Has anyone shot a Turkey with #4 TSS? While TSS #9 pattern very well I am finding that #4 also patterns well enough to kill a Turkey. Plus it is a good Coyote. Looking for versatility.
Never tried 4's, but I've often thought that the larger TSS would be better suited to body shooting them.
I have to ask why. It defeats everything that is advantageous about tss.
Here is the difference if 9 and 4. I just shot these a few weeks ago. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/5b0c984833a905ec91c618624ae444e6.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/5d7bb9eea6799332907e0c0daad1fe24.jpg)
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Quote from: dirt road ninja on January 24, 2020, 07:44:50 PM
Never tried 4's, but I've often thought that the larger TSS would be better suited to body shooting them.
No offense dirt road but should we even bring up body shooting turkeys. I get what you are saying but we have many that are just starting out and may get the impression that body shooting turkeys is an acceptable practice.
body shot? so you mean no eating the breast!
Have you ever bit down on TSS shot , you want do it but once ... I agree why 4 TSS ?...
Quote from: Gooserbat on January 24, 2020, 08:39:38 PM
I have to ask why. It defeats everything that is advantageous about tss.
I am not sure it defeats every thing that is advantageous about TSS.
#4 TSS has good penetration and good range. Sure number 9 TSS will provide more pellets in the 10 circle if that is what you want. But #4 shot places more than enough pellets in the 10" to provide clean kills.
My reason for asking is that I am just as libel to call in or see a Coyote as a Turkey. I like the idea of being able to shoot either a Coyote or Turkey and #4 seems to fit that bill nicely.
I'm interested in what #4 will do to the Turkey. I suspect it will penetrate completely through the Turkey. My patterns are tight enough for head shots. I have no interest in body shots other than on Coyotes but if others do that it is their business. I have seen many videos with body shot Turkeys.
I am currently loading #9 and #4 TSS for Turkey and Coyote. I will generally use #9 for Turkey and the #4 for Coyote. I have used #4 and #5 LB for turkey in the past and it worked well. However should the opportunity present I would not hesitate to shoot a Turkey with #4 TSS.
BBcoach has been kind enough to post some patterns of Apex pred #4's. My hand loads are very close to his patterns. Did not know that Apex loaded #4's however I will continue to hand load since I am geared up and like hand loading. His patterns would certainly kill a coyote or Turkey
I am grateful for all the feedback but still have not heard from anyone that has used #4 TSS on Turkey's. I know someone out there has made such a shot. If no response I will try #4's on Turkey's this Spring and post my findings.
Finally while some may find my interest in using #4 TSS misguided on Turkeys remember it was not to long ago that many thought TSS was being used by a rouge element of Turkey hunters. Now look at it - its main stream. I am grateful to the experimenters and I will always try different things to improve my hunting.
9s will crush a coyote
I've killed yotes at 40+ with tss#9. If in doubt shoot 8s.
4s??? Why not use a rocket launcher?
Seriously, 9s will kill a yote dead. And turkey hunting is the only time I won't shoot a coyote.
The pattern of 4s shown above is not dense enough for me to hunt turkey with. Just IMHO.
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9 TSS will smoke a yote! But if you're in doubt then try 7's or even 8's. I would guess that 7 TSS would be a great compromise for an all-purpose load for yotes or turkeys. Some overkill on the turkeys but it would still be a good load. I've had 9 tss pass completely through a turkey so 7's would be no issue on penetration.
That #4 pattern looks great for yotes but looks terrible for turkeys. You don't have to have that #9 pattern but no way I'd be satisfied with the #4 pattern. I was never ok with that back 20 years ago shooting lead.
No where near the pattern density I want for turkey hunting with #4s.
I agree with the above, not nearly enough pattern density with those #4s for turkey hunting. I know we strive to get turkeys to forty yards and under, but let's face it, we all sometimes misjudge yardage in the heat of the moment. I know I have. What if your guess is off by a few yards? You'd probably have less than 30 of those pellets inside the 10. General wisdom says you want minimum 100 pellets in the ten at the given range you want to shoot, to ensure a clean kill. Besides, a strong load of #9 tss in the face at 40 yards is going to stone a coyote. At the very least it will make him seriously question his life choices at that moment.
