For sure, past a certain point-all of us are more or less equal in terms of calling a gobbler up to the gun. Once a Spring turkey hunter calls in roughly 40 gobblers for a close shot-- that person has probably seen and heard it all and is without a doubt a very good Spring turkey hunter. And high numbers of turkeys taken and many States hunted in each Spring make no difference. I probably have more respect for the Spring hunter who makes a go of it for 25 days in 1 State and finally bags that gobbler. That person is a very good Spring turkey hunter.
There are great turkey hunters as well- some are well known- others are known to you. They are gone now... Read Jim Casada's book-- REMEMBERING THE GREATS. Enjoy your Spring turkey hunts.
That book is incomplete because I'm not in it. :o
:TooFunny: :goofball:
I have read REMEMBERING THE GREATS twice now. To be in that book-- you have to be deceased.
Quote from: quavers59 on July 19, 2017, 02:06:48 PM
I have read REMEMBERING THE GREATS twice now. To be in that book-- you have to be deceased.
I'll wait my turn, then...................... Haha !!!
I think the guys that get to hunt long seasons and liberal limits become better turkey hunters than the guys that live in places where the turkey just isn't as educated. I know that if I was to have a major surgery, I would want a Dr that has been practicing for many years rather than a surgeon with just a few years under his belt.
Without naming names....I once met and later had the opportunity to hunt with one of these big-shot "professional" turkey hunters. With sponsors and stickers galore. Looked more like a Nascar driver than a hunter. The guy didn't have a lick of woodsmanship and couldn't tell a pin oak from a poplar. Kept talking about "poisonous" snakes and his new boots. He had a huge bright white logo on his hat also. And he texted and took pictures constantly. Once he said "check out those hawks!!" They were buzzards. He used a mouth call and a Walmart pot call that both make the sound of a possum being strangled. The whole time talking about all the turkeys he's killed. On that hunt we never saw or heard anything. Not sure why. #?&@#!!!
Real turkey hunters don't do it to be famous or even recognized. We all here know this. That's another story.
The guy who kills one in 25 days has demonstrated an inability to integrate knowledge gained from previous hunts into a well formulated strategy and leverage it for success. I don't find anything respectable about that.
Whether it's on their local turf or out of state, the guys who show up and get to killing quickly rarely get a chance to know what birds are tough or "unkillable" and what birds are easy because they have developed a consistent set of skills that apply universally across all environments and habitats.
If I had to have someone yelping up a bird for me, I'll take someone who's called (not crawled or reaped) 200 birds to the gun over someone who has only called up 40. There's a big difference in how those callers think while the game is being played, and analytical skills are the single greatest differentiator in a bird over one's shoulder and a story about the one that got away.
I also dispute that the greatest turkey killers of all time are from the past. On the contrary, I would argue that names Owens, Ellis, Weddle, Budz and several others will easily endure the test of time when it comes occupying the ranks of turkey huntings greatest.
JM.02
I'm not sure what the number is,...whether in terms of gobblers called, days hunted, or places visited,...but once a serious hunter has spent enough time doing this, he should reach a level of competence in calling and tactics used that his success or failure becomes more a function of opportunity, locale, time afield, perseverance,...and sometimes most importantly, the random luck of choosing the right gobbler to hunt at the right time.
Having said all of that, there are a percentage of hunters who are just "intuitively" better at making the right decisions in terms of calling and tactics than others. I also believe that, in today's turkey hunting world,... where anybody with any initiative as a turkey hunter can become a competent caller,...those "intuitive" differences are mainly a function of tactics more so than calling.
...And having said that, sometimes those "intuitive" decisions by the hunter do not match up with the calling and tactics that any one gobbler wants to be approached with at any given time. There reaches a point where calling ability and tactical skills become less important than the gobbler's attitude that you are using them on.
.......And having said all of that, all other factors being equal, I will always place my money on the fellow that has hunted under many sets of circumstances and conditions than the fellow with equal experience who has not.
Well said. In my experience, a guy with 50 birds +/- under his belt is a force to be reckoned with.
The guys you mentioned are definitely upper tier killers. To me, being a good hunter is one thing. A Great killer is a man who makes it happen - anytime, anywhere and often on unfamiliar ground.
A guy who hits home runs on turf he hunts every day isn't near as impressive or good as the man who kills birds on ground he hasn't ever set foot on.. with consistency.
There are some dudes out there who are young, have the funds to travel and kill their birds ( and some of yours).. Guys with several hundred birds to their credit.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on July 19, 2017, 04:23:29 PM
The guy who kills one in 25 days has demonstrated an inability to integrate knowledge gained from previous hunts into a well formulated strategy and leverage it for success. I don't find anything respectable about that.
Whether it's on their local turf or out of state, the guys who show up and get to killing quickly rarely get a chance to know what birds are tough or "unkillable" and what birds are easy because they have developed a consistent set of skills that apply universally across all environments and habitats.
If I had to have someone yelping up a bird for me, I'll take someone who's called (not crawled or reaped) 200 birds to the gun over someone who has only called up 40. There's a big difference in how those callers think while the game is being played, and analytical skills are the single greatest differentiator in a bird over one's shoulder and a story about the one that got away.
I also dispute that the greatest turkey killers of all time are from the past. On the contrary, I would argue that names Owens, Ellis, Weddle, Budz and several others will easily endure the test of time when it comes occupying the ranks of turkey huntings greatest.
JM.02
Furthermore, there is a difference between hunting and killing. Hunting is hiking with a firearm - until you kill. I like to kill Gobblers. As many as I possibly can in as many places as I get to go.. until I physically can't go anymore. For me, I have fewer seasons ahead than I do behind me.. 2018 marks my 40th season. I hope it's as much fun as the ones that are already history.
Good luck to all of you. These threads rub some folks the wrong way. For that a man needs to look inward. If you are not killing birds or having fun, change something.
I don't think numbers called/killed is the only measurement of a great Turkey hunter there's private land in states with high limits were a hunter could call up and shoot 40 gobblers in less than a decade. Take that same "expert" to hard hunted public land in a state with a 2 gobbler limit and a low population and he could spend a lifetime getting to 40. I also think the traveling hunter( hunting public land) will be a more experienced hunter that has dealt with gobblers on unfamiliar land with limited time and also dealing with the locals. And I don't think any of this applies to hunters that resort to reaping or sitting in blinds on food plots they could kill a hundred and not know how to hunt.
I agree with something in everyone's post so far. The more turkeys a person calls into the gun the more experience one has, there's no doubt about it. Alot of factors play into (The best hunters). Private, public, and hard hunted birds, unfamiliar ground the list goes on and on. As phillipshunt quoted in his last sentence, one could kill lots of turkeys sitting in a blind, hunting a foodplot year after year, and not know how to hunt them,I agree. I like to hunt as many states as possible, and much experience can be gained from that. One can learn much from (Hard to kill gobblers), but only if you stick with them, it may take awhile but the things learned are priceless. There are many great hunters on here, but no one stops learning. Lets all strive to be the best we can be, and not worry what others think.
2yr old movie stars make people famous. Come on down to the Land Between the Lakes (LBL) after the quota hunts if you want to see how you measure up... I'd take David Hale or Harold Knight at 70yrs old over any of the guys on TV today 30yrs younger than them. K&H are much better than their TV shows reflect. They just do that to pay the bills.
