFIII. I'll start the painting this week.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/BaikalPatterns005.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/BaikalPatterns008.jpg)
Nice, cant wait to see it when your all done. I need to get to work on some kind of turkey project.
My last one was a 12g citori, and i have a small youth condor i plan to camo, its a 20.
Its around 5.5 also and about as long as my arm. Lol
Very nice set up!! Looking forward to seeing the paint job.
Quote from: gatrkyhntr70 on July 02, 2012, 08:10:46 PM
Very nice set up!! Looking forward to seeing the paint job.
You set high standard with the job you did on yours. I primed it yesterday and put the first coat on. However, the Rustoleum camo (khaki) didn't have the label "bonds with plastic" while the other cans did. Didn't catch difference until this a.m. So, out of precaution, I sanded it off and reprimed tonight with plastic primer both the stock and forend. Better safe than sorry. Gil
Thanks for the update and patterns. William has my 870 20 gauge project and when I get it finished I intend to build a single shot also. I hit the Eastman show last Saturday here in Marietta looking for a Savage 220 but older guns are few and far between in those shows. Unless your looking for pistols, assault rifles or zombie killing weapons, dont waste your $. I have a old H&R Topper 20 I could build, its just a 2-3/4 chamber but with TSS thats all you need anyway,but I do like the idea of a hammerless gun.
Quote from: gobblergls on July 02, 2012, 08:46:53 PM
Quote from: gatrkyhntr70 on July 02, 2012, 08:10:46 PM
Very nice set up!! Looking forward to seeing the paint job.
You set high standard with the job you did on yours. I primed it yesterday and put the first coat on. However, the Rustoleum camo (khaki) didn't have the label "bonds with plastic" while the other cans did. Didn't catch difference until this a.m. So, out of precaution, I sanded it off and reprimed tonight with plastic primer both the stock and forend. Better safe than sorry. Gil
I dont blame you deffinately better safe then sorry. I like the home xamo jobs alot they add alot more caracter to the gun. keep us posted :icon_thumright:
Happy July 4th, from the Khaki Russian! Enjoy your brewskis, rockets and barbecue briquettes red glare!
Here are some photos of the gun disassembled after priming and with overcoat of Rustoleum Khaki. The plastic stock and forend required a couple of coats of primer and overcoat. The gun is reassembled and placed in attic until tomorrow evening. I will then use male stencils to begin a woodlands camo job. I decided that it would be more difficult to use female stencils because of the stock contours and I anticipated problems of keeping stencils flat to surfaces. I found the stencils on line at http://www.potato-gun-plans.com/category/paint-military-camo-stencils/ The cost was $6 after applying the 25% discount. I opted for woodlands. Since I'm using the male cutouts from the stencils, the finished product won't resemble what you see depicted. We'll see.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/001-5.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/002-4.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/003-3.jpg)
:thanks: Thank you for the stencil site info. Your project is looking very good -- keep posting your updates!
Your gun looks to be coming along great. My Remington SPR100 Baikal 20 barrel goes into the mail today to Sumtoy.
Watched an American Guns episode last night and one of the gunsmiths was using a stencil material that was being cut out and then pealed to stick to gun. I remembered that when I used hard mylar stencils how difficult it was to get the stencil into sharp bends, and corners. After watching the show I'll bet that using something like "Avery label" paper would work. Cut the stencil out just as would and then peal and stick it to the gun. The bad... it wouldn't be re-usable. Not sure if the sticky would be too sticky and peal the under paint. I used painters blue tape one time to make a reed pattern on my son's beat up 870 and that worked fine.
Keep up the good work- I'm following your footsteps.
Doug
Doug, one tip the paint ball stencil site suggested was spraying the male stencil with a tacky non- permanent adhesive such as Krylon Tact. 3M also makes a "repositional adhesive" spray mount that I'm using. I plan on attaching all stencils at one time and for painting hold the gun upright with a piece of wood held by my Workmate and wedged into the open stock. This would allow spraying and drying all sides at once. The Avery label paper sounds like it might work as well. Good idea. I'm using card stock rather than the mylar or acetate recommended. I wasn't about to pay $50 for a pack of overhead projector acetate. The card stock appears to be flexible enough to fit depressions, curves, etc. One concern when peeling the tape or material is lifting paint. One option that I'm considering to prevent this is to soak the gun, lock, stock and barrel in my bathtub with hot, soapy water to help dissolve the bond if necessary. Since there is no wood in the gun, this won't hurt a thing.
While the re-priming and re-painting of the stock and forend seems to have held satisfactorily, I wasn't satisfied with the metal work painting. It easily scratched and chipped down to the bluing. I had degreased the gun, but it being new, the bluing seemed to interfere with the primer adhering to the barrel and receiver. In about an hour and half, with a sanding block and medium grit emery cloth, I took the paint and bluing off down to the bright metal which is something I should have done in the beginning. All has been primed. I'll add another coat with priming. Stenciling with cardstock and repositional adhesive doesn't hold well on curves and contours. I'm considering covering both sides of cardstock with blue painter's tape and print it with the stencil pattern. This will yield two sets of male stencils when cut out and some of the tackiness will wear off when removed from the cardstock. A work (and education) in progress.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/003-4.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/002-5.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/001-6.jpg)
Was thinking the same thing. There is a special blue tape that is for "just primed or painted" surfaces. It has a less tacky glue. Bought some at the hardware store today. They had some that came all the way to 4" wide. I bought the 2", figured I could make it wide if I needed it. I'll cut my stencils out of it.
