Don't believe have ever heard this discussed before, so where do you like for that swarm of shot to hit on that gobbler...where do you put that bead or red dot? I like mine to put most of the shot below top of his head, covering him from head to feet. Got mine zeroed to hit where his waddles hang, about 5-6" below his head. I know this will put a lot of shot in his breast but if hitting higher you could shoot over him, so what you guys say?
Wattles.
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My shot gun shoots about a 60/40 patten at point of aim, so I aim from the wattles to the middle of the neck depending on how his heads stretch out.
I have always aimed at the waddles
Top of the wattles.
Wattles
Feather/skin line
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Depends on the gun I am shooting. But currently all my modern firearms are feather/skin line as well. If the bird is inside 40 the only pellet that would hit the breast would be a stray.
Wattles
I kill them where the skin meets the feathers at the bottom of the neck (major caruncles) with the shotgun.
Of course, sometimes you get them in too close and this can happen at 11 steps and Long Beard Loads.
MK M GOBL
Most shotguns shoot a tad high (70/30 in many clay guns, and 60/40 is common in most hunting guns).
I shoot a bead... I generally put the bead a hair above where the skin meets the feathers.
Only two birds I have missed, I could only see their head/neck, and put the bead on the head... One was on the other side of a small knoll, and never saw him after I missed... Second time was in tall grass (some years later), and once again put the bead on the head (cause that was all I could see. After I missed, he popped his head up again, but this time I held lower. ;D
A couple times on close birds, I was afraid of putting pellets into the meet, and held higher, and shot the tops of the birds' heads off. Now, I always put the bead where the skin meets the neck, or where that would be if the bird is behind an obstruction or grass (with his head exposed).
I would think that with optics or a red dot, you would put it where you want to hit the bird???
Wattles
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Wattles
Wherever I want.
Most turkey guns, including mine, have some type of adjustable sighting system. I use red dots. I can put my POI anywhere I want in relation to my POA. So, if I wanted to aim at the bird's feet or put daylight between the dot and the top of his head........ I can. That being said........ I have every gun sighted in for a wattle POA. Or, as I like to tell the kids, "Where the feathers meet the skin".
Wattles
Top of wattles.
Half way between where neck feathers meet wattles and the top of his head.
Don't take my advice though, I have missed more turkeys than carter has pills.
It is interesting that all these seasoned turkey hunter don't know the difference between the wattle (dewlap) and the major caruncles.
A turkey only has one wattle. I tend to hold just above the major caruncles given a choice, but I've killed quite a few sneaky ones where I could only see the white cap.
Where the skin meets the feathers
By some of the replies, I wonder if we are being consistent on the anatomy?
The Wattles (or dewlap) are the flap of skin, similar to a half-moon than hangs right under the head. The caruncles are the bumps all over the neck, but probably most prominent at the base of the neck...
I googled the terms, Wattles, dewlap, and caruncles... Seems that different sources have different definitions??? My reference is that the dewlap and wattle are the same half-moon flappy skin directly under the head... Caruncles are the bumps on the neck, most prominent at the base of the neck/head.
Quote from: Marc on March 23, 2022, 11:39:37 PM
By some of the replies, I wonder if we are being consistent on the anatomy?
The Wattles (or dewlap) are the flap of skin, similar to a half-moon than hangs right under the head. The caruncles are the bumps all over the neck, but probably most prominent at the base of the neck...
I googled the terms, Wattles, dewlap, and caruncles... Seems that different sources have different definitions??? My reference is that the dewlap and wattle are the same half-moon flappy skin directly under the head... Caruncles are the bumps on the neck, most prominent at the base of the neck/head.
Quote from: MK M GOBL on March 22, 2022, 12:28:59 AM
I kill them where the skin meets the feathers at the bottom of the neck (major caruncles) with the shotgun.
Of course, sometimes you get them in too close and this can happen at 11 steps and Long Beard Loads.
