I talked to a warden today, at length about our localturkey population. Maine has gone to a 5 bird limit in certain units for the fall season. I asked him why and he explained that the population has reached its potential and they fear that it will get much worse. There is one more year on their study but it looks like they will have to net a bunch of birds and transplant them up north, which isn't a terrible idea. He said they are encouraging taking hens to curb the population and keep the spring hunt in tact. My dilemma is that most of my hunting spots are in the biggest area of concern to them and they are not optimistic about the outcome. There are a ton of birds around here and human interaction is getting higher all the time. More houses and dam condos being built every day. Do I buy into this and go on a seek and destroy this fall and urge my buddies to do the same?, or do I just let it ride? We could actually thin them out a bit with all of us, but shooting hens is not my thing. Just looking for everybody's opinion. Thanks, Al
That's a tough one. Myself I wouldn't shoot the hens, that's just me. Perhaps a Jake or two but that's about as far as I would go. We can shoot hens in the fall here and I don't think our population can afford to have any hens removed. Best of luck with your decision.
Your decision. But there may be a day in the near future that you wish you and your buddies hadn't filled all those tags. But there are states that have done it for years with no issue's. Here in the South AL/GA we don't have a fall season, but yet our populations have steadily declined in most areas for several years. I'd choose wisely. I'd treat an excess of turkeys like an excess of money. Just because you have a little extra doesn't necessarily mean you should spend it. It may come in handy during harder times.
It's all a management strategies, and i'm sure they are thinking this is a way to keep the flock balance. I think in deciding to take hens it all depends on the amount of good habitat you have in your area, if i had less birds , maybe it's wish to hunt different area with great numbers of birds. It's your decision to kill or not to kill... just my opinion ..
You are really the only one that can make that decision. Think it over and make a decision. Just remember "no regerts"
I have never killed a hen and most likely never will. Same with jakes. I dont think over population of turkeys are the same as with whitetails . Lifes hard on turkeys and 2 consecutive years with poor hatches will reduce that population quickly. Im in the camp that if you want plenty of gobblers to hunt , dont kill the egg layers. What others do is their own business but this is the way I see it and my personal management.
I do not know as much as many here do, but I just view it as killing the future by killing hens. I have chosen not to shoot doe with fawn in the fall as well, people say I am nuts, I have read a few things that say the longer a fawn has it's mother the more likely it will live longer and maybe get those large racks, I reckon it is much the same with turkey. (Though I think poults leave the hen much faster that fawns/yearlings do.
I have never hunted in the fall, this may be my first time. If I do, I already made up my mind to hunt a couple old dinosaurs that I got permission to crossbow hunt. No guns on this farm. If I could gun hunt this, my wife and daughter would have had a good chance on winning the local gun shop's pool :OGturkeyhead:.
You can't stock pile wildlife. The predator population is about to explode and your losing habitat.
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A lot of people above my pay grade are doing the research to assess populations and carrying capacity of specific areas within your state. I respect their professional opinion if they think the average fall hunter success rate can handle a harvest using 5 tags.
Pennsylvania has a long fall season tradition, its one bird either sex and I enjoy a fall hunt as much as the spring. Five tags seems like a lot given what I'm accustomed to, and if I lived there I doubt I would fill but one or two.
But outsmarting a gang of reclusive longbeards or breaking a fall flock to hear the entire turkey vocabulary as they gather back is a ritual I cherish each and every season but personally I don't need five punched tags to check that box.
I would just shoot 5 Tom's and smile real big with each trigger pull. I shoot 4 Tom's in my state in the fall but 2 have to be with a bow.
In WNY state wildlife biologist sat on their "hands" and watched the turkey take plummet from 2002 to 2015 before acknowledging and reacting to the problem. Hunter's complaints fell on "deaf" ears for years. There reaction was to take away 2 weeks of fall hunting and promote shooting gobblers only. Years ago, late 1950s, WNY sent trap and transfer birds to promulgate the whole east coast, including Maine. I haven't hunted the fall season in 10 years. I used to love it. I wish we had your problem.....
Quote from: fallhnt on August 28, 2019, 10:42:59 PM
You can't stock pile wildlife. The predator population is about to explode and your losing habitat.
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Yes sir. Kill as many as you can and hope everyone else thats hunting does the same. We dont need to save any of them. Consider them a unlimited resource.