Should have read the forum this morning. My barrel is in the mail to William. I had some time today, so I Sanded and painted the wood, and metal parts that are still at home. Did a primer and base coat. Seeing that you have taken yours down to raw metal now I'm hoping I haven't jumped the gun. One thing I can say is that I will take the barrel down to raw metal when it gets back. I have a metal etch material that may work on removing the bluing. I know that the petroleum jelly that removes rust will remove bluing also.
Thanks for the update.
Doug
Doug, a lot of guns have been painted with bluing still intact so you may be okay. This gun was NIB and that might have been the difference. It had a fairly slick finish. I covered one side of card stock with the blue tape and printed a stencil. Before cutting out, I covered the other side as well. Since I'm cutting male stencils, I used scissors rather than an Xacto knife. It was much faster to cut with scissors and I have twice as many stencils per sheet by doubling up. I re-primed with two coats and after 4 hours from the last coat, put a topcoat of Khaki on. I'll allow it to dry for 24 before stenciling.
Keep us posted, forum slows down after season and its nice to have something interesting and informative to read.
Quote from: killdee on July 08, 2012, 10:18:38 AM
Keep us posted, forum slows down after season and its nice to have something interesting and informative to read.
Yep.. X-2. I'm sure she's gonna look great. :anim_25:
First photo shows it being taped up in the vertical position. After running out of the stencils from the paintball stencil site (link above), I free-hand cut out the remainder with scissors rather than print up more from the PDF. Useful tip: I used the tip of the Xacto knife to drag along the tip of the end of a male stencil cut-out to "tease" up the tape and grasped the teased up point with tweezers. This really sped things up as I had initially tried to "split" the tape off the cardstock with the edge of the knife. This more often split the card stock rather than separate the tape from the card stock. Second photo is after spraying with dark olive drab. I'll let it cure for 24 hours, then tape again with stencils to balance OD with dark brown. Stay tuned.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/002-6.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/005-4.jpg)
Looks like you are on the fast track. I always hate to wait for paint to dry.....Best if I paint and then go fishing.
lookin good!!
I applied the dark brown this morning and stripped the tape at lunch. I'll hand paint the black. I'll tone out the lightest color, khaki. I've got an idea of a unique black design in a female stencil. After a week of the gun in the attic, I'll spray on an acrylic matte finish overcoat or two. I'll then mount sling and FFIII( once its back from Burris).
Lessons learned:
Prepare surfaces; do more than just degrease. Rough up with sandpaper. I eventually had to remove the first paint job and remove all bluing with medium emery paper. YMMV. The gun was new out of the box and I should have realized that the slick bluing wouldn't hold paint as well as the bare metal. I had tried degreasing then painting, but the paint wouldn't adhere to the bluing very well. Prime with two coats before topcoating. I had to use a plastic friendly primer for the stock and forend and an automotive body primer for the metal. Between topcoats, allow 24 between coats hours to cure. Otherwise, curing will be delayed.
It is easier to use male stencils rather than female stencil on a shotgun due to its compound curves. I bought online stencils for $6 at http://www.potato-gun-plans.com/category/paint-military-camo-stencils/. The instructions suggested using male stencils on some tasks. After getting an idea what they looked like, it was easier to freehand cut my own designs. This will save a lot of time. I covered both sides of 8" x 11" cardstock with painter's blue tape. I bought the 1.75" edge block tape at HD. I cut out the design with scissors. On each male cut out, I had two stencils, front and back. The remaining female stencil was a source of material for more male stencils. The easiest way to lift the tape off the card was to "tease" it off at a narrow end with the point of an Xacto knife and then lift with tweezers. When you tape each layer, visualize that you will be preserving the color underneath. I wanted to maximize the lighter colors so I kept that in mind. I waited 24 hours before applying the next coat. After the last coat, I used a plastic spudgeon ( a tool for removing cellphone cases) to lift one end of the tape and pulled with tweezers. I had zero paint lifts with this technique.
I can't give enough praise about the advice given and work done by William Lambert of Sumtoy. Same can be said about making the TSS9s available and the work and $$ he has spent developing loads. Tungsten shot is in the top 3 of modern turkey hunting innovations as far as I'm concerned.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/006-2.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/007-1.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/002-7.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/003-5.jpg)
Looks good. And it looks like you've had fun doing it. Great tips. I've got a new youth model arriving soon. Barrel arrives at Sumsoy for the Remington Baikal on Thursday. This has been a fun thread to keep tabs on.
Looks good. :z-winnersmiley:
Great pattern. Looks awesome!
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/001-8.jpg)
That's awesome with the turkeys shadowed in. :icon_thumright:
Sweet looking shotgun. What kind of choke does it take? I would assume Rem Choke or Pro-Bore Chokes.
Very cool. Wish I would have thought of it. May have to do a west coast edition!
Quote from: ncturkey on July 11, 2012, 11:02:28 PM
Sweet looking shotgun. What kind of choke does it take? I would assume Rem Choke or Pro-Bore Chokes.