MK M GOBL
All my dedicated turkey guns have scopes with the Circle-X Reticle, easy to explain the kids and newbs where to shoot. *Pictured as I call it "The Circle of Death"
Which leads to the funniest thing I ever heard while turkey hunting.
I am on a Youth Hunt with a friend's wife and daughter, the three of us are in the blind with daughter in between me and her mom, as the morning goes, we end up having this tom come out in the field a bit after fly down, the tom sees my decoy and is making his way fast to us, my decoy is set at 15 yards. I tell to get the gun up on the rest and get ready, he's coming fast. We get the gun set (and mind you we practiced this on paper the day before) as the tom nears the decoy she says "where do I shoot him" I whisper back "like we practiced, bottom of the neck" she is looking through the scope and again asks "where?" again and I said see the lumps of skin right where the feathers are, she say yup and I say get right there and shoot, granted this bird is now at 15 yards and spinning around at the decoy. And then it happens, the little 10-year-old girls voice says, "So I shoot him right in the turkey balls?" I could hardly get yes out and contain my laughter at this point. I look over at mom and she's rolling her eyes and almost balling laughing too. Don't know how but she did it and killed her tom!
After all this and talking with her (mom) I find out they have a big old yellow male lab at home and hence the definition :TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Sorry but you'll never look at it the same LOL
MK M GOBL
Most folks call the caruncles the wattles. Some actually mean the wattles (dewlap - just under the chin to the neck. Cattle have a dewlap too, but it runs from the neck to the sternum area - hence the confusion). My little 410 is sighted in to shoot him in the eyeball. After shooting the third Apex Ninja round, I said close enough and am taking it hunting.
I don't...aim at the wattles or as I tell kids aim at the bubbles on the neck. The lower neck is much more stationery than the head.
Just aim at the bottom of the "red thing".
There are as many answers as there are guns, to this question. The main point should be to pattern your gun and know where it shoots. If you do this it doesn't matter nearly as much where you hold from the eyeball down to where the neck goes into the body. As long as the largest of your shot is hitting a lethal zone. The lethal zone to me is anywhere from the top of the head to just below the feather skin line.
I personally don't like shot in my meat. I aim with the head sitting just above my bead. My gun kills well like that.
eggshell, I like that....very good point. Shot mine Saturday and lowered my red dot like 2" where my swarm of shot hits higher at 40 yards getting it out of the meat.....but still enough shot in head,vert to kill him. This way if you misjudged a 40 yard shot and it a little further you would still get a killing shot. I shoot a 20 ga Stevens 301 and with hand loads of #9 TSS it very tight and those shot are very hard, do not want to bite down on one of them. Have heard of guys breaking a tooth and not good . Thanks for your reply.
Waddles
I PUT MINE ABOUT THE MIDDLE OF THE NECK IF HE DROPS HIS HEAD U STILL PUT IT IN HIS HEAD...
Right before the shot instincts take over and I go in kill mode and am not sure exactly where the bead is when the trigger is pulled.
Quote from: MK M GOBL on March 24, 2022, 12:22:07 AM
All my dedicated turkey guns have scopes with the Circle-X Reticle, easy to explain the kids and newbs where to shoot. *Pictured as I call it "The Circle of Death"
MK M GOBL
I do not shoot a gun with a red dot or scope... But I would think that you would set the point of impact where the gun actually shoots?
With a bead, most shotguns shoot a tad high, so I am a tad low (that same circle of death where the feathers meet skin you refer to). But with a dot or scope, why not set the point of impact so that the gun shoots flat, and aim where you want to hit (or just a tad lower)?
(I am not arguing with your strategy, just wondering)
I typically aim pretty high on the neck. I don't like pellets in the breast meat.
Look him in the eye , shoot him in the eye.
Wattles
Since I started this topic, I am declaring a winner! Gobbler 428's post...."bottom of the Red Thing"...can't get much better than that and seems most would agree. Now, what prize should he get for fully explaining exactly what we all have been trying to say for days now....thanks Gobbler428 from us all!