Let your conscience be your guide. I started hunting in the fall several years ago, it was a chance to be in the woods. I didn't hunt properties big enough to bust'em up the traditional way. I relied on gentle or lost calling. Hens are legal but I shot jakes or better. They're a different bird outside of the breeding cycle. I learned a lot and really enjoyed it. We only get a week in October and a week in December for firearms. I use most of the squirrel season to scout birds.
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on August 29, 2019, 09:57:06 AM
Quote from: fallhnt on August 28, 2019, 10:42:59 PM
You can't stock pile wildlife. The predator population is about to explode and your losing habitat.
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Yes sir. Kill as many as you can and hope everyone else thats hunting does the same. We dont need to save any of them. Consider them a unlimited resource.
Not looking for an argument, just opinions on the situation. I figured some of the old timers here have lived through similar situations and looking for feedback. I understand that I am my own master and will let my conscience be my guide. Just a huge jump in the fall limits and I want to learn more to be better equipped to make good decisions. Thank you all for your input. Al Baker :funnyturkey:
Quote from: tracker#1 on August 29, 2019, 07:20:54 AM
In WNY state wildlife biologist sat on their "hands" and watched the turkey take plummet from 2002 to 2015 before acknowledging and reacting to the problem. Hunter's complaints fell on "deaf" ears for years. There reaction was to take away 2 weeks of fall hunting and promote shooting gobblers only. Years ago, late 1950s, WNY sent trap and transfer birds to promulgate the whole east coast, including Maine. I haven't hunted the fall season in 10 years. I used to love it. I wish we had your problem.....
NY DEC do nothing? Surly you jest! ::)
I will say this, I have nothing in the world against fall hunting and killing legal birds. Also predators take out a whole lot of birds through the year. I just dont understand why the DNR think that the wild turkey population in areas are excessive. A few years of bad hatches put the numbers low. The population will fluctuate from year to year. The majority of birds will not survive past 4 years. I just cannot understand how any habitat can be over populated with birds. Deer can graze a place out and the herd can be beyond numbers for a habitat to sustain , but wild turkeys always have a food source and do not eat near what large game animals do. Im no biologist and this is just my opinion. You just cannot convince me that wild turkeys can be over populated. Loss of habitat is the biggest factor in turkey numbers. It disappears then birds disappear. If its there birds will flourish and numbers will never stay above carrying capacity.
I'm not a hen hunter. Only killed one with a bow on a WMA decades ago.
I would say, just do what YOU feel is right. A 5 bird fall limit is a lot of birds, but not many people will actually take all 5. Some will kill all hens, some a mix, some greedy guys will kill 5 gobblers in the fall and go for more in the spring.
My point is, you cannot control other people, nor can you control the wildlife department does. So I would just do what you feel is right.
Quote from: zelmo1 on August 29, 2019, 12:26:09 PM
Quote from: Spitten and drummen on August 29, 2019, 09:57:06 AM
Quote from: fallhnt on August 28, 2019, 10:42:59 PM
You can't stock pile wildlife. The predator population is about to explode and your losing habitat.
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Yes sir. Kill as many as you can and hope everyone else thats hunting does the same. We dont need to save any of them. Consider them a unlimited resource.
Not looking for an argument, just opinions on the situation. I figured some of the old timers here have lived through similar situations and looking for feedback. I understand that I am my own master and will let my conscience be my guide. Just a huge jump in the fall limits and I want to learn more to be better equipped to make good decisions. Thank you all for your input. Al Baker :funnyturkey:
Not looking for an argument on this forum seems to be a thing of the past.
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I would look closely at my DNR. How have they managed Turkeys and other game animals in the past? If they have been successful then I would follow their lead: if not I would probably continue hunting the way I always have. I do not really like fall hunting although I have done so and enjoyed busting up a flock and calling them back.
One thing you need to consider about the opinions on this forum is that the majority of participants have matured and developed as hunters. Most I would suggest are Trophy hunters and picky with what they shoot. But what a grand opportunity additional tags would be to beginners or individuals just stating to hunt. They could really taste some success with the opportunity provided with those extra tags. Just my thoughts.
Quote from: mtns2hunt on August 29, 2019, 08:45:32 PM
I would look closely at my DNR. How have they managed Turkeys and other game animals in the past? If they have been successful then I would follow their lead: if not I would probably continue hunting the way I always have. I do not really like fall hunting although I have done so and enjoyed busting up a flock and calling them back.
One thing you need to consider about the opinions on this forum is that the majority of participants have matured and developed as hunters. Most I would suggest are Trophy hunters and picky with what they shoot. But what a grand opportunity additional tags would be to beginners or individuals just stating to hunt. They could really taste some success with the opportunity provided with those extra tags. Just my thoughts.