Quote from: falltoms on July 19, 2017, 08:31:24 PM
There are many great hunters on here, but no one stops learning. Lets all strive to be the best we can be, and not worry what others think.
Excellent statement!
Quote from: GobbleNut on July 19, 2017, 05:52:14 PM
I'm not sure what the number is,...whether in terms of gobblers called, days hunted, or places visited,...but once a serious hunter has spent enough time doing this, he should reach a level of competence in calling and tactics used that his success or failure becomes more a function of opportunity, locale, time afield, perseverance,...and sometimes most importantly, the random luck of choosing the right gobbler to hunt at the right time.
Having said all of that, there are a percentage of hunters who are just "intuitively" better at making the right decisions in terms of calling and tactics than others. I also believe that, in today's turkey hunting world,... where anybody with any initiative as a turkey hunter can become a competent caller,...those "intuitive" differences are mainly a function of tactics more so than calling.
...And having said that, sometimes those "intuitive" decisions by the hunter do not match up with the calling and tactics that any one gobbler wants to be approached with at any given time. There reaches a point where calling ability and tactical skills become less important than the gobbler's attitude that you are using them on.
.......And having said all of that, all other factors being equal, I will always place my money on the fellow that has hunted under many sets of circumstances and conditions than the fellow with equal experience who has not.
I think this is the best answer. Experience, Instincts, and Talent make the best hunter
I am just happy being the best looking male turkey hunter. :D
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Quote from: Happy on July 20, 2017, 11:39:14 AM
I am just happy being the best looking male turkey hunter. :D
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:TooFunny: Question: How does one judge the "best looking male turkey"? How many do you have to look over before you decide which one is the best looking and then start hunting it? ;D
Well to be honest I was referencing my own good looks. :D But when hunting a male turkey I tend to select ones that show signs of severe mental disorders. You know the ones that are tripping over their tongues and strutting for cattle. Doesn't hurt if they have hit their heads a few times and their reaction time is slow. I have my hands full competing with the turkeys so I will leave the competition as to who is the best turkey hunter to others. I figure I am the only nominee so far for best looking male turkey hunter so maybe I have a chance at that title. Chances to enter ended five minutes ago for those of you that wanted to throw your hat in the ring. 8)
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Quote from: Happy on July 20, 2017, 03:38:16 PM
Well to be honest I was referencing my own good looks. :D
Well, there's your first mistake,...being honest on a turkey hunting forum,...never any good can come of that!
And I certainly will not challenge you on the good looks claim,...at least between the two of us. ....I'm not sure what you look like,...but I sure as heck know what I look like....so I ain't placin' any bets! :toothy12:
:D
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Looks like I have a confession to make.......i have been hunting the SAME turkey for 38 years and I have yet to kill him.
Every time I think I have him located, either myself or someone else ends up killing him and I realize he's not the one. Maybe next year....
A good mix of replys here for this post.Without a doubt though- probably just about any member on this site- myself included-- if the big money was there to hunt in 10-12 States or more next Spring and the time off to hunt from Mid-March to May 31st would probably tag out 25-30 or more gobblers in that Spring.
One member here talked about woodsmanship. I could not agree more! I know I spent probably over 100 hours each year from February to late April every year for 5 years before I bagged my 1st gobbler. In my case, I had no mentor and had to learn on crowded gun club lands and public lands. I hike year round even today. Probably most members on this site- when they get to around 40 or so gobblers are more or less equal to turkey hunters who have taken far more birds.
I would take a number of my fellow site members and call makers over anyone I've ever seen on TV. I'm not sure I agree about taking 25 days to kill a bird that's a "even a blind squirrel finds a nut" situation to me. Turkey's simply aren't that hard to kill, they are fun to kill and the game can be challenging at times but I've never considers turkeys inherently difficult.
This thread sparked me to remember something...................
I spent about 15 years as a pro-staff member for a turkey call company. Back in the early 90's another staffer and I had a couple guys on a hunt in WV. One morning, the other staffer and his hunter ran across an elderly local hunter WAAAAAY up in the boonies. They got to chewing the fat and it came out that my buddy was a pro-staffer for the call company. The old fellow looked at him and asked "Ya'll one of them professional turkey hunters ??" My buddy said "What do consider a professional ??"
The old boy thought a second and said "I reckon the feller with the youngest legs."
I thought that was a pretty interesting answer...................
Quote from: TauntoHawk on July 21, 2017, 11:40:21 AM
I would take a number of my fellow site members and call makers over anyone I've ever seen on TV.
+1 on that !!!!
Just this week I was watching (wasting time) a show on one of the hunting channels where a pretty famous hunter was after Osceolas with a bow. Now, I am NOT a competition caller by ANYONE'S standards. But this dude............ !!! If I called like he did I sure as HECK wouldn't do it in front of other people.................let alone on a national TV show .............................
He got a turkey, though...................
With the unit of measure being purely subjective, anyone can be the winner.
Completely impossible to crown the best hunter. Number of kills means nothing. Far to many variables. Available money, available time, state, public vs private, pressure. The list goes on. If someone has the time and money to hunt a bunch of states every year then he should dang well kill way more birds than the guy who has one tag to hunt one state. Is the traveler a better hunter? Maybe. Or maybe he just has more connections or deeper pockets. I've only hunted out of state twice. I hunted for a total of 13 hours to kill those 4 birds. Does that make me great? Heck no! I couldn't even fill my tag at home in 2016. But those out of state, private land, unpressured birds made me feel like a great hunter. I'm not knocking anyone who has the time and money to hunt multiple states a year. Lord knows I would if I could! But to use shear numbers to rate a hunter is meaningless. Besides, this is hunting, not football. I can enjoy it even if people don't think I'm number 1.
I'm not a great hunter but I'm getting better every year , walking slower, sitting longer, calling less. killing more. PS I'm 73 not my choice.
Quote from: VaTuRkStOmPeR on July 19, 2017, 04:23:29 PM
The guy who kills one in 25 days has demonstrated an inability to integrate knowledge gained from previous hunts into a well formulated strategy and leverage it for success. I don't find anything respectable about that.
Whether it's on their local turf or out of state, the guys who show up and get to killing quickly rarely get a chance to know what birds are tough or "unkillable" and what birds are easy because they have developed a consistent set of skills that apply universally across all environments and habitats.
If I had to have someone yelping up a bird for me, I'll take someone who's called (not crawled or reaped) 200 birds to the gun over someone who has only called up 40. There's a big difference in how those callers think while the game is being played, and analytical skills are the single greatest differentiator in a bird over one's shoulder and a story about the one that got away.
I also dispute that the greatest turkey killers of all time are from the past. On the contrary, I would argue that names Owens, Ellis, Weddle, Budz and several others will easily endure the test of time when it comes occupying the ranks of turkey huntings greatest.
JM.02
Spot on and worth quoting.
These different replys here envoke reflecting for sure. Now, I myself have never taken 1 gobbler on private land. I understand they are somewhat easier to call up and take. Take the Spring hunter who has taken 40 gobblers on crowded gun club lands and hard pressed public lands where anything that can happen--will happen and it took that person 12 years to get to that 40 mark. That turkey hunters skills are more or less equal to someone who has taken 200-300 or many more gobblers on private lands in many different States.