I always told my son to "put the round apple(head) on the post(bead). So I guess I aim for where the neck attaches to the head, but my gun shoots 50/50.
For me, it is where the caruncles meet the feathers. I don't want half of my pattern to fly over his head by aiming at his eyes.
>40 hair above waddles, <40 just under the head.
Totally agree with deadbuck. Shooting a shotgun is instinct. It's more point the bead than it is aim.
Besides at any distance the bead covers the head/neck area .
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on April 27, 2022, 02:43:29 PM
Totally agree with deadbuck. Shooting a shotgun is instinct. It's more point the bead than it is aim.
Besides at any distance the bead covers the head/neck area .
Yep, this. I shoot beads and when those beads are lined-up on, or covering, "The Red Thing", that load is going downrange. The shot may end up being a few inches high or low from center, but there is invariably a flopping, dead turkey laying there after I pull the trigger. I don't contemplate anything beyond that result... ;D :angel9:
Quote from: Ihuntoldschool on April 27, 2022, 02:43:29 PM
Totally agree with deadbuck. Shooting a shotgun is instinct. It's more point the bead than it is aim.
Besides at any distance the bead covers the head/neck area .
I lost the front bead of my vent rib shotgun one year during the duck season. Never noticed until I went to sight in for turkey. I guess I used the bead when shooting a turkey, but not wing shooting at all.
Wattles
I think it depends on how your gun shoots. I use a vortex venom and it's sighted in so that I aim at his eye. May seem strange but it's a small target and helps me concentrate and "aim small". Would be just as easy to adjust the sight and aim at the waddles.
I aim at the top of the head and kill them with the bottom of the pattern, thus greatly deceasing the possibility of pellets in the beast meat.
Neck and feather line!!!
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Quote from: btomlin on April 08, 2022, 12:53:10 PM
I always told my son to "put the round apple(head) on the post(bead). So I guess I aim for where the neck attaches to the head, but my gun shoots 50/50.
+1
I put his head on top of the bead
Shoot em close
Wattles
Shoot em close ....
Base of the wattles is where I'm aiming
Stack his head on top of your bead ....
Shoot em close ....
Wattles
Eyeball, preferably at about 20-30 yards. No shot in the breast meat. I teach my kids to hold where the feathers end and wattles begin.
Feathers meet the skin in most cases. but it depends if he's bobbing and weaving ... :fud:
I always told my son, or any other new turkey hunter with me, that his head should be sitting on top of the bead.
I like a big bead myself and I use the same bead on my duck gun as I use on my turkey gun. When the bead covers the head I shoot. When I used a scope, I aimed at the eye.
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Quote from: ScottTaulbee on May 04, 2023, 12:33:48 PM
I like a big bead myself and I use the same bead on my duck gun as I use on my turkey gun. When the bead covers the head I shoot. When I used a scope, I aimed at the eye.
Interesting... I am the exact opposite.
I doubt I would even know if the bead was off while wing-shooting. With wing-shooting I am doing my best not to be aware of the barrel or the bead. If the gun is mounted correctly (and my head is down), my eye and gun (barrel) should be lined up, and the birds should fall or target should break. Should fall... My biggest issue wing-shooting is lifting my head...
For turkey hunting, I prefer a smaller bead so that I can focus on the target (aim small miss small). The bead is simply a reference point to make sure the gun is lined up, and I am focused on the target... I will admit to a preference for a center bead while turkey hunting though. If the two beads are lined up (means my head is down), and my hold point is correct, I am NOT missing.
I will say that those turkey targets were very helpful for me to find my hold point. Put that target out 10-15 yards with a tight choke and cheap target loads... If I shoot at the head at those ranges, my pattern barely hits the top of the head on the target. If I put it where the neck/feathers meet, his head comes off. Different guns and shims might differ for different shooters (which is why we pattern).