Thanks. Tru-choke threads, 44 tpi. Sumtoy .5625 choke. Gil
Gobbler Stencil:
I bought a sheet of mylar from a local blue print shop for a dollar. It's the size used for real estate survey plats. Adapting a technique from the early whaling days, where whalers would paste magazine drawings on sperm whale teeth and with a pin, prick the outline of the drawing with a pin into the tooth to start the process of scrimshaw, I found an image online of a gobbler walking. I printed it out and used temporary spray mount to fasten it to the thin mylar. With my Xacto knife, I carefully cut the image out creating a male and female stencil. Stubborn bits of the paper stuck to the mylar but I soaked it in water and easily rubbed the remainder off. I used the female stencil to image the stock. The coathanger-fishing weight, wine cork and unseen toothpick on the blindside of the cork, is a "doofus". I use it to hold down surface mount parts for electronic soldering. I taped the mylar to the stock and a portion of the stencil had to be held down with the doofus for better contact with the convex surface of the stock. On the more radical curves, the mylar would not fully adapt to the complex curves. I made the stencil out of the blue tape, with several overlapping layers fastened to cardstock to give the stencil more body. I used the mylar stencil to spray the image onto the tape and cut it out with the Xacto. One has to carefully peel the tape away from the stock, holding down the male image with a pointed object and lift around the edges. The tape stencil has limited life and is a "shape shifter" so it has to be finagled into position, but it does a good job in the curved areas. I masked off the shotgun with newspaper, tape and trash bags. It only took 10-15 minutes for the image to dry to the touch. I've got 9 months to think of what to do next. The Mad Russian has been a fun project and thanks for looking over my shoulder and the kind comments.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/003-6.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/002-8.jpg)
And the crowd goes wild! :happy0064: :happy0064: :happy0064: :happy0064: Great finishing touch!
I really like it, maybe a trail of tracks next or a tom on a limb gobbling.... I bought the mossy bottomland film to finish my 870 20 but yours and a couple more custom paint jobs is prompting me to hurry up and find my next project gun so I can paint it. I had already started rounding up stuff for a paint job before I ordered the mossy film. I appreciate this post so's I can avoid making a bad paint job on the metal parts. I build Homebrew trail cameras and have been custom 3-d'ing and camo painting them for many years now.
Great job and thanks for posting how you did things. I am thinking about doing this to one of my Baikal over and unders.
excellent job!!! Love the stenciled gobblers!
I must have more time on my hands than the law allows judging by the time I'm spending on this project. Beats the heck out of yard work in this heat and it's a lot more fun. I've been experimenting on a clear coat for the barrel and receiver. I have marine epoxy and peel ply surplus to a boatbuilding project. One trick with fiberglass is the use of "peel ply", a fine weave nylon. In laying up fiberglass, there are two kinds of bonds between layers—chemical and mechanical. Chemical is best and is accomplished by layering before curing. Mechanical allows curing between coats. Roughing up the surface with sandpaper before next coat is mechanical. A shortcut without using sandpaper is the use of the fine weave nylon which is placed atop fiberglass tape or cloth after it is wetted thoroughly with mixed epoxy. The nylon is peeled off when the epoxy sets leaving a matte finish for better adherence for the next coat. I wetted up some aluminum tubing and covered it with peel ply to see if the finish after drying is sufficiently dulled by the nylon. I'll know by tomorrow when I remove the nylon from the tubing. If it works, this will be a significantly tougher clear coat than spray on acrylic. Colorfast nylon ribbon might be a good substitute for peel ply if the experiment works.
In the meantime, to do something constructive other than sit around watching epoxy set-up, a more complex stenciling was done on the other side of the stock. Between the front leg of the first gobbler and the last leg of the bigger gobbler, it required 3 male stencils to make the pattern. I sprayed the mylar with the Scotch Spray Mount Repositional Adhesive to position all stencils, the larger female and 3 smaller males. It turned out nicely. Tweezers were needed to align the male stencil. How many more days before Georgia's spring season? I can't wait.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/001-9.jpg)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/004-5.jpg)
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Peeled off the nylon wrap. Matte finish, but prismatic effect makes it shine in direct sunlight. Will use light coat of acrylic matte finish. Here's a comparison in direct sunlight of gun barrel and tubing with peel ply finish on marine epoxy. In normal hunting conditions it would work fine and probably not a factor even in direct sunlight, but the difference is apparent.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/003-8.jpg)
Getting closer to the end. Quick Detachable Swivel Bases arrived from Midwayusa today. Midway # 366960 ($2.59), Uncle Mike's Sling Swivel Stud 115 B Set, looked about right online, and as luck would have, it fit perfectly. The front stud replaced the machine screw holding the front end of the forend release latch and threaded perfectly into the retaining plate inside the forend. How many more times will that happen in my lifetime in "some assembly required" projects? I carefully drilled the hole for the stock working my way up in drill bit sizes to just below the OD of the threads. The stock stud is threaded for wood. If I had to do it over again, I'd order two sets of the 115 B set and use the extra machine screw stud and nut in the stock rather than the wood screw. However, it went through three layers of styrene so it should hold. Two of the layers are a hollow cylinder of plastic which runs the stock length for the butt plate screws. The Claw sling and swivels add another 5 ozs. to the rig, bringing it to 5 lbs, 13.7 oz. The stock stud must clear the end of the buttplate screw, so be careful if you go my route with this gun. Still waiting for the FFIII from Burris and it should be here soon (hopefully). It will add .7 oz. to the rig. I could shave weight off the gun by cutting 6" off the barrel to 20" leaving an overall length of 22" with the Sumtoy extended .5625 choke and replacing the steel mount with the Burris FFIII 336 mount. William at Sumtoy said he could mill a flat spot on the barrel to accept the base without sacrificing much metal. The chamber thickness is over .18" at the chamber. However, I like having 28" overall length barrel in this gun. As it stands, it is more than a pound lighter than my tricked-out Super Bantam with a 22" barrel.