Quote from: quavers59 on July 22, 2017, 10:58:19 AM
These different replys here envoke reflecting for sure. Now, I myself have never taken 1 gobbler on private land. I understand they are somewhat easier to call up and take. Take the Spring hunter who has taken 40 gobblers on crowded gun club lands and hard pressed public lands where anything that can happen--will happen and it took that person 12 years to get to that 40 mark. That turkey hunters skills are more or less equal to someone who has taken 200-300 or many more gobblers on private lands in many different States.
About the most subjective statement I have ever heard.
Quote from: quavers59 on July 22, 2017, 10:58:19 AM
These different replys here envoke reflecting for sure. Now, I myself have never taken 1 gobbler on private land. I understand they are somewhat easier to call up and take. Take the Spring hunter who has taken 40 gobblers on crowded gun club lands and hard pressed public lands where anything that can happen--will happen and it took that person 12 years to get to that 40 mark. That turkey hunters skills are more or less equal to someone who has taken 200-300 or many more gobblers on private lands in many different States.
Why even concern yourself with how you stack up against other hunters? I agree to a point that some hunters success is more a product of their money and access to quality properties. So what if they think they are the world's greatest? It doesn't have any impact on how many birds I am able to get before a gun each season.
There isn't a year goes by that I don't hunt public land somewhere....many times on places I have never been, but most of my effort in the off season is gaining access to private ground--most of which I don't have sole access to. I work hard to build relationships with the landowners and I reap the benefits of that hard work when the season rolls around, and I don't pay money to hunt any of them.
Just curious why you wouldn't be interested in doing the same thing?
Quote from: quavers59 on July 22, 2017, 10:58:19 AM
These different replys here envoke reflecting for sure. Now, I myself have never taken 1 gobbler on private land. I understand they are somewhat easier to call up and take. Take the Spring hunter who has taken 40 gobblers on crowded gun club lands and hard pressed public lands where anything that can happen--will happen and it took that person 12 years to get to that 40 mark. That turkey hunters skills are more or less equal to someone who has taken 200-300 or many more gobblers on private lands in many different States.
There seems to be an assumption among many hunters that turkeys are hunted differently on private vs public land. That just isn't the case.
Public land turkeys may behave a little more conservatively than some of their private land kin but they still gobble, they still communicate all day with low-volume clucks/purrs etc, and they can still be found in the same habitats where one would look to find turkeys on any large private piece.
I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but the way I hunt turkeys on public land in the south east is no different than the way I hunt turkeys on public land in the great west, and no different than I hunt them on public land in the north east. It's no different than I hunt my personal private leases here in Virginia.
There is no doubt that public land turkey hunting presents additional challenges. Overcoming hunter interference, recreational land users and hunting pressure is a fulfilling accomplishment but it isn't rocket science. When I look at hunt/kill ratios from this last season, I don't see any drastic difference in the time it took to kill birds on public vs private. I'll use one of my trips from last season to illustrate my point:
I took a 13 day trip(9 hunting days and 4 travel days) to hunt Texas, New Mexico, Kansas, and Missouri at the end of April through early May. No guides, no outfitters and healthy mixture of public and hard hunted private land.
Texas was a private land hunt at the end of April through a friend of a friend on farms that had been hunted all season. It's amazing the people I've met through turkey hunting and this was another one of those examples of selflessness. I hunted 5 hours the first afternoon and killed 2 birds on two different set-ups. Conditions were perfect. No wind, low 80s and clear skies.
I left there ran 6 hours to some hard hunted public land in New Mexico. It took 5 days in 35mph sustained winds with gusts to 55, snow, rain and sleet. Conditions were tough and the birds had been harassed mercilessly because they were congregated closer to roads. It certainly took longer than the 2.5 days I had forecasted to get my bird but $h1t happens and I enjoyed the satisfaction that comes with persevering through adversity.
I left there and drove 11.5 straight through for a 2am arrival at some Kansas Public (WIHA)I'd looked at on google earth. I killed a bird within 45 minutes of flydown. Hung out in Kansas talking to some local folks and gained some access to some private dirt. Put 3 Gobblers to bed that evening with 5 hens and killed the first gobbler to pitch out of the tree the tree the next morning. I'd been waiting 45 yards from the roost for 2 hours before light came up and killed that bird 2 seconds after his feet touched the ground.
Left there and ran 5 hours to Missouri. That was a 300 acre private farm I'd secured access to through a friend in Maryland. It was a selfless gesture on his part to a friend of a friend's farm that had already surrendered 6 birds through the Missouri season. I got there around 3 PM and scouted the perimeter of the farm. Grabbed some dinner and settled in about 2 hours before fly-up to roost a bird. I only heard 2 gobbles but did hear many wing beats.
They were henned up badly and it was the third to last day of the season. The next morning I overslept and could only get 100 yards from the roosted flock. It cost me a fly down kill but I was blessed with a duel against a worthy adversary with plenty of hens who only drummed once he hit the ground. He only gobbled 5x on the limb and never opened his mouth after pitching down. The hunt lasted 2 hours and the drumming was almost non-stop before I was able to maneuver close enough to the group to coax his girlfriends in to investigate the "new lady" seeking a bid in their sorority. He followed and I collected a beautiful Mo bird with 1.25" spurs.
I left Missouri at 10 am that morning to make the 16 hour run straight through to surprise my son when he awoke the next morning.
I'm not the best turkey hunter on this website and I didn't make this post get in the running for the title. I made this post to reinforce that the tactics don't change irrespective to the type of ground you're hunting. I cut my teeth on private land mountain turkeys as a young child but the tactics and skills I developed and refined as an adolescent and young adult have always put birds in the bed of the truck both near and far, on foreign public and foreign private, on ground with healthy bird numbers and sparse bird numbers.
You're thinking too hard about the wrong things if you're worried about where a turkey lives. There are far more critical things to invest intellectual effort upon when it comes to ensuring a kill is achieved.
Quote from: warrent423 on July 23, 2017, 12:39:11 PM
Quote from: quavers59 on July 22, 2017, 10:58:19 AM
These different replys here envoke reflecting for sure. Now, I myself have never taken 1 gobbler on private land. I understand they are somewhat easier to call up and take. Take the Spring hunter who has taken 40 gobblers on crowded gun club lands and hard pressed public lands where anything that can happen--will happen and it took that person 12 years to get to that 40 mark. That turkey hunters skills are more or less equal to someone who has taken 200-300 or many more gobblers on private lands in many different States.
;) These traveling, self promoting guide types, have never impressed me one bit either, no matter how many states they've been to or how many pets they've killed ;D. This is just my opinion though.
You're a complete tool. You just can't have a rational conversation with a guy like you. The point was, a turkey is a turkey and I can absolutely give a myriad of examples to prove that with perfect contrast between public vs private. You can't illustrate the point without discussing results and experiences and someone who doesn't hunt both types of ground can't really provide well-informed insight.