Well said.
Well you said at the beginning you had a lot of birds. I think I might try to do what the DNR is asking before Mother Nature takes care of the population herself.You get some good eating and some great wingbones for calls. Chances are if you don't kill 5 hens something else probably will anyway. You can always back off next year if you notice a difference
Some great info in this thread. If a property you hunt is about to fall to the developers, I would probably take all that was legal. Turkey populations can drop big time in one year. But they can also rebound quicker than larger animals in good habitat. (The only large animal exception being a blasted pig). Talking with old turkey hunters across the board they considered killing a hen taboo, but populations were awful low back in the day. I personally don't kill hens as a nod to tradition and conservation although I don't hold it against hunters who harvest one legally. I won't kill a jake in the spring but do in the fall. A hunter here who has killed 10x more birds than I ever will won't kill jakes because he believes around 75% of them make it to two years. But he has a very large property that holds birds from hatching to death. He traps extensively every year. I just don't feel that many jakes live to two years old. You can get a lot of argument or discussion there. Jennys stay with the mother hen until next years break-up. They learn a lot from the hen. Jakes are run off usually in early fall of their first year. They are the easiest bird to kill. So what is the answer to your dilemma? I'm not sure there is one correct answer.
I wouldn't do it and I most certainly would not encourage others to do it...
I was hoping some of the TN boys would chime in.
They used to could kill up to 6 birds per county. Some guys would hunt several counties in the fall killing 30 or more birds. Some guys would just shoot into the whole flock in hopes of killing multiple birds with one shot. Now I'm sure a bunch wish they hadn't. It's like someone mentioned above just because you have extra money doesn't mean you should spend it..
Thanks for making an informed decision and good luck this fall.
I have a question about inbreeding vs the lifespan of a turkey. In high population areas how much inbreeding is happening? Also is inbreeding causing an issue? Could the inbreeding over the year reduce the lifespan of turkeys and decease productivity? What are you thoughts on this subject. Could explain a lot of the decline of the wild turkey. This came up about the cat at my other house. I inherited a bunch of cats. All which seem to be around the same age but these cat have been like this for a number of years. A buddy of mine said cat that are inbreeding will have a shorter lifespan and lower production rate. I noticed last weekend that the cat with kittens only have a max 2 kittens each. So what IF this is happening to turkeys? IF hens are living shorter lifespans and producing less pouts this would affect population.
A good question and I'm not sure there is science to back up an answer. Spring break-up should take care of blood lines mixing that would be too close. You mentioned cats and I have seen cats in-breeding that caused deformities. A small pocket of habitat surrounded by an expanse of territory that would keep them from crossing.... I dunno
Quote from: tal on August 30, 2019, 10:35:40 PM
A good question and I'm not sure there is science to back up an answer. Spring break-up should take care of blood lines mixing that would be too close. You mentioned cats and I have seen cats in-breeding that caused deformities. A small pocket of habitat surrounded by an expanse of territory that would keep them from crossing.... I dunno
It does make you wonder. With so many hunting clubs having limited amount of hunting and large flocks. Throw in some bad hatches and all the other factors. Make one say huh doesn't it. But back to the original question to kill hens or not. Well no one makes me shoot them but I sure enjoy hunting them.
How many of you have seen a winter flock breaking up in early spring and head out in different directions ? I have seen this twice , if you haven't it's something to see.... It's like turkeys know , what to do to keep from in-breeding etc...
But which gobblers go with which flock? Something to ponder on. Besides I'm bored. Hahahaha
5 is lot of tags and if fall participation was high and ever one went after fall turkeys strong it would destroy the population. By that ain't happening because participation in fall turkey is at all time low its all about the spring now. Zelmo if I were you I would go enjoy your fall hunt and kill couple I would not worry a bit about taking 1 or 2 out now 5 ibwould be concerned with myself.
Oh I meant to also add I'm a fall hunter if you wanna pass on the area where all these fall birds are I'd love to go hunt1 or 2
Quote from: guesswho on August 28, 2019, 06:36:45 PM
Your decision. But there may be a day in the near future that you wish you and your buddies hadn't filled all those tags. But there are states that have done it for years with no issue's. Here in the South AL/GA we don't have a fall season, but yet our populations have steadily declined in most areas for several years. I'd choose wisely. I'd treat an excess of turkeys like an excess of money. Just because you have a little extra doesn't necessarily mean you should spend it. It may come in handy during harder times.
I would agree.