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Faced with the choice of cutting the grass or piddlin' with my summertime turkey gun project, I decided to make a paracord sling which is more fitting for my project than a store bought one. After all, this is a cheap gun in the cost sense. Fullchoke clued me in on a source of quality paracord on ebay. I bought 100' of 550 9 strand for $9.50 delivered from sharkman_tackle. It got here quickly. I boiled it to pre-shrink it and found instructions on the knot on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCY2WRyJ6Nk While the instructions are for a bracelet, it was easy to figure out how to make a sling using the same technique. I cannibalized my old 835's swivel set and cobbled up a frame to hold the swivels and cord. I used a loser's campaign sign which was corrugated plastic to make shuttlecocks to hold the line. They were effective until I got to the last 6" where I made thinner shuttle cocks and finally fids out of coat hangers. I spent half the morning driving around trying to find the aluminum binder posts to make the best type of fid, but a corollary of Murphy's law is that one will never find the exact materials or parts necessary to complete a project in accordance with instructions from a written source.
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Below is a pattern that I shot today using a Pure Gold .570 and Kyle Smith's recipe for 1 oz. Tungsten Super Shot. This load utilizes a wad in a wad. William of Sumtoy said that his wad strippers in his unperforated choke will only strip the first wad and not the "sabot" 28 gauge wad which holds the shot. We tried it in William's chokes and he was correct. Best we could get was a 100 in the 10". He said it would take a perforated choke to strip both wads which would tighten the pattern. Using the PG .570 with 1 oz. of TSS9s (376 per ounce in this batch) at 40 yards, 124 in the 10" ring and between 10 and 20", 157. Shooting it out of a 5.75 lbs. gun was not bad and it's plenty dense enough to be a good hunting round. I'd like to find a 1 oz. load that utilizes 1 wad. William's choke does such a good with the other loads, I'd like to find a 1 oz. load that would work better in it. I believe a 1 oz. load, buffered, with only one wad would tighten things up better than Kyle's load which is unbuffered.
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I helped this gal across the road today on the way to patterning. Box Turtle slate call? I couldn't live with myself killing a box turtle deliberately.
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Great job on his rig, man! Making yer own stuff is fun!
FullChoke
I like it!!!! Thats a very impressive 1oz. pattern. Thats a smart way to lighten the kick in such a light weight rig. My 670 is like 7.1/2#'s and will rock you back with the 1-7/8 tss. I may look at a 1-1/4 size load myself, the 1-7/8 is overkill at 40 with 320-350 in the 10.
Wow- looks like you are still having fun. It looks great and keeps looking better. Should have my barrel back soon from Sumtoy. It better hurry. Duck season is just around the corner and I'll be knee deep ...literally. Antelope for 10 days in N. Cali. 9 Days in Oregon- archery elk. Duck season starts early Oct. Think my wife has a week planned for me at Lake Tahoe. Not enough time.
Killdee, Hayoudog, thanks. It's keeping me busy. Doug, be sure and post your gun when it gets back and you have time to work on it. Sounds like your life is planned for the immediate future. I'm trying out two-three loads tomorrow, a single wad, 1 oz, with and without buffer, and a 1 5/16 oz. load, buffered. Killdee, I find the 1 5/8 oz. to be overkill. Can't imagine the 1 7/8 load out of this gun. I'd need a shoulder transplant for sure. Gil
Not only has this project been fun, it has given me an opportunity to reflect on hunting loads for turkeys. In my career, I have run the range of gauges and loads. I have shot double-barreled 10 gauges with maximum hand loads of 2.5 ozs. all the way down through 7/8 ozs. of Tungsten 9s out of this 20 gauge $91 single-shot. I have witnessed the race to see how many tungsten 9s can be shot into a 10" ring at 40 yards.
For a turkey load, it is not important to me to see how many multiples of a 100 pellets I can shoot into the 10" circle at 40 yards. I seek a balance between reliable lethality and recoil. If performance in the 10"-20" ring is passable, the 10" ring usually takes care of itself. I am done with "cross your eyes, rattle your teeth" loads. To me, the ultimate round is one that reliably anchors a bird with minimal risk of crippling (the bird and me) and loss at 40 yards. This Friday I believe I have completed my quest for relatively light 20 gauge loads capable of 125-150 TSS 9s (18 g/cc) in the 10" ring at 40 yards with about as many in the 10-20" ring. Shirking job responsibilities last Friday, I spent the morning hand loading and patterning. I shot 1 5/16 oz. 18 g/cc tungsten 9s (367 per oz. by hand count) at 40 yards. The load reportedly is 1089 fps. Behind the target, I set up an empty gallon olive oil can. Some may ask: What's that stunt prove? Why isn't he at work? Does he have a life? Good questions. Ignoring the last two, there are at least two possible answers relevant to turkeys and turkey hunters. 1) It is demonstrative evidence of the penetration of small tungsten shot at 40 yards. 2) It is fair warning to turkeys that thin steel body armor is pointless and you, Mr. Tom and your ilk, have just over 7 months to get your affairs in order and say your good-byes.