You seem to love to portray yourself as a tried and true public land hunter who only picks the unkillable birds to hunt. WTF that even means is beyond me. But dont worry, buddy. I'll be down there on the Cypress opening week to kill one of your "pets". May even detour by Cherokee if I can swing it into my travel schedule to kill one of your "unkillable" turkeys out of spite.
Boy, nothing to get the testosterone pumping like trying to be the "best"! Lol. Come on guys. No one cares. I've come to the conclusion that the only reason people brag to strangers on the internet is because everyone that they personally know are sick of hearing it.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on July 23, 2017, 08:49:35 PM
Boy, nothing to get the testosterone pumping like trying to be the "best"! Lol. Come on guys. No one cares. I've come to the conclusion that the only reason people brag to strangers on the internet is because everyone that they personally know are sick of hearing it.
Lol...post of the year !
Quote from: The Cohutta Strutter on July 24, 2017, 04:19:39 AM
Quote from: Farmboy27 on July 23, 2017, 08:49:35 PM
Boy, nothing to get the testosterone pumping like trying to be the "best"! Lol. Come on guys. No one cares. I've come to the conclusion that the only reason people brag to strangers on the internet is because everyone that they personally know are sick of hearing it.
Lol...post of the year !
Farmboys right: time to chill! nothing is personal on here or at least it shouldn't be. I enjoy this forum for its interaction and advice and suggestions from many of its members. I like the enthusiasm I read on here but we need to direct it toward constructiveness rather then the negativity that sometimes creeps up on us. In reality at days end the after action report should be on our own efforts and success.
We should also remember that this is very much a family oriented forum. Kids are very impressionable.
Quote from: Farmboy27 on July 23, 2017, 08:49:35 PM
Boy, nothing to get the testosterone pumping like trying to be the "best"! Lol. Come on guys. No one cares.
True ALL of that !!!!! Yep.
Over all the years I have spent in the woods............in the local restaurant.................. at the gas station...........working a booth at outdoor shows and NWTF National Conventions............... I got the biggest kick out of the "turkey counters". "I've killed (X number of) turkeys"......... Then "How many have you killed ?" Tell one of these guys "I don't know" and they don't know where to go with it. And I really DON'T know. I suppose if I sat with a pad and pencil I could come close to figuring it out. But it's really not on my list of the top 1000 things I need to do today............or ever. I'm closing in on 40 years spent hunting these critters and I know for sure I have had as many wonderful years in the spring and fall woods doing it. Good enough for me.
I always kinda figured if I talked to someone for about 3 minutes, I could figure out just about where his skill level fell on the spectrum. I really don't need told.
As for the public vs private discussion............ public land turkeys are just as frustrating OR just as dumb as private land turkeys. Only difference I ever saw between the hunts was out-smarting/out-hunting the other HUNTERS on the public ground.
I think my philosophy is to do what makes me happy as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else's ability to do what makes them happy. I don't really worry about what other folks do, as long as it doesn't hinder my enjoyment.
To not recognize that there are many ways to skin the same cat is pretty shortsighted.
I think older guys dismiss the younger generation because they don't have the experience. Younger guys dismiss the older guys because they aren't aggressive enough. Same cat, with different skinning methods.
Alot of good replys here-- a few I don't agree with. I will always believe that everyone on this site is just about equal to the next Spring turkey hunter. Like, I wrote-- right around 40 gobblers makes us all more or less equal no matter what skills you rely on the most.
Just seems like in the last 10 years or so- a feeling of competition has come into Spring turkey hunting. I don't like to see this evolving anymore. Now, I read everything I can find on turkey hunting-- have written 3 turkey hunting books as well as a hunting poem book.Time put in and the enjoyment should be the most important thing. Turkey calling championships, grand slams taken, as many gobblers taken as possible each Spring while trying to beat your own record or someone you read about in a magazine.. Public lands too, I see a competition that was not there 10 or more years ago. 2 Spring hunters working the same gobbler and one man refusing to give ground and find another bird. Spring turkey hunters sprinting on in on your gobbling tom that you are working with very soft clucks while you watch him do it. Sometimes these guys are in their 30s and 40s. There are other examples as well. Just enjoy yourselves out there each Spring and take your time and above all be safe-- past a certain point- we are all more or less equal.
I read this thread for the humor and I was not disappointed. I come on here to learn from folks. I am not the best turkey hunter on the planet, but have eaten quite a few turkeys that thought I was deadly! I am probably a better turkey hunter than most of the guys I know on a saltwater fishing site I frequent, probably better at catching redfish than most on this site, probably a better turkey hunter than many on the duck hunting site I am a director for, and there are some better than me in all at every site. I don't really care. I do it for me and for the joy it brings me in God's creation. When I get to the point, like I did in golf when I was young, where I got pretty good, but good enough where it stopped being fun because it became all about perfection on every swing, I will give any of these hobbies up. I make a pretty sporty loving doing a job that I am good at and I love doing. All the rest is for fun. I compete against the ducks in Canada and Fl and MS, I compete against the turkeys in North Florida, I compete against the redfish in North Florida-I do not compete against other hunters or fisherman. My pee pee is big enough to keep me and my wife happy and I don't care about the size of your'un, thank you very much, so put that nasty thang away. :toothy9: :thanks:
I like to Turkey Hunt...........The End! :goofball: :funnyturkey: :goofball:
Public or private, I'm the world's best turkey hunter in the spring woods. The next day, I'm the world's worst. Go figure.
Quote from: quavers59 on July 24, 2017, 07:19:50 PM
Alot of good replys here-- a few I don't agree with. I will always believe that everyone on this site is just about equal to the next Spring turkey hunter. Like, I wrote-- right around 40 gobblers makes us all more or less equal no matter what skills you rely on the most.
Just seems like in the last 10 years or so- a feeling of competition has come into Spring turkey hunting. I don't like to see this evolving anymore. Now, I read everything I can find on turkey hunting-- have written 3 turkey hunting books as well as a hunting poem book.Time put in and the enjoyment should be the most important thing. Turkey calling championships, grand slams taken, as many gobblers taken as possible each Spring while trying to beat your own record or someone you read about in a magazine.. Public lands too, I see a competition that was not there 10 or more years ago. 2 Spring hunters working the same gobbler and one man refusing to give ground and find another bird. Spring turkey hunters sprinting on in on your gobbling tom that you are working with very soft clucks while you watch him do it. Sometimes these guys are in their 30s and 40s. There are other examples as well. Just enjoy yourselves out there each Spring and take your time and above all be safe-- past a certain point- we are all more or less equal.
There were guys sprinting to birds around here on public ground 35 yrs ago. Hell birds gobbling coming to the call and boom at 75 -100yds from you 3 different times before noon. Just like this fanning fad is something new. It's been used since the 80's it's nothing new.
Every turkey hunter I ever knew defined success a little differently. I know one fella who travels a lot and a couple years ago killed 18 gobblers (that's right 18) over a five week period. In the end he complained because he had a total of 20 permits and failed to fill two of them. Another turkey hunter I am privlaged to know never hunted more than 15 miles from home. He hunted hard for 2 1\2 weeks with several close calls and finally killed a hard charging 2 year old late in the season with his hand made Osage longbow. The second hunter was much more satisfied and happy with his one lone two year old than the guy who shot 18 but failed to " limit out". Success is all about perspective and personal satisfaction.