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I will stick with #9. Way plenty for turkeys. More pellets and waaaay more energy thats needed. That stuff is devestating.
This sounds like you want to shoot a turkey too far. Call him in.
I rolled a coyote last year with TSS 9s from a 20 gauge at about 30 yards.
I agree with everyone that I wouldn't use 4s either. I patterned it for coyotes. If your interested her is what 4s look like at 100 shooting at a spot of duck tape. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/ebd9d18f06ba1b6926a8e57bcbe2b518.jpg)
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Thank you for all the opinions. The consensus is that the #4's are not sufficient for Turkey and #9 's are good enough for Turkey's. As for the statement that I am interested in shooting them at to far a range: that is pure speculation and simply not true. If I wanted more range I can shoot them with a rifle which is legal in my state.
Will #9 TSS kill a Turkey? Certainly, within limits but it is clearly not the ideal choice. I don't wish to change his choice in life as some one stated but to kill him dead with no fuss. Number #4's will do that out to sixty yards maybe farther. My preferred range is 40 yards for coyote and under 40 for turkey.
I have never shot at anything out to 100 yds with a shotgun but the pattern is interesting.
Now as to number #4 for turkey. I'm uncertain as to why no one suggested changing chokes to improve the pattern. I am currently using a Pattern Master but will also be patterning with an Indian Creek and Carlson's. As to #4 TSS: I look at it as having good patterns and great penetration. I killed many Turkeys with #4 LB with no issues. I am using a single shot 20 gauge. Most of my previous kills were with a 12g for clarification.
Still my main question is has anyone killed a Turkey with #4 TSS and what were your results. Again thank you for all the feedback.
Quote from: YukonC on January 25, 2020, 09:00:23 AM
I agree with everyone that I wouldn't use 4s either. I patterned it for coyotes. If your interested her is what 4s look like at 100 shooting at a spot of duck tape. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/ebd9d18f06ba1b6926a8e57bcbe2b518.jpg)
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Rule of thumb for a turkey pattern is 100 pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards for a clean kill. Forget the #4 TSS. For coyotes, I would think 500 #9's TSS would definitely kill a yote at 40 to 50 yards as long as you punch him in the ribcage. A buddy of mine, rolled 2 yotes at 30 with a load of #6 LB's.
Quote from: mtns2hunt on January 25, 2020, 10:46:40 AM
Thank you for all the opinions. The consensus is that the #4's are not sufficient for Turkey and #9 's are good enough for Turkey's. As for the statement that I am interested in shooting them at to far a range: that is pure speculation and simply not true. If I wanted more range I can shoot them with a rifle which is legal in my state.
Will #9 TSS kill a Turkey? Certainly, within limits but it is clearly not the ideal choice. I don't wish to change his choice in life as some one stated but to kill him dead with no fuss. Number #4's will do that out to sixty yards maybe farther. My preferred range is 40 yards for coyote and under 40 for turkey.
I have never shot at anything out to 100 yds with a shotgun but the pattern is interesting.
Now as to number #4 for turkey. I'm uncertain as to why no one suggested changing chokes to improve the pattern. I am currently using a Pattern Master but will also be patterning with an Indian Creek and Carlson's. As to #4 TSS: I look at it as having good patterns and great penetration. I killed many Turkeys with #4 LB with no issues. I am using a single shot 20 gauge. Most of my previous kills were with a 12g for clarification.
Still my main question is has anyone killed a Turkey with #4 TSS and what were your results. Again thank you for all the feedback.
The part about changing his life choices was a joke. Seriously, if your range for coyotes is 40 yards then #9 tss will stomp him. As far as #9 tss not being the "ideal choice" for turkeys, I'm not sure what you mean there. 400+ pellets in a ten inch ring at 40 yards is some bad medicine. The density of tss makes that #9 pellet equal in energy or "knockdown" to a #5 lead pellet. That's been proven. Plus, the smaller tss will have greater penetration. Not being smart, but have you ever shot a turkey with #9 tss? It's devastating within 40 yards. It remains lethal WAY past 40 yards, though I don't recommend anybody taking a shot at that distance.