The 1 5/16 oz. load obviously has milder recoil compared with the 1 5/8 oz. load of 9s that I have successfully shot the past two seasons. The 1 5/8 oz. load is past overkill for my purposes as far as number of shot within the 10" ring. (page 2 of this thread, buffered and no buffer load photos) With my Sumtoy .5625 and the 1 5/16 oz. load, I shot 153 inside the 10" ring and 171 between 10" and 20" rings. (photo below) The results are slightly better than the Kyle Smith 1 oz. load which patterned 124/157. (photo a few posts up on this page.) Either load would be mild enough for children and wimps like me and sufficiently dense at traditional hunting ranges. The Kyle Smith load performs significantly better out of a ported choke such as a Pure Gold which serves to strip the main wad and the sabot 28 gauge wad better than a non-perforated choke. The Kyle Smith load (1250 fps) has less felt recoil than the 1 5/16 oz. load and would seem to be a better choice for some small-bodied children. The 1 5/16 oz. load has more felt recoil, but not much worse than the 1 oz. load, and is more than tolerable for small adults. I was not successful with the "one wad" 1 oz. load. That is a work in progress, but I may have to sit back and let someone else develop that one. Best I could do with it was 104 in the 10" ring. However, I am confident that I could shoot either the double-wad Kyle Smith load of 1 oz. or the 1 5/16 oz. load for the rest of my turkey hunting days out of my 20 gauge guns and not be under-gunned if I take disciplined shots, which is what we are supposed to do anyway, right? Except sometimes all hell breaks loose and discipline is tossed out the window to make the shot. Holding a gun barrel still on a wide right shot off my right shoulder is not my favorite for precision shotgunning. Will I abandon the 1 5/8 oz. load in favor of the lighter loads? Probably not. The heaviest load fills up the 10"-20" ring better than the lighter loads. (see page 2 of thread for photo of load with and without buffer.) I have made miracle snap shots on close in birds with my old 10 gauge gun where I could only find one pellet in the neck/head—killed by the pattern fringe. I don't kid myself about never missing another bird. It's the Indian, not the arrow. It happens to the best of us and there is no load, optical system or gun that will cure an occasional miss. The 10"-20" ring contains 3 times the area of the 10" ring. The 10" ring has an area of 78 square inches. The 10-20" ring, approximately 237 square inches. A denser pattern in the 10"-20" ring could be the difference between a crippled or dead bird. I have three excellent loads for next year for my little Baikal. Each has its merits; each has its shortfalls. Everything is a compromise.
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Front:
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Back:
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Gil
Line by line I've followed your project. Barrel for my Remington SPR 20 is on its way back from Sumtoy. This is the rear stock portion of the youth model Baikal. Need to put the top coat of mat flattener on still.
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Cut the stencils from paper directly to blue tape. Laid flat, but only one use. Should have left more of the tan in original camo, it would have shown the black better.
Looks pretty good from where I sit. Nice work all the way around. Great patterns and stenciling. One-of-a-kind camoing.
:drool: You got that smoke poll looking good. :icon_thumright:
Burris came through with a replacement for my FFIII which I screwed up by cross-threading the battery cover. It would be hard to beat service like that. Thank you, Burris Optics. FFIII is mounted via Picatinny system. I have a Burris 336 mount which I plan to use instead of the Picatinny system. The 336 mount offers a more streamlined and lower mount. Photos are of the Picatinny mount.
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I took some comp time off today and Russ and I drove up to Sumtoy just outside the onion fields in Glennville to have William remount the Burris FFIII on a Burris 336 mount. William milled a flat spot on the top of the barrel to accept the flat base of the mount. Many of you probably wonder who this "William" is and what he looks like. I was able to take a quick photo of him working on a project that he didn't feel he could discuss because of his Govt. contract. Here he is:
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Here's the end product of his excellent work. Thanks again, William. The next report on the project you see will hopefully be the third weekend in March with a photo of the recently and dearly departed Mr. Tom. Gil
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What's the cure for looking for something to do after finishing a gun project? Start another. This one is sick. I picked up from Academy Outdoors a 28" barrel .410 single shot made by Yildiz. 3 lbs, 3 oz. makes the 20 gauge Baikal look like a club in comparision. I'll load 13/16 oz. of TSS #9s and see how it shoots without going hog wild modifying it. If it puts 100 in the 10", I'll mount another FFIII on it. Might not paint it. Wood looks pretty good for a gun that cost $129.00 tax included.
Reports on it will be in the .410 section. See this link for updated reports and photos of patterns
http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,28590.0.html
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Was The barrel chrome lined? If it was did Sumtoy remove it?
Kevin,
Not certain if chrome lined. However, forcing cone removed to help with recoil. Gil
Kevin, barrel is chrome lined according to a spec sheet I saw. Gil
Gil, welcome to the wonderful world of single barrel turkey hunting.
Quote from: gaswamp on November 05, 2012, 06:40:58 PM
Gil, welcome to the wonderful world of single barrel turkey hunting.
Thanks, Joe.