I rarely watch hunting shows any more, regardless of the game they are after. The vast majority of the guys on those shows have the money, time, opportunity and most importantly the access to game rich lands to hunt on. These shows have absolutely NOTHING to do with the experiences of the average hunter, which is most of us. Time + money + opportunity + game rich lands = gaudy numbers of gobblers harvested. PERIOD!! I've said for many years now that I'd love to see some of these "experts" come down to Dixie for a late season hunt on heavily pressured public land. Their success rates would plummet. I refuse to support those guys.
That is also the same reason I support all legal methods of hunting. Some people don't have the same opportunities as others, and I personally have several friends who can only get out in the woods 2 or 3 times a season, always on heavily pressured public land. I WoUlD NeVeR Be So PoMpOuS As To JuDgE, CrItIcIzE Or BeLiTtLe SoMeOnE FoR NoT EmPlOyInG ThE SaMe TaCtIcS As I ChOsE To UsE. :z-twocents:
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on August 23, 2017, 05:58:35 PM
I WoUlD NeVeR Be So PoMpOuS As To JuDgE, CrItIcIzE Or BeLiTtLe SoMeOnE FoR NoT EmPlOyInG ThE SaMe TaCtIcS As I ChOsE To UsE. :z-twocents:
;D :TooFunny: I love the subtle reference,...but only those of us that have been around these forums for a while would get the point. ...Good one, though!
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Quote from: RutnNStrutn on August 23, 2017, 05:58:35 PM
I rarely watch hunting shows any more, regardless of the game they are after. The vast majority of the guys on those shows have the money, time, opportunity and most importantly the access to game rich lands to hunt on. These shows have absolutely NOTHING to do with the experiences of the average hunter, which is most of us. Time + money + opportunity + game rich lands = gaudy numbers of gobblers harvested. PERIOD!! I've said for many years now that I'd love to see some of these "experts" come down to Dixie for a late season hunt on heavily pressured public land. Their success rates would plummet. I refuse to support those guys.
That is also the same reason I support all legal methods of hunting. Some people don't have the same opportunities as others, and I personally have several friends who can only get out in the woods 2 or 3 times a season, always on heavily pressured public land. I WoUlD NeVeR Be So PoMpOuS As To JuDgE, CrItIcIzE Or BeLiTtLe SoMeOnE FoR NoT EmPlOyInG ThE SaMe TaCtIcS As I ChOsE To UsE. :z-twocents:
But how can you be my turkey hunting hero if you don't judge others?!?! :drool:
Quote from: GSLAM95 on August 02, 2017, 10:58:00 PM
I like to Turkey Hunt...........The End! :goofball: :funnyturkey: :goofball:
Well said. :z-guntootsmiley:
I'm God's gift to turkey hunting :angel9:
He put me here to make all the rest of the other turkey hunters look great! :fud:
Quote from: grayfox on August 26, 2017, 12:02:51 AM
I'm God's gift to turkey hunting :angel9:
He put me here to make all the rest of the other turkey hunters look great! :fud:
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: ...In that case, he must have made two of us!
:happy0064: :z-winnersmiley:
Quote from: GSLAM95 on August 02, 2017, 10:58:00 PM
I like to Turkey Hunt...........The End! :goofball: :funnyturkey: :goofball:
Quote from: g8rvet on July 29, 2017, 12:58:47 PMMy pee pee is big enough to keep me and my wife happy and I don't care about the size of your'un, thank you very much, so put that nasty thang away. :toothy9: :thanks:
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny:
Well, well, well....I have not even looked at the sight for a while and was bored today so decided to browse. Man a pissing match is almost as much fun a turkey hunt....ahhhh (thinking hard) no not really!
I love to hunt turkeys as much as Mongo like candy! I have grown old chasing a stupid bird and when I was younger acted stupid doing it. I went through the phase of my tool is bigger than yours (translated for the weaker mind...I'm the greatest damn turkey hunter ever). I went through the "I've killed this many phase" and learned if your counting you haint kilt enough. Now I just want to kill the one I'm set up on.
I have known hunted with and around some of the TV personalities and can tell you some are real tools and do not make the grade. I will name one name of a real man's turkey hunter that impressed me as a person and turkey hunter...Harold Knight. Now I only met him once and watched him hunt that one time, but I think i was right to be impressed. Someone can correct me if I am wrong. I won't name the two or three I classified as pure jerks. In most cases these guys are set up on hunts. With that said some are very good hunters.
As for me, I have not killed enough, because I plan on killing more. I have killed the unkillable and those too stupid to eat and enjoyed busting the heads of both. Have I said I love to hunt turkeys? I don't sort them out I just hunt them, on private land, public land, at home and away. Did I say I love to hunt turkeys? I enjoy chewing the fat with other turkey hunters, but have a low tolerance for fools and braggarts. I can usually figure out a person's skill level in a short conversation.
I have been around the forums and I know who I would not want showing up on my last gobbling bird from these forums, unless I could tag along and watch "the nut" kill my favorite bird.
I will close my post by saying I am a horrible turkey hunter and everyone's birds are safe around me. So if you want some free entertainment I'm available to hunt your favorite woods....really your gobblers are safe :turkey2:
:OGani:
Quote from: eggshell on September 12, 2017, 04:46:21 PM
Well, well, well....I have not even looked at the sight for a while and was bored today so decided to browse. Man a pissing match is almost as much fun a turkey hunt....ahhhh (thinking hard) no not really!
I love to hunt turkeys as much as Mongo like candy! I have grown old chasing a stupid bird and when I was younger acted stupid doing it. I went through the phase of my tool is bigger than yours (translated for the weaker mind...I'm the greatest damn turkey hunter ever). I went through the "I've killed this many phase" and learned if your counting you haint kilt enough. Now I just want to kill the one I'm set up on.
I have known hunted with and around some of the TV personalities and can tell you some are real tools and do not make the grade. I will name one name of a real man's turkey hunter that impressed me as a person and turkey hunter...Harold Knight. Now I only met him once and watched him hunt that one time, but I think i was right to be impressed. Someone can correct me if I am wrong. I won't name the two or three I classified as pure jerks. In most cases these guys are set up on hunts. With that said some are very good hunters.
As for me, I have not killed enough, because I plan on killing more. I have killed the unkillable and those too stupid to eat and enjoyed busting the heads of both. Have I said I love to hunt turkeys? I don't sort them out I just hunt them, on private land, public land, at home and away. Did I say I love to hunt turkeys? I enjoy chewing the fat with other turkey hunters, but have a low tolerance for fools and braggarts. I can usually figure out a person's skill level in a short conversation.
I have been around the forums and I know who I would not want showing up on my last gobbling bird from these forums, unless I could tag along and watch "the nut" kill my favorite bird.
I will close my post by saying I am a horrible turkey hunter and everyone's birds are safe around me. So if you want some free entertainment I'm available to hunt your favorite woods....really your gobblers are safe :turkey2:
AND, right there is a man that gets it! Well said sir, well said.
Why thank you sir, I appreciate the comment.
:jackson:
The hunter who doesn't tell you how good they are usually is.