When/if I miss it is vertically not horizontally. The only shots I have missed (3 misses in my turkey hunting career) are when a bird is poking his head up (over a log, or rock, etc.), and I can only see the head... And I miss over the top.
Another difficult shot is a lateral shot at a bird that is gobbling... Head sticking out horizontal instead of vertical. Had one of those this year, and there was some admitted relief with the connection on that shot.
Quote from: Marc on May 06, 2023, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on May 04, 2023, 12:33:48 PM
I like a big bead myself and I use the same bead on my duck gun as I use on my turkey gun. When the bead covers the head I shoot. When I used a scope, I aimed at the eye.
Interesting... I am the exact opposite.
I doubt I would even know if the bead was off while wing-shooting. With wing-shooting I am doing my best not to be aware of the barrel or the bead. If the gun is mounted correctly (and my head is down), my eye and gun (barrel) should be lined up, and the birds should fall or target should break. Should fall... My biggest issue wing-shooting is lifting my head...
For turkey hunting, I prefer a smaller bead so that I can focus on the target (aim small miss small). The bead is simply a reference point to make sure the gun is lined up, and I am focused on the target... I will admit to a preference for a center bead while turkey hunting though. If the two beads are lined up (means my head is down), and my hold point is correct, I am NOT missing.
I will say that those turkey targets were very helpful for me to find my hold point. Put that target out 10-15 yards with a tight choke and cheap target loads... If I shoot at the head at those ranges, my pattern barely hits the top of the head on the target. If I put it where the neck/feathers meet, his head comes off. Different guns and shims might differ for different shooters (which is why we pattern).
When/if I miss it is vertically not horizontally. The only shots I have missed (3 misses in my turkey hunting career) are when a bird is poking his head up (over a log, or rock, etc.), and I can only see the head... And I miss over the top.
Another difficult shot is a lateral shot at a bird that is gobbling... Head sticking out horizontal instead of vertical. Had one of those this year, and there was some admitted relief with the connection on that shot.
I also rarely look at the bead when wing shooting or shooting clays. It's just a familiarity thing I guess. I Average 93% on trap and mid 80% depending on the course. I'm an outlier I guess on turkey hunting, I don't raise my gun until I shoot, other than that it's on the ground on my right side. When the turkey is in range and I get ready to shoot, I slowly reach over and ease the gun up, when the bead covers the head I squeeze the trigger.
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Quote from: ScottTaulbee on May 06, 2023, 02:51:45 PM
Quote from: Marc on May 06, 2023, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on May 04, 2023, 12:33:48 PM
I like a big bead myself and I use the same bead on my duck gun as I use on my turkey gun. When the bead covers the head I shoot. When I used a scope, I aimed at the eye.
Interesting... I am the exact opposite.
I doubt I would even know if the bead was off while wing-shooting. With wing-shooting I am doing my best not to be aware of the barrel or the bead. If the gun is mounted correctly (and my head is down), my eye and gun (barrel) should be lined up, and the birds should fall or target should break. Should fall... My biggest issue wing-shooting is lifting my head...
For turkey hunting, I prefer a smaller bead so that I can focus on the target (aim small miss small). The bead is simply a reference point to make sure the gun is lined up, and I am focused on the target... I will admit to a preference for a center bead while turkey hunting though. If the two beads are lined up (means my head is down), and my hold point is correct, I am NOT missing.
I will say that those turkey targets were very helpful for me to find my hold point. Put that target out 10-15 yards with a tight choke and cheap target loads... If I shoot at the head at those ranges, my pattern barely hits the top of the head on the target. If I put it where the neck/feathers meet, his head comes off. Different guns and shims might differ for different shooters (which is why we pattern).
When/if I miss it is vertically not horizontally. The only shots I have missed (3 misses in my turkey hunting career) are when a bird is poking his head up (over a log, or rock, etc.), and I can only see the head... And I miss over the top.
Another difficult shot is a lateral shot at a bird that is gobbling... Head sticking out horizontal instead of vertical. Had one of those this year, and there was some admitted relief with the connection on that shot.