It's either a coin toss or "eenie, meenie, minee, moe" choosing between the .410 or Baikal opening weekend, which btw is about 4 months away. Last weekend I picked up the .410 from William Lambert at Sumtoy. Trigger is sweet--light and crisp--and he great job mounting the FFIII. He had to mill an elongated flat triangle with base at chamber end to take out barrel taper and provide a flat spot for the Burris 336 base. I couldn't have done the projects without Williams' advice, expertise and competent work. Thanks, again, William. Here are the finished products:
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An old friend and his young sons sponge-painted this little Baikal 20 yesterday. William of Sumtoy did the metal work. According to Bill, 150 HW 7s in the 10 ring at 40 yards. Just in time for his boys to shoot next weekend. Hopefully Bill will give more details in a new thread. Great job.
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looks great, thanks for sharing Gil
looks great!
The journey making this gun was well worth the effort. Today it earned its keep with this its first bird.
Easter Sunrise in the Wiregrass and Longleaf Pines in the Ga. Low Country. Obligatory limb hanging by spurs photo impossible due to lowest branch on the nearest Longleaf was up 40'.
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Wow Gil- Thats a nice bird. Look at those hooks. Don't see too many birds out west with leg irons like that. Congrats.
Doug, he's on a very short list of birds i've killed with spurs like that, especially on public land. It was also the first bird killed using this box turtle slate I made this summer. I used it in combination with a mouth call. The mouth call sealed the deal, however.
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The Turtle Call is pretty cool. Good thing I don't have a box turtle shell in the garage, I'd follow your lead on building one of those too! If you start making your own gun powder I'm giving up.
Just looked closer at the shell- roll crimped. Got my roll crimper in the mail last week.
Lil' Yildiz's first bird. .410 13/16 oz. tungsten 9s. Small non-agricultural 2 year-old swamp bird shot in adjacent pine flat. Less than 10 minute hunt on public land. He responded to wingbone and closed fast. Finished with diaphragm. Rig weight: 3 lbs, 9 oz. as depicted.
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Yes, I know this the 20 gauge page, but I started this .410 project at the completion of the 20 gauge Baikal project and combined the two in this thread. And as the old proverb says, man who catch large fish never takes back alley home, neither does a man with a good turkey. ;)
This morning I heard the bird on the limb early and had a westerly bearing on the compass. Bird answered my hoots and led me cross country into wet, thick swamp. I stopped 150 yards short and knew it was pointless to call or try to set up until he flew as I didn't know where the dry land was. He flew down, and after 5 minutes, I kept going westerly and found a park-like clean oak and pine hill rising dome-like out of the swamp about 150 yards from where I stopped. He didn't gobble on the ground, but I took a chance and sat down just below the hill's crest so that I could see 40 yards out. I clucked on my Lil' Duece and Perfection RaspyD mouth call. Within about 10 minutes I heard drumming to my right and there he was about 40 yards out. I couldn't move my gun to the right until he went behind a tree and was able to spin around the base of the pine where I sat. I held the little gun up until he cleared the tree and let the shot fly. He was 19 steps away. Rig weighs 3 lbs, 9 oz. .410 hand load is TSS 9, 13/16 oz. This was the third 2013 Ga. bird and second with the .410. Beard is 10.5" and spurs, 1.1". He's a typical, gobbled-out, lightweight swamp bird on public land miles from any food plot or farm field. Shot him a gps'd 750 meters from where I parked the truck. This was a good way to start the work week.
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That's awesome, good for you! Sweet little gun too.
Great looking guns and those rigs are Stone Cold Killers!!! :drool: Congrats on the birds as well.
That's sweet Gil
Here's GWA's Baikal after being dipped by Wet Geared Graphics of Dublin, GA. Nice looking gun, Denny. The gun has been fully "Sumtoyed".
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I've had inquiries on the Yildiz .410 gun #2 and a Sumtoy sleeved choke: go here for results:
http://oldgobbler.com/Forum/index.php/topic,36710.0.html
It is time to wake up the dead thread with a new project. A buddy has retired and whether he knows it or not, needs a 20 gauge. I may give him the completed gun and rig the new one for me. It, too, has been fully Sumtoyed (thanks, again, William). These Russian Baikal MP-18's may be a thing of the past with the problems in the Ukraine and embargo. I bought a youth model from Cheapterthandirt this summer and had to return it to the importer because the forend wouldn't fit. They elected to replace it with the adult model which was fine with me as it is an ejector and has a plastic stock. The Youth Model has wooden stock and forend and is an extractor only. Weighed as depicted in the photo is 5 lbs., 5 oz. I had William trim the barrel so that the length as finished to the end of choke is 24". The other gun as finished is 28". I thought about having the new gun dipped, but the rattle-can job has really held up well. And it is easily repairable. I found an online discussion from an auto paint-body shop man who gives great advice on rattle-can painting. The big points are attention to preparation and allowing the paint to cure for at least a month (if you can) before use. Here's what he had to say:
"Thanks for answering my question and I'll explain why I asked you. I'm a bodyman/painter by trade, I've been doing it for about 20 years. I've mainly made my living doing custom work like airbrushing, handlettering, pinstriping and graffics. Bikes, brain buckets, boats, etc. I experimented A LOT with different types of paints over the years for different types of appilcations. I'm telling this about myself so you don't think I'm some Joe-Blow giving bad advise about paint, which I see plenty of on this forum. So when ever I see someone having a paint related problem, I usually like to chime in and give my two bits.