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It seems to me that switching to #4 shot for TSS is defeating the whole purpose of TSS. TSS increases the energy to pellet ratio, while giving you a whole lot more pellets due to using a smaller size pellet. This also allows a lot of guys to switch to a smaller gauge shotgun for less weight carried around in the woods. Then when you have numerous guys stating that either they or their friend has rolled yotes with #9 TSS out of a 20 gauge, it makes no sense, at least to me, to shoot #4 TSS.
I remember patterning a shotgun on a coke can and if you got 5-10 pellets you stepped back 5 yards and shot again. If you did not have 5-10 pellets, well the last place you did was your max range. I never heard of a 10" circle until I joined here and then I went crazy the other way. Killed turkeys fine with my coke can and probably took less risky shots than what my big 10" circle gave me confidence to take. These days I like somewhere in the middle.
Quote from: bbcoach on January 25, 2020, 11:11:37 AM
Quote from: YukonC on January 25, 2020, 09:00:23 AM
I agree with everyone that I wouldn't use 4s either. I patterned it for coyotes. If your interested her is what 4s look like at 100 shooting at a spot of duck tape. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/ebd9d18f06ba1b6926a8e57bcbe2b518.jpg)
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Rule of thumb for a turkey pattern is 100 pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards for a clean kill. Forget the #4 TSS. For coyotes, I would think 500 #9's TSS would definitely kill a yote at 40 to 50 yards as long as you punch him in the ribcage. A buddy of mine, rolled 2 yotes at 30 with a load of #6 LB's.
Interesting pattern at 100 with #4's do you have on at 100 yds with #9's ?
Quote from: mtns2hunt on January 25, 2020, 06:26:57 PM
Quote from: bbcoach on January 25, 2020, 11:11:37 AM
Quote from: YukonC on January 25, 2020, 09:00:23 AM
I agree with everyone that I wouldn't use 4s either. I patterned it for coyotes. If your interested her is what 4s look like at 100 shooting at a spot of duck tape. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200125/ebd9d18f06ba1b6926a8e57bcbe2b518.jpg)
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Rule of thumb for a turkey pattern is 100 pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards for a clean kill. Forget the #4 TSS. For coyotes, I would think 500 #9's TSS would definitely kill a yote at 40 to 50 yards as long as you punch him in the ribcage. A buddy of mine, rolled 2 yotes at 30 with a load of #6 LB's.
Interesting pattern at 100 with #4's do you have on at 100 yds with #9's ?
By that point my shoulder was beyond help so I had to stop. I may try next year when I do the annual pattern session.
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Quote from: RutnNStrutn on January 25, 2020, 01:35:58 PM
It seems to me that switching to #4 shot for TSS is defeating the whole purpose of TSS. TSS increases the energy to pellet ratio, while giving you a whole lot more pellets due to using a smaller size pellet. This also allows a lot of guys to switch to a smaller gauge shotgun for less weight carried around in the woods. Then when you have numerous guys stating that either they or their friend has rolled yotes with #9 TSS out of a 20 gauge, it makes no sense, at least to me, to shoot #4 TSS.
I think we could go around and around on this topic. What is the purpose of TSS? To kill critters! How the TSS is used for this is up to the person using it. TSS is just another tool. I am looking for the best way to use this new tool. I know beyond a doubt that most TSS will kill a Turkey and whether you use #9, or #4 you owe it to the game to kill quickly and efficiently. I fine tune my loads for what ever game I hunt. My #4 TSS will shoot patterns more than capable of taking a Turkey at 40 yards as will my #9. Coyotes fall quickly to #4 at extended distances. I know that #9's will kill coyotes but I do not know at what distance they perform best. I do not think they are equal to the #4 in down range energy. Most any shell will kill or injure a Coyote. I have even heard on several occasions about dove loads being used to kill and sometimes wound coyotes. No sense in that: my loads will kill quickly and efficiently at the ranges I decide to shoot at. Thank you for all of your opinions. I may not agree but I do value each and everyone.