I also rarely look at the bead when wing shooting or shooting clays. It's just a familiarity thing I guess. I Average 93% on trap and mid 80% depending on the course. I'm an outlier I guess on turkey hunting, I don't raise my gun until I shoot, other than that it's on the ground on my right side. When the turkey is in range and I get ready to shoot, I slowly reach over and ease the gun up, when the bead covers the head I squeeze the trigger.
To be clear... Not trying to argue... For anyone out there... If it works, keep doing it.
Like you, I also tend to mount and shoot turkeys a lot. If I can set up before he comes around a tree or pops over a knoll, I will. But if a turkey is in range with my gun down, I mount the gun and shoot him. I tend to "aim" the gun more pre-mounted and ready, and tend to shoot more similar wing-shooting with a low gun.
I have taken people out, with a bird in range, and they were too afraid to mount and shoot a low gun, and we watched birds walk off.
I have actually found that the motion of pulling the gun up to shoot them, actually makes their heads come up briefly... While I know it will happen, I have yet to have a bird take off during the mount, to a point I still was not able to get a clean shot off.
First bird of the season for me this year, I had a sandwich in my hand (instead of my gun) when the bird came in. He still went home with me.
Quote from: Marc on May 06, 2023, 05:30:37 PM
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on May 06, 2023, 02:51:45 PM
Quote from: Marc on May 06, 2023, 02:10:17 PM
Quote from: ScottTaulbee on May 04, 2023, 12:33:48 PM
I like a big bead myself and I use the same bead on my duck gun as I use on my turkey gun. When the bead covers the head I shoot. When I used a scope, I aimed at the eye.
Interesting... I am the exact opposite.
I doubt I would even know if the bead was off while wing-shooting. With wing-shooting I am doing my best not to be aware of the barrel or the bead. If the gun is mounted correctly (and my head is down), my eye and gun (barrel) should be lined up, and the birds should fall or target should break. Should fall... My biggest issue wing-shooting is lifting my head...
For turkey hunting, I prefer a smaller bead so that I can focus on the target (aim small miss small). The bead is simply a reference point to make sure the gun is lined up, and I am focused on the target... I will admit to a preference for a center bead while turkey hunting though. If the two beads are lined up (means my head is down), and my hold point is correct, I am NOT missing.
I will say that those turkey targets were very helpful for me to find my hold point. Put that target out 10-15 yards with a tight choke and cheap target loads... If I shoot at the head at those ranges, my pattern barely hits the top of the head on the target. If I put it where the neck/feathers meet, his head comes off. Different guns and shims might differ for different shooters (which is why we pattern).
When/if I miss it is vertically not horizontally. The only shots I have missed (3 misses in my turkey hunting career) are when a bird is poking his head up (over a log, or rock, etc.), and I can only see the head... And I miss over the top.
Another difficult shot is a lateral shot at a bird that is gobbling... Head sticking out horizontal instead of vertical. Had one of those this year, and there was some admitted relief with the connection on that shot.
I also rarely look at the bead when wing shooting or shooting clays. It's just a familiarity thing I guess. I Average 93% on trap and mid 80% depending on the course. I'm an outlier I guess on turkey hunting, I don't raise my gun until I shoot, other than that it's on the ground on my right side. When the turkey is in range and I get ready to shoot, I slowly reach over and ease the gun up, when the bead covers the head I squeeze the trigger.
To be clear... Not trying to argue... For anyone out there... If it works, keep doing it.
Like you, I also tend to mount and shoot turkeys a lot. If I can set up before he comes around a tree or pops over a knoll, I will. But if a turkey is in range with my gun down, I mount the gun and shoot him. I tend to "aim" the gun more pre-mounted and ready, and tend to shoot more similar wing-shooting with a low gun.
I have taken people out, with a bird in range, and they were too afraid to mount and shoot a low gun, and we watched birds walk off.