Just like their hunting spots. "Haven't heard a gobble all morning"
and "I don't kill any birds"
... LOL
MK M GOBL
Quote from: MK M GOBL on September 26, 2017, 09:55:01 PM
The hunter who doesn't tell you how good they are usually is.
Just like their hunting spots. "Haven't heard a gobble all morning"
and "I don't kill any birds"
... LOL
MK M GOBL
Not true! Some of us don't have anything to brag about and keep to ourselves. It's the rare occasion I hear a gobble and when I do its on someone else's land. I really thought I seen a true Trophy Turkey in Kansas. Turned out to be one of them big African birds. Glad I realized my mistake before pulling the trigger. Reason I hang around on this forum is to hear how others do it. No shortage of real turkey hunters here. LOL
Quote from: eggshell on September 12, 2017, 04:46:21 PMI will name one name of a real man's turkey hunter that impressed me as a person and turkey hunter...Harold Knight. Now I only met him once and watched him hunt that one time, but I think i was right to be impressed. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.
Or someone can concur.............
I have never hunted with Harold. His turkey hunting skills do not need to be proven to anyone. I did have the immense pleasure of having a nice visit with him and David one time. I would welcome either or both of them to hunt my land ANY TIME. Two nicer, more grounded fellers you'll never meet............
Yep.
P.S. Over the years I have had occasion to visit with almost everyone you've seen hunting turkeys on TV.
There are a whole lot of good folk in the bunch. There are also some real wads.............
Alot of good replys here. A good way to look at this is to see that once a Spring Turkey Hunter has 20 plus years under his belt-- that hunter is more or less equal in terms of knowledge and skills. All of us here employ different levels of skills when it comes to calling and woodsmanship. It all equals out-- we are all more or less equal once we reach around 20 years. Numbers really don't mean much either. Enjoy yourselves out there.
Quavers59, I agree number of kills is a poor litmus test. twenty years is a good number to use as a measure of a seasoned turkey hunter, if you haven't developed advanced skills by then it's unlikely your going to.
It seems this post will never die. In fact I have been thinking about it a lot since it keeps popping up. Twenty years to become a seasoned turkey hunter? Incredible! This may be true about a couch potato! Someone that is more interested in sports such as football or playing video games is going to have limited time in the field. How much are they going to learn? Take someone that hunts 30 or more days a year, studies turkeys, learns to call well. I would say two or three years at most: even then he/she would be considered a slow learner. IMO,LOL.
I have seen some real young guys not even twenty demonstrate super turkey hunting skills. Some about 25 years old that have excellent skills. Guess they started at about 5 years of age.
In all seriousness with the abundance of videos, books magazines and forums like this it does not take long to develop the necessary skills. It just takes dedication and time in the field. I take deer hunting, and predator hunting just as serious as Turkey hunting and put in just as much time. In fact I worked nights for over 30 years just so I could hunt everyday. (Good way to lose weight too). You just simply cannot take a general formula and apply it to everyone. How discouraging is that to a new hunter? Well that's my two cents. You may not hear too much out of me as deer season ( Archery) starts Saturday. I've also patterned a gang of turkeys so needless to say I have the pot ready. Good luck to everyone and be safe.
mtns2hunt, I apologize for posting to the thread and bringing it back to attention. I by no means meant a person had to hunt 20 years to reach a certain level of expertise. It is a matter of time in the field. all I was agreeing with is if a person has 20 years under their belt it is fair to assume they have mastered the skill set at an advanced level, they probably done it sooner. Across the board considering all turkey hunters, I would guess there are far more who spend 10 or less days afield than there are 30 days out. When you average across all hunters it moves the average time to develop skills up. I ran a turkey check station for 30 years as a supervisor for DNR and saw and talked to thousands of turkey hunters. I can tell you over that time I would guess only about 25% of the hunters I saw had advanced hunting skills, across all ages and time hunting. So there is truly no magic number but there are averages you can make general assumptions from.
I used to train bird dogs and we always considered it took 1,000 contacts with birds to make a truly good dog. Some learned faster and some slower, but if you put 1,000 contacts on a dog he was pretty much finished. Maybe there's a number like that for turkey hunters. Again, I had no intention of offending anyone.
Let's not forget that some people work for their skills and others have God given abilities that let them advance very quickly. Abilities that allow them to see what others don't. Just my :z-twocents:
The exact formula for how many times it takes to make an experienced, most awesome, most excellent turkey hunter is X-1. Where X is the number of times I have hunted. So after I hunted the last time, I was awesome! :turkey2:
Quote from: eggshell on October 06, 2017, 11:11:47 AM
mtns2hunt, I apologize for posting to the thread and bringing it back to attention. I by no means meant a person had to hunt 20 years to reach a certain level of expertise. It is a matter of time in the field. all I was agreeing with is if a person has 20 years under their belt it is fair to assume they have mastered the skill set at an advanced level, they probably done it sooner. Across the board considering all turkey hunters, I would guess there are far more who spend 10 or less days afield than there are 30 days out. When you average across all hunters it moves the average time to develop skills up. I ran a turkey check station for 30 years as a supervisor for DNR and saw and talked to thousands of turkey hunters. I can tell you over that time I would guess only about 25% of the hunters I saw had advanced hunting skills, across all ages and time hunting. So there is truly no magic number but there are averages you can make general assumptions from.
I used to train bird dogs and we always considered it took 1,000 contacts with birds to make a truly good dog. Some learned faster and some slower, but if you put 1,000 contacts on a dog he was pretty much finished. Maybe there's a number like that for turkey hunters. Again, I had no intention of offending anyone.
If you read Malcolm Gladwells "Outliers" he talks about the 10,000 hour rule. To be world class at something you need to practice deliberately for 10,000 hours. Now this is a general number, but the idea of it fits here. How much do you learn in the off season? How much time do you spend getting quality practice on mouth calls? Learning to read maps? Consuming every bit of information you can about the sport?
Compton, I have not read that but I think it is a valid application. I hired and trained a lot of employees in my life. If an employee proved to be reliable conscientious and honest I would put them on my 5 year plan. One to two years to learn a job, in three years be proficient and on their own and in five years have it close to mastered and ready to promote. Some made it and some didn't, those who were willing to take on more and had a hunger to learn were ready in five years. I don't know why it wouldn't apply to turkey hunting. However,since turkey hunting is for a short period and done part time for most, a longer time line is probably in play, on average. As daddyduke said some are born with natural talent.
Way to many veritables to put a time frame on it fellas. Some people have the chance to hunt more in one year than others will have in 10-20. Some have better teachers. Some learn it all on their own. Can't put a time frame on mastering this game when there are to many ideas of what that even means. And really, when it all comes down it, do any of us ever truly master it?