Quote from: mtns2hunt on January 25, 2020, 10:46:40 AM
Thank you for all the opinions. The consensus is that the #4's are not sufficient for Turkey and #9 's are good enough for Turkey's. As for the statement that I am interested in shooting them at to far a range: that is pure speculation and simply not true. If I wanted more range I can shoot them with a rifle which is legal in my state.
Will #9 TSS kill a Turkey? Certainly, within limits but it is clearly not the ideal choice. I don't wish to change his choice in life as some one stated but to kill him dead with no fuss. Number #4's will do that out to sixty yards maybe farther. My preferred range is 40 yards for coyote and under 40 for turkey.
I have never shot at anything out to 100 yds with a shotgun but the pattern is interesting.
Now as to number #4 for turkey. I'm uncertain as to why no one suggested changing chokes to improve the pattern. I am currently using a Pattern Master but will also be patterning with an Indian Creek and Carlson's. As to #4 TSS: I look at it as having good patterns and great penetration. I killed many Turkeys with #4 LB with no issues. I am using a single shot 20 gauge. Most of my previous kills were with a 12g for clarification.
Still my main question is has anyone killed a Turkey with #4 TSS and what were your results. Again thank you for all the feedback.
4s are fine for turkeys if your gun/choke/shell combo works. I'll do 140-150 with 3 1/2 in longbeards through one of my chokes and my old 870. The old Winn HV weren't much less. I prefer 4s for where I hunt in thick hardwoods.
Quote from: mtns2hunt on January 25, 2020, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on January 25, 2020, 01:35:58 PM
It seems to me that switching to #4 shot for TSS is defeating the whole purpose of TSS. TSS increases the energy to pellet ratio, while giving you a whole lot more pellets due to using a smaller size pellet. This also allows a lot of guys to switch to a smaller gauge shotgun for less weight carried around in the woods. Then when you have numerous guys stating that either they or their friend has rolled yotes with #9 TSS out of a 20 gauge, it makes no sense, at least to me, to shoot #4 TSS.
I think we could go around and around on this topic. What is the purpose of TSS? To kill critters! How the TSS is used for this is up to the person using it. TSS is just another tool. I am looking for the best way to use this new tool. I know beyond a doubt that most TSS will kill a Turkey and whether you use #9, or #4 you owe it to the game to kill quickly and efficiently. I fine tune my loads for what ever game I hunt. My #4 TSS will shoot patterns more than capable of taking a Turkey at 40 yards as will my #9. Coyotes fall quickly to #4 at extended distances. I know that #9's will kill coyotes but I do not know at what distance they perform best. I do not think they are equal to the #4 in down range energy. Most any shell will kill or injure a Coyote. I have even heard on several occasions about dove loads being used to kill and sometimes wound coyotes. No sense in that: my loads will kill quickly and efficiently at the ranges I decide to shoot at. Thank you for all of your opinions. I may not agree but I do value each and everyone.
I would argue that #4 TSS would be less effective downrange than #9s. Part of the reason 9s are so effective is because there is twice as many pellets in each shot, and the smaller diameter penetrates the air with less resistance than the larger lead shot. You lose both of these advantages by shooting #4s. You could argue that #4 TSS is more effective than #4 lead because of the increased weight of each individual pellet, but I'd argue any benefit you'd receive from that would be immaterial, i.e. overkill. I cannot think of any advantage of shooting 4s instead of the 9s.
Quote from: mtns2hunt on January 25, 2020, 09:33:02 PM
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on January 25, 2020, 01:35:58 PM
It seems to me that switching to #4 shot for TSS is defeating the whole purpose of TSS. TSS increases the energy to pellet ratio, while giving you a whole lot more pellets due to using a smaller size pellet. This also allows a lot of guys to switch to a smaller gauge shotgun for less weight carried around in the woods. Then when you have numerous guys stating that either they or their friend has rolled yotes with #9 TSS out of a 20 gauge, it makes no sense, at least to me, to shoot #4 TSS.
My #4 TSS will shoot patterns more than capable of taking a Turkey at 40 yards as will my #9. Coyotes fall quickly to #4 at extended distances.
So what's your #4 TSS pattern look like? The couple examples I've seen above in this thread, I would not shoot at a turkey. This be a turkey hunting forum, not predator hunting.