I have actually found that the motion of pulling the gun up to shoot them, actually makes their heads come up briefly... While I know it will happen, I have yet to have a bird take off during the mount, to a point I still was not able to get a clean shot off.
First bird of the season for me this year, I had a sandwich in my hand (instead of my gun) when the bird came in. He still went home with me.
I absolutely never took it as you arguing, you're one of the ones on here that I tend to agree with more often than not!. And I agree, most folks have the sit with the gun on your knees drilled in to them and they're scared to do anything differently
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red dot right on the wattles
Most people say the wattles but are you meaning the caruncles at the base of the neck?
Most people mean caruncle when they say wattle.
Quote from: Marc on April 06, 2022, 12:53:34 PM
Quote from: MK M GOBL on March 24, 2022, 12:22:07 AM
All my dedicated turkey guns have scopes with the Circle-X Reticle, easy to explain the kids and newbs where to shoot. *Pictured as I call it "The Circle of Death"
MK M GOBL
I do not shoot a gun with a red dot or scope... But I would think that you would set the point of impact where the gun actually shoots?
With a bead, most shotguns shoot a tad high, so I am a tad low (that same circle of death where the feathers meet skin you refer to). But with a dot or scope, why not set the point of impact so that the gun shoots flat, and aim where you want to hit (or just a tad lower)?
(I am not arguing with your strategy, just wondering)
I/We do aim at the point of the Major Caruncles; it is where the skin meets the feathers. Even when the turkey is walking this is a "steady" point to aim at, always has been a dead bird for us.
MK M GOBL
The base of the neck works very well. 3 in the head and he,s dead. :you_rock:
I aim for where the neck meets the feathers.
I am a little confused. Are we talking about a rifle or a shotgun? It's a pattern. Just hit him in the upper neck; part of your pattern will find itself in his head.
Quote from: captfire on March 28, 2022, 03:28:32 PM
I PUT MINE ABOUT THE MIDDLE OF THE NECK IF HE DROPS HIS HEAD U STILL PUT IT IN HIS HEAD...
X2
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I've never put a lot of thought into where to aim. I was taught growing up to shoot for the head so I always just put the bead on his head and neck. It's gonna cover most of it up anyways.
This is my 16 gauge at 35. The blue sticker is where all my are Red Dots are sighted in for. That is the Waddle, "Red Tomato" on the bird. If he ducks he's toast, if he stretches to look, he's cooked, this works real well for me. I set up all my guns this way...be safe
Where the feathers meet his neck.
Honestly, every gun should be patterned. Especially for those using ultra-tight turkey chokes at closer ranges.
I pattern with cheap target loads through my turkey choke, to see where the gun is shooting.
I did purchase a new gun, but it was sent back to factory... So my current turkey gun shoots around a 60/40 pattern (60% of the pattern above center and 40% of the pattern below center) as do most factory guns...
My new gun shoots closer to a 50/50 pattern. I might adjust my point of aim from the base of the neck to mid neck, depending on my patterning experience.
If you are going to pattern, do NOT shoot your expensive, high-recoiling loads at paper... Shoot some inexpensive, light-recoiling loads to see where the gun shoots... Then, use an actual turkey load looks like to make sure it shoots to the same point and gives a good pattern.
My goal on patterning, is to shoot only 3 of the turkey loads (as they are expensive, and recoil A LOT, and you feel that recoil when shooting paper). I shoot at 20, 30, and 40 yards... I want to make sure that I actually have a pattern at 20 yards, and that I have enough of a pattern at 40 yards, and that the gun/choke is shooting my loads where I think it is.
Quote from: cwhitfield96 on March 04, 2024, 09:34:56 PM
Most people say the wattles but are you meaning the caruncles at the base of the neck?
That's where I put mine, right in the front seat of his "uncles' car"
Middle of the neck with my red dot. Gives me a perfect 10" ring of death for his neck and head and little to 0 pellets in the meat.