I started turkey hunting in 1987. I just laugh at how little I knew when I started. It took me three years to kill my first turkey. There were very few birds in Georgia then and I just did not know what I was doing. There were no turkey mentors for me either to learn from. I started reading every book and watching every video I could find. I started making calls in 1992. I have made every mistake you can make in the woods. I have called up many turkeys I didn't deserve and did not come close on some when I thought I had done everything right.Things really started turning around for me several years ago when I decided to learn how to use more different call types besides a box call proficiently. I learned to use a pot call, tube call and mouth call. Things really moved forward when I learned to play a trumpet call. I had to learn to hunt in the afternoons because of my job. I hunted mornings on the weekends and on holidays. I retired from my teaching job three years ago and started working for myself. I have adjusted my work schedule so I can hunt mornings during the spring and have finally learned to hunt in the mornings. I can honestly say that things have finally started clicking for me and it's taken a long time to get there. I don't think you can really face enough situations in just two or three seasons unless you are able to hunt every day and very few people can do that. So I must just be a slow learner, but it's taken me long time to feel like I have become a fair to good turkey hunter. But I would not change the learning curve one bit if I could. There truly is not a day that goes by that I do not make a call, play a call, read a book or something to do with turkey hunting. Heck I even have five live turkeys in a pen to listen to every day.Turkey hunting is in season at my house 365 days a year, I just might not have a gun in my hand. It truly is a way of life for me. My son called up all of his own turkeys for himself this past season and that gave me a lot of satisfaction too. I also go hunting with a man that is eighty years old. He doesn't hear well and and can't see good either, but he still loves to go as much as ever. It's great to hunt with my son that's just beginning his career and then hunt with someone that is nearing the end. I just love to turkey hunt no matter how long it might have taken for me to learn how.
Larry, I enjoyed reading your story and I know it is typical of a lot of people's start. I started in 1971 and I think there was only one other guy in our whole area that had ever turkey hunted. He had hunted in Va for years. He gave me my first turkey call, a Rhodes snuff box. I had no mentor other than him and he would not help me much, he only gave me the call because he wanted to hunt our land. Season was three days long back then, in Ohio, and you could only hunt until noon. So you did not get much chance to learn. Typically if you found one gobbling bird you spent your whole season on him. I remember hearing a guy say he heard six gobblers one morning and I called him a liar. I was horrible on that box call, but had never heard a real hen and didn't for probably 2-3 years. About the mid 70s I made acquaintance with a man named Lew McClure, he had won a national turkey calling contest and made these things he called diaphragm calls. I bought one and learned to use it. By today's standards it was crap, but nobody had them but me in my area. At the time I worked for one of the country's largest hunting dog and hunting supply houses and I became a dealer for his calls. I suddenly made more contacts with people who really knew turkey hunting. That launched my skill levels a lot when I could get tips from people like Ben Rogers Lee. So learning is exponential to opportunity and access. Today's hunters have equipment and resources 1,000 fold from what I had and thus can build their skills much faster. Also, birds are abundant now and you can experience more in one day than you could get in two seasons when I started. I am convinced repetition is one of the best teachers and that is a matter of opportunity.
Wow- this post is still going. I enjoy reading all the good replys. The following 2 Spring Hunters are equal in knowledge and numbers mean nothing. The 1st Spring turkey hunter has only hunted on PRIVATE lands and has taken in excess of 200 gobblers in 25 years in different States. The 2nd Spring Hunter has taken 50 gobblers in 25 years on PUBLIC lands in 1 State. Both have been out a good 25 days for each of those 25 years or over 600 times. Yup- both are equal in terms of knowledge and skills displayed.
I hear you can't yelp more than 2x and you can only purr at them. Don't ever cutt at a public land bird and don't you dare fly down cackle, either.
You better not try getting any closer than 100 yards because they stole some new thermal and radar technology from the Chinese and they know the difference between a person breathing and a whippoorwill farting.
Any newbies reading this thread are probably intimidated as hell to even step foot on public land after hearing their best prospects for success would be to kill only 50 turkeys in 25 years of hunting public land.
Thank God turkey season is less than 5 months away. I'll make sure to keep this thread bookmarked for an occasional laugh as I mosey my way to public land in a half a dozen or more states this spring. I'll make sure I snub my nose at the private land birds I kill in a half dozen states, as well. Might have to throw a public and turkey and a private land turkey in the truck bed and dissect em both to learn about all the "differences" some allege them to have .
Goodluck this spring boys. We're all just doing our best.
Ps: I'd recommend that some of y'all spend less time worrying about where a turkey roosts at night and worry more about how you're going to be close enough to kill him at flydown the next morning. Just some .02 that might be worth the price you paid for it.
Chances are if a person tells you how good he is he's got a lot to learn.
I've chased these birds spring and fall for over 50 years. Over a 1000 days total.
I still learn every time I'm in the woods. the myth of the best turkey hunter is just that a myth
unless you're talking about Doc Wedell or Cove. :gobble:
Have fun and be safe.
Regards
Turk
I can't tell if this thread is more about worrying about others or claiming that somehow one turkey is worth more than another based on where he lives.
I went out to my garage this morning to separate all my private and public land beards with the hopes of placing my public beards up on a pedestal. Didn't get very far in that endeavor.
A dedicated hunter is going to use all of his resources available. Someone who intentionally only hunts public land is failing to utilize all of the resources available.
Of course money and opportunity is a factor, but sacrifices can be made if it truly is a priority.
I suspect the purpose of this thread was with pot stirring in mind with the public/private debate center stage by someone with an inferiority complex. :z-twocents:
My suggestion would be to relax, don't worry about others, and treat every bird like a trophy.
Sps20 has one of the best replys here for sure. I too have enjoyed thousands of trips to the Fall and Spring Turkey woods. This is what it is about-- not numbers.
Vaturkstompep--don't agree with your post- but it is all good. Don't wait for the Spring- hit the Turkey woods this Fall. My opener is Oct 21st here in New York and a week later in New Jersey. I hope to bag a turkey in both States on tough public lands where Murphys Law rules-- whatever can go wrong --will go wrong. I wrote about that in one of my turkey books. Sps20- wrote it best--The myth of the best turkey hunter is just that- a myth. Enjoy yourselves out there.
I have to say I have enjoyed the conversations and debate. It keeps turkey season alive when you can't hunt them. I assure you I have had no agenda or pot to stir in my posting, I just like to talk turkey. Some post I agree with and some I don't and some points have been made that made me reconsider some of my comments.I hold no adverse feelings toward anyone or any grudges. To me it's all in good conversation.
I too will be in the fall woods in both Ohio (opens October 14th) and Ky (October 28th) and hope to fill three fall tags. I have learned more hunting fall birds than spring I believe.
I hope I have not come across as crass or all-knowing, but I do like sharing what I feel I have learned.
I do not want to offend anyone or cause ill feelings, but I do believe pressure makes a difference. Having worked a full career for a Wildlife agency I have had access to a lot of scientific information a lot of hunters don't get to read. Much of that data supports the idea that populations are more impacted on public lands. Below is an abstract and a link to some interesting reading on the topic.
Abstract
Wildlife managers on public hunting areas are accountable for hunter success rates, annual harvest, and wildlife population size. Understanding the effect of changes in numbers of wild turkey gobblers (Meleagris gallopavo) on harvest characteristics is needed. Population size and harvest characteristics were studied for 9 years on a 14,140-ha public hunting area in central Mississippi. Male wild turkey population size averaged 82, hunter effort averaged 455 hunter-days per season, and an average of 35 male turkeys was harvested per season. Hunter success rates averaged 7.7%, 2.1%, and 5.6% for all males, subadults (jakes), and adults (gobblers), respectively. For male turkeys released in the winter capture period (7 Jan-4 Mar) and subsequently harvested that spring (15 Mar-1 May), harvest rates averaged 22.1%, 15.0%, and 35.4% for all males, jakes, and gobblers, respectively, from 1984 to 1992. Hunter effort was not correlated with male harvests (P = 0.198). Population size was correlated with hunter success rate (P = 0.053) and number harvested (P = 0.072). The population declined during the study and it became increasingly difficult for a hunter to be successful, and, in turn, hunter effort eventually decreased.