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Quote from: mtns2hunt on January 25, 2020, 10:46:40 AM
Will #9 TSS kill a Turkey? Certainly, within limits but it is clearly not the ideal choice. I don't wish to change his choice in life as some one stated but to kill him dead with no fuss. Number #4's will do that out to sixty yards maybe farther. My preferred range is 40 yards for coyote and under 40 for turkey.
What?? Not the ideal choice in what scenario?
A #9 TSS has the ability to kill a turkey at stupid distances. If 40 is your max for yotes and turkey there is no need to go larger than a #9s TSS.
I apologize for ruffing so many feathers. #4 LB works fine for Turkey. So by my reasoning #4 TSS holding the same pattern should do better. Now I understand that #9 TSS is the new kid on the block just as LB was not Long ago. I have to wonder if we will be shooting DU in the near future LOL.
Now, if I choose to use #4 TSS or carry it in my pocket for possible use during Turkey season that is solely my business and is entirely legal in my state. I hunt Turkey's a lot and have great respect for them. I am also an avid Predator hunter having harvested many of the great predators in the US and Canada. I am looking for a load that will cleanly harvest a Turkey or Coyote. #9 TSS is very effective and may be great out to 40 yards or farther. My comfort range with #9 is forty yards as I have only patterned out to fifty with good results. #4 will pattern very well from 20 to 60 yards and I would feel more comfortable with #4 at sixty than #9. Clearly many on here have killed Coyotes with #9 because that is what they had in their shotgun at the time. My original question was designed to elicit responses as to how effective #4 TSS can be on Turkey's in their experience. Clearly no one appears to have this information.
Later, after Bobcat season ends I will pattern both #9's and #4 TSS at different ranges to determine exactly what ranges are effective for #9 and #4. I had hoped to eliminate some of this from forum members information. I will be testing different chokes and the different loads to see what works best.
I think it is appropriate to limit some of the information I provide on a public forum as to not adversely affect new or inexperienced members.
I also realize this is a Turkey forum and have learned a great deal from members on this forum. But that should not prevent any member from asking questions that may bleed over into other disciplines.
"TSS has the ability to kill a Turkey at stupid distances." Not to be personal but that has to be one of the most "moronic" statements I have ever heard. What in the world is a stupid distance? It shows total disrespect for the game and ignorance of the performance of one's shotgun, load and choke.
I never intended for this topic to become a debate. In the past my questions have been answered quickly and accurately with no arguments or bickering. When I have finished my patterning and testing I will return to this topic and post my findings.
If my gun would shoot a pattern like Yukon C posted at 100 yards with TSS 4's, I would sell all my other guns and just use it for everything including deer! Am curious to know if that gun will do that every time or if that was the best of multiple shots fired at that distance. I watched my son shoot two turkeys with 12 ga 3 inch TSS 4 shot I handloaded last year and it does to a turkey exactly what you would think it does to a turkey. He carries them in his vest for the occasional shot opportunity at hogs but had run low on shells from missing a bird earlier in the day and used them because that was all he had left before returning to truck to get more TSS 8.
Quote from: deadbuck on January 28, 2020, 12:08:12 PM
If my gun would shoot a pattern like Yukon C posted at 100 yards with TSS 4's, I would sell all my other guns and just use it for everything including deer! Am curious to know if that gun will do that every time or if that was the best of multiple shots fired at that distance. I watched my son shoot two turkeys with 12 ga 3 inch TSS 4 shot I handloaded last year and it does to a turkey exactly what you would think it does to a turkey. He carries them in his vest for the occasional shot opportunity at hogs but had run low on shells from missing a bird earlier in the day and used them because that was all he had left before returning to truck to get more TSS 8.
That was one shot at 100yrds at the end of my shooting session for sighting in my Burris fast fire and testing the new choke. I had shot 14 3 1/2" shells at 41yrds up to that point so I was smoked to say the least. I had zero faith in seeing any holes in even the entire green poster board when I drove down to the target but I was shocked. I will eventually try it again but not for a while.
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I agree with mtns2hunt, you don't need TSS. I can kill birds all day long at 40 yards with #4 and #5 Longbeards.