I've never used Rustoluim BBQ paint myself, but what happened to your paint job I don't really think can be blamed on the paint itself. I'm assuming that the BBQ paint is probably an enamel based product and when it was fully dried it would have stood up to giving it a quick wipe down with oil. I think you just did it too soon, the oil started breaking down the paint and interrupted the drying/curing process. That's probably why it continued to leave black on your hands for days after.
I'll give you guys a little painting 101. There basically two types of paint out there, one-part and two-part paints. One part-paint is a paint that dries through evaporation; the one-part means there is nothing to add to it, the one-part is the paint itself. Two-part paints cure through a chemical reaction, they have to have an activator(also known as hardener or catalyst) to make them cure. The first-part is the paint and the second-part is the activator. One-part and two-parts apply to all paints weather it is latex, laquer, enamels, urethanes or epoxys. Two-part paints with be more durable in the long run and will be highly solvent resistant compared to one-part paints. Notice I said one dries and one cures...
But not everyone wants or is going to spray two part-paints, esp when spray bombs are quick, easy and cheap. But I'll give you guys a few pointers to make spray bomb paint fairly durable.
I noticed a few people were saying that Rusty brand BBQ scratches easily and flakes off. I'm guessing people are spraying it over bare metal, even if the directions say you can, it's probably not a good idea. As far a I know, there is no true DTM(direct to metal) paint on the market in a spray can. You have to get into two-part paints for a true DTM paint, even then it's not always 100% it's not going to flake off. Check out local auto-body supply stores and look for metal-etching primer in the spray can, it's usually farily cheap and it goes a long way.
Here are some simple steps to make sure your paint job will turn out great.
1-Degrease. Do this as many times as nessecary, also never let the degreaser dry. Wipe the excess off or blow off with compressed air.
2- Scuff/sand areas really well.
3-Blow off with compressed air; if you don't have an air compressor, compressed air in a can works very well(the stuff from computer stores).
4-Tack surface
5-Etch prime all bare metal.
6-Spray paint according to diections.
7-Let it become dry to the touch.
The last step is the hardest step of all, but simply put...KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF IT FOR 2-3 WEEKS, even better a month. I know this part is espially hard when you just got done building your new gun. Even two-part paints take 3-4 weeks to FULLY cure. I like to paint snowmobile hoods during the summer and bike tanks during the winter, it gives the paint time to fully cure and give the customer their moneys worth. But it is the hardest thing to get through to my customers; when it gets all nice and warm, that's when everyone wants their bikes painted."
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Finally got a round 'toit with the new Baikal MP-18. I applied a Duracoat two-part paint, Tactical Dark Earth, with one of the "shake and spray" kits. After letting it cure for a week, I dropped the stock section, action down, and dinged metal just where the forend hits the action. I left stock and forend as is without painting. This is this season's gun in addition to the .410 single-shot Yildiz.
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One of the coolest threads I've read through on here
Man that dura coat turned out nice! Looks good with the synthetic stock! If i didnt have a wood stock id definately give the dura coat a try on mine. What kind of patterns are you getting with your new baikal?
For one of the few times in my life I am going to follow instructions. Duracoat cautions to let it cure for several weeks before heavy use. I'll pattern it a little later and let you know. :) I'll start the season with the .410. Gil
Sumtoy .5625 choke, 24" to end of choke. 1 5/16 oz. TSS 9's, 40 yards. Gotta like the point of impact and aim. Little too tight for me with poor 10-20" ring. 259/99. Shot about 10 dove loads with it without cleaning just before taking this zero shot. Had to shoot a bunch of dove loads as FFIII bottomed out and had to shim back end several times with Coke can strips.
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Today, I stayed with the same choke, but shot the load un-buffered. While tungsten shot doesn't hold an out of round shape on setback for but a split second, it still benefits from filler to cushion and help reduce temporary "boing-boing" effect, going out of round, before returning to round as it leaves the barrel (I suppose). In other words, buffer tightens loads that otherwise wouldn't be as tight. Anyhow, here's the same load as above un-buffered. For my purposes, it is a better hunting load with a more forgiving edge pattern than above.
128/189, 1 5/16 oz.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/IMG_20150317_142307699_zpshevunaqm.jpg) (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/photo205/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/IMG_20150317_142307699_zpshevunaqm.jpg.html)
Well, it works. No, that's not a bantam emu. Bird lost his tailfeathers when I clumsily stepped on his tail when he flopped. Last Friday Russian gun shoots American Wild Turkey with Red Chinese tungsten shot which sounds more like an international incident than a turkey hunt. This was first blood with the gun and homemade rivercane yelper. Bud's Guns is selling the MP-18 20 gauge once again.
