anyone using blackhorn 209? have not seen anything posted with loads and patterns. Love it in my deer guns getting ready to play with it in the tk2000.
I know nothing of the tk2000 but I'm aware of BH 209. Make sure the gun you're using has a breech that's completely sealed. Otherwise you'll get inconsistent results with the stuff. It's a great BP sub but it does have a few requirements in order to work properly. My old inline wouldn't fire the stuff for a couple reasons. One of which was the open breech design.
tk2000 is a plunger style breech but the breech plug is not tremendously long. have run bh 209 in remington ultimate ml, omega, and a knight disc and all worked. Guess I will be the guinea pig on this 1
Breech plug length isn't necessarily the problem. The issue with BH209 is that it needs a hotter fire to ignite it. If you've used it before you know that it almost requires a 209 shotgun primer instead of the 777 209 primers. I'd recommend a magnum primer in fact. because of the requirement for the hotter flame, open breech plugs generally let too much pressure bleed off before ignition leading to misfires and inconsistent groups. Just my experience.
runs great out of my 700 ultimate muzzle loader with lg rifle primers so I would have to disagree with that.....alot of uneducated opinions on what people think in another week or so I will post some paper that will be tested facts. amazes me that so many people shoot the powder and really don't know why it works or doesn't. and that is not me slamming you wvmtnhick dont take that wrong but everywhere you read that it wont work but I have yet to see tried it and it didnt work.
The staff at Western Powders who make BlackHorn 209 stress that it is not for use in black powder firearms which do not have a closed breach like on a TC Omega. They suggest using a magnum primer like the CCI 209M. I've gone through 2 cans of the powder, utilizing the CCI 209M I have never had a misfire, and have never had a black powder substitute which produces the groups and reproducibility in a 50 cal muzzleloader. In the TK2000, utilizing a # 11 percussion cap, I would recommend the Dynamil Nobel cap and Triple 7 powder. The Triple 7 will not develop the "crud ring" in the barrel if you use a # 11 percussion cap, and although it doesn't clean up as easily as BH209, it is still better than black powder or pyrodex.
Quote from: dantheman on March 03, 2016, 10:15:53 AM
runs great out of my 700 ultimate muzzle loader with lg rifle primers so I would have to disagree with that.....alot of uneducated opinions on what people think in another week or so I will post some paper that will be tested facts. amazes me that so many people shoot the powder and really don't know why it works or doesn't. and that is not me slamming you wvmtnhick dont take that wrong but everywhere you read that it wont work but I have yet to see tried it and it didnt work.
Well, you can disagree all you want but facts are facts. BH209 requires a hotter/consistent flame/pressure. The tk 2000 allows too much pressure to bleed off before ignition reducing its effect. Your 700 UM doesn't have the same issues. If anything, your proving my point. Slam or not, I've got thick skin and don't get to worked up about things. But, I've been around the gun world and BP substitutes to speak the truth. I've fired it from many guns. Most of them go bang. The problem is in the consistency of the ignition. Again, not arguing. Simply pointing out facts as to why it "works or doesn't."
well as usual with anything that everyone says wont work, it worked out just fine. Started with 70gr by volume black horn 209 and blended load of 1.5oz hevi weight 7 shot 1 oz 6 lead. fired 8 shots no issues no delayed ignition. Clean up was a breeze. may need to play with wads, I am using the knight wads with their foam overwad. my 40yd count was not as good as I would like but definitely respectable. certainly not an 80yd killer.
Do you have a chronograph? I'd be interested to see the spread over a five shot string. Just wondering if it has any kind of effect on it.
Will chrono some loads on next session. Patterns were consistent but definitely was hoping for better results. Also need to downsize my pics so I can upload a couple pattern pics. Was hoping to turn it into a 50yds gun not that you need it but would be nice to have.
If you're getting reliable ignition (and the chrono will tell you based on your extreme spread) it's still entirely possible. Might need to adjust the powder/shot charge or simply change to a different shot card etc. BP guns can be quite finicky and a small change can make a huge difference. Keep playing with it. If the ignition is consistent, you'll be able to find a way to tweak it somehow. Are you using any type of shot cup? Try a couple different ones if possible. What size shot are you using?
using the knight wads with their foam overshot. currently federal hw 7 1.5 oz and 1 oz #6 lead also planning to try a mag blend to see how that does. the bpi wads seem like a much better deal.
Thinking out loud here but, 2.5 ounces coming out of that bore may be too much for a reliable pattern. That's a ton of shot. I'd probably try backing it off 0.5 ounce and see what happens but that's just me.
definitely worth a shot. Have been thinking about picking up some tss 9s for my 20ga may be worth running a load of them through there also.
Now you're talking. I've got a pound showing up today to play with. If I can get it figured out I'll be ordering more real soon.
Now I have run into a problem. The first wads I shot were pink knight original wads. I have now purchased the new knight wads which are white. They load easier but will not fire. I had 3 pink wads left and both that I shot fired perfectly. Kept number 3 for measuring. Back to pyrodex for now as it fired fine with the white wads.
Sounds to me like loading easier is allowing gas to escape around the wad not allowing the primer to exert enough on the powder itself. Here's an idea, and simply an idea. I understand that it's a 12 ga bore to the best of my knowledge. You could try using a 12 ga gas seal over the powder before you run the wad down the pipe. That may allow enough back pressure to ignite the bh209. Might even try a felt or cork wad filler on top of the powder. Those are the only things I could think of at the moment but it certainly sounds to me as if that's the issue. BH209 suggest a closed breech for reliable ignition and when gasses are already expelling from the breech and then also allowed to bypass the wad, I'd bet that's the issue. Shame you can't get more of the pink wads.
was thinking about calling ballistic products giving them measurement and seeing if they had a match....the white wads did do well with pyrodex select so I can at least take it hunting for now. Had a great pattern with 1.5oz fed heviweight 1oz lead 8s very dense.over 80gr of pyrodex select.
Well, at least there's a backup plan. I'd bet that if the gas seal were tight enough, it'd still work though. Having said that, if BP can get you a properly sized replacement, you'd be in much better shape. Good luck with it and keep me posted.
Where you guys getting your HeviShot from?
I'm gonna try some #8 & #9 TSS shot in my TK2K. I'd think one or a combo would be great.