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(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/IMG_20150424_122324894_HDR_zpsna3gz82e.jpg) (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/photo205/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04/IMG_20150424_122324894_HDR_zpsna3gz82e.jpg.html)
For every door that closes, another opens. This guy closed my season Wednesday, but the door to indoor plumbing, mosquito free living and sleep past sunrise re-opened. This is the third public land bird called in with my homemade rivercane yelper in the last 12 days. Two shot, one clean miss. A swamp bird, and is as wet as a drowned rat. Came within 25 steps, with 3 gangsta' jakes who were pleased to see him hit the deck, but maybe not as much as I. This MP-18 has become my "big gun" for turkey hunting.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-05/IMG_20150506_074002595_zpsyur8vfqw.jpg) (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/photo205/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-05/IMG_20150506_074002595_zpsyur8vfqw.jpg.html)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-05/IMG_20150506_074017695_zpsgdo4sjm4.jpg) (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/photo205/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-05/IMG_20150506_074017695_zpsgdo4sjm4.jpg.html)
:morning:
GREAT THREAD! :camohat:
:icon_thumright: :icon_thumright: :icon_thumright:
Yes, I know this is the 20 gauge site, but I've been detailing my 20 gauge Baikal projects simultaneously with the .410 and the .410 forum is buried and gets very little traffic. So, sue me. ;)
After the 2015 spring season, I sent my Yildiz .410 to Mark Larson in Tacoma, Washington, to paint a strutter on the gun stock. Mark has repaired and restored stocks on three of my side by sides and is a skilled artist as well. www.marklarsongunart.com Here's what he did on the stock.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/Turkey%20gun_zpsmjhfalm2.jpg) (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/photo205/media/Turkey%20gun_zpsmjhfalm2.jpg.html)
At the same time, I sent my barrel to Mike Orlen to thread the barrel for a .410 choke. William Lambert at Sumtoy can "sleeve" a choke into a .410, and he has done so on a gun I had made up for a buddy. The sleeved choke he made was and still is an incredible performer. I wanted to shorten the barrel and see if a flush mounted choke would work and have flexibility with other chokes. The flush mounted choke was woefully inadequate. I knew all along that a Sumtoy choke would be the ultimate solution and I wasn't disappointed.
I picked up my Sumtoy choke from William yesterday and re-zeroed the FF3 and patterned two rounds of TSS 9's, 367/ oz. count, with 13/16 oz. loads. To recap, I had Mike Orlen cut the barrel to 24" and thread. First shot was barely on the paper—129 in the 10" and 117 in the 10-20" ring, but not all the pattern was on the paper. Next shot, 123 in the 10 and 120 in the 10-20", both shots at 40 yards. The screw-in choke is 3.5" long. William doesn't have the die to thread .410, but Orlen does. Contact both Orlen and Sumtoy for costs. The gun before modification was a very good shooter with a high of 110 in the 10" at 40. Orlen trimmed 4" off the 28" barrel. Sumtoy's choke extends 1" for an overall length of 25". It is noticeably more compact. Pretty is as pretty does...
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/IMG_20150920_071328293_HDR_zpst4v01pcr.jpg) (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/photo205/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/IMG_20150920_071328293_HDR_zpst4v01pcr.jpg.html)
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/IMG_20150920_071926_zpsjbvku7ci.jpg) (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/photo205/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/IMG_20150920_071926_zpsjbvku7ci.jpg.html)
Very nice!
Very nice setup, always had a soft spot for a nice single shot.
Another great looking gun Gil. Glad to see the old thread resurrected.
Further tinkerin' with loads has shown this one to be even better than before. RMC (Rocky Mountain Cartridge) brass hulls. Remington PSTS primer put 159 TSS9.5 13/16 oz. in the 10" ring at 40 yards. The Win 209, 133.
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m278/photo205/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-02/IMG_20160228_161120953_zpsnkavjarv.jpg)
She turned out great! :icon_thumright: . Patterns aren't too had either, for a 12ga, but for a 410 that's amazing!Talk about a lightweight turkey killing machine.
Update on project gun. I first hunted the gun in spring of 2013. In the spring of 2015 I gave it an old buddy as a retirement present. He has hunted it hard since 2015 averaging over 50 days a season. I asked him to send me photos to see how the rattle-can paint has held up over the years. It has a few worn spots, but nothing major. Should he decide to touch it up, it will be easy to do with the paint. Ceracote or Duracoat may be tougher, but its not as easily repaired as the Rustoleum rattle-can paint.
No amount of money could pry it from his hands. Or so he says. ;)
Gil
(https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/62796_800x600.jpg) (https://www.jpgbox.com/page/62796_800x600/)
(https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/62797_800x600.jpg) (https://www.jpgbox.com/page/62797_800x600/)
(https://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/62798_800x600.jpg) (https://www.jpgbox.com/page/62798_800x600/)
don't see many of those in a twenty gauge
Joe, they occasionally show up on gunbroker rebadged as a Remington SPR 100. A buddy found one a few months ago as a Baikal 20. He has it ready for this season. We'll zero it soon. Gil
I am glad to see this thread again too. It inspired me.
Last year I bought a Stevens 301 Compact 20ga.
I gave it a quick rattle can spray using some netting for a pattern. Added a Carlson Longbeard choke, a Fiber Optic front sight and a sling. I patterned it at 30yards with the Longbeard XTR shells.
It was a light dream to carry but the turkeys did not cooperate last season and it remains unbloodied.
My old eyes have trouble even with the FO sight so I have it at a local gunsmith drilling and taping it so I can add an extra Vortex Venom I had on hand.
Georgia season starts in just three weeks so I am anxious to get it back and go to the range!(https://i.imgur.com/GgFqlt7l.jpg)
Nice job. I'd encourage those that are on the fence about Ceracote vs. Duracoat vs. dipping vs. rattle-canning a gun to give serious consideration to the cheapest expense, durability, and ease of repair of a properly prepared, rattle-can painted turkey gun. Proper preparation of the gun before painting is the key. Gil