Relationships of Gobbler Population Size to Harvest Characteristics on a Public Hunting Area in Mississippi. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268264467_Relationships_of_Gobbler_Population_Size_to_Harvest_Characteristics_on_a_Public_Hunting_Area_in_Mississippi [accessed Oct 08 2017].
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268264467_Relationships_of_Gobbler_Population_Size_to_Harvest_Characteristics_on_a_Public_Hunting_Area_in_Mississippi
Quote from: eggshell on October 06, 2017, 11:11:47 AM
mtns2hunt, I apologize for posting to the thread and bringing it back to attention. I by no means meant a person had to hunt 20 years to reach a certain level of expertise. It is a matter of time in the field. all I was agreeing with is if a person has 20 years under their belt it is fair to assume they have mastered the skill set at an advanced level, they probably done it sooner. Across the board considering all turkey hunters, I would guess there are far more who spend 10 or less days afield than there are 30 days out. When you average across all hunters it moves the average time to develop skills up. I ran a turkey check station for 30 years as a supervisor for DNR and saw and talked to thousands of turkey hunters. I can tell you over that time I would guess only about 25% of the hunters I saw had advanced hunting skills, across all ages and time hunting. So there is truly no magic number but there are averages you can make general assumptions from.
I used to train bird dogs and we always considered it took 1,000 contacts with birds to make a truly good dog. Some learned faster and some slower, but if you put 1,000 contacts on a dog he was pretty much finished. Maybe there's a number like that for turkey hunters. Again, I had no intention of offending anyone.
Absolutely no reason to apologize. I value everyone's opinion even though I may not agree with them. I just cannot always ignore the urge to challenge some of the thinking I see on this forum. Have a safe and wonderful hunting season.
Eggshell is correct . Pressure does make a huge difference. Public land turkeys are tougher period-end of story. It took me 5 full Springs and Fall Seasons to finally bag my 1st wild turkey. Really- that is 10 Seasons right there. About 10 years ago- I talked to a young Spring turkey hunter whose Father owned many hundreds of acres. He told me that he does not own a caller and does not need one. He just sits up on a knoll and the gobblers amble right by below him on cue. Of course- he did not have to worry about mountain bikers streaking past or another turkey hunter moving in on your gobbler. I once had a gobbler responding and coming in when 2 early morning vocal joggers came running by 100 yards away on a access road on State land. Hunt over. The experience is the most important thing--the numbers will come along with the knowledge that puts you on a equal footing with your peers
I'm pretty sure mountain bikers and loud hikers would end any hunt on private as well. No doubt, public land presents challenges not faced by private land scenarios, but the variables you are describing involve differences in human behavior on the property and not the turkey.
What VaTuRk is arguing is that there is no inherent difference between the two. They all exhibit the same turkey behavior and are killable.
And for the record, I have hunted public land birds out west, the Midwest, but also deep South states of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama since 1980.
For sure, some of those areas are tough, but I employ the same basic tactics on both public and private wherever.
Still curious....., why don't you try to obtain some private access?
I posted a link to some studies on hunting pressure if anyone wants to search through them. There was a study done in a southern state that looked at turkey behavior associated with hunting pressure. Birds do modify behavior from pressure, be it hunting or recreational. They in essence move away from it and migrate to land that has less human interaction. So many public areas loose birds. The abstract I posted states in it's last sentence....populations decreased and it became more difficult for hunters to harvest gobblers so hunting pressure declined. studies also found birds are less vocal and and flee sooner. So I would respectfully disagree that they act the same. I too have traveled the country and hunted public and private. I have hunted with outfitters that protect their land and manage pressure/kills. The easiest kills I have ever seen was on these outfitter hunts. Heck I watched a guy walk right up on a bird in Florida once. If it does not matter then why are outfitters so picky about managing the hunting pressure on their lands.....it's because the bread on their table depends on clients killing birds. Now I also agree birds are very killable on public land and I use many of the same tactics, but on average I have to tone down the calling and not crowd birds. I think one thing that has not been mentioned is that not all public lands are the same and some private land is worse. They key being pressure not who owns the land. I have hunted large blocks of national forest that sees only light to moderate pressure that has great turkey hunting and I know a few private farms that I would not go near because they get pounded. A good example is I have birds on my farm and for the last two months a flock of hens and poults have been feeding in the fields around my house. They have gotten so used to us being out in the yard we can literally walk up within gun range of them. However, if I was to shoot one of them I bet money they would be visible a lot less and spook soon as they saw a person. I have been up in my woods and these same birds will run from you if you get within a hundred yards of them....why?
P.S. I will not hunt these birds close to their safe zone. If I want to hunt them it will be in the woods way away from the house. I want to hunt, not just shoot turkeys.
PuBlic or pRiVate maKes no diFferNce to mE. I kiLl birds wheNevEr and whEreevEr I gO. I aM thE BesT huNteR ouT thEre. TurKeyS bE waRned. If yOu meEt mE, yoU wilL dIe.
I agree that private and public land birds are no different. They look the same, sound the same, have the same needs, and the same life cycle. Private vs public makes zero difference. But pressured vs unpressured makes a world of difference. Anyone saying that turkeys on hard hunted ground don't react and become harder to hunt are basically saying that turkeys are stupid. After all, almost all animals will react to increased threats in a way to survive. I have nothing against anyone who hunts tightly managed property. I myself have hunted twice on such ground. Both out of state. And both times the birds were pushovers. Not saying I didn't get lucky or that it's always like that, but it sure was easier to hunt a bird that you could work as you please. No worries about someone else moving in on you, no worries about moving on the bird and messing someone else up.
Quote from: g8rvet on October 10, 2017, 02:19:04 PM
PuBlic or pRiVate maKes no diFferNce to mE. I kiLl birds wheNevEr and whEreevEr I gO. I aM thE BesT huNteR ouT thEre. TurKeyS bE waRned. If yOu meEt mE, yoU wilL dIe.
:TooFunny: :TooFunny: :TooFunny: Another subtle reference to a certain somebody that many of us have crossed paths with on these forums. I wonder what is better,...thinking you are the best turkey hunter on the planet,...or having everybody else think you are a total diPsh*T?... ;D :toothy9:
Afternoon HooksFan--- I tried plenty of times to gain private land access including writing letters and dropping hints to a new found turkey hunting friend. It is all good though- I love public land and all the challenges presented there. It could be the area in which I live-- don't know- I only live 52 miles from NYC and there is plenty of anti-hunting sentiment in my area.
:z-winnersmiley: That quite a pot your stirring there Gobblenut
Quote from: quavers59 on October 11, 2017, 02:33:50 PM
Afternoon HooksFan--- I tried plenty of times to gain private land access including writing letters and dropping hints to a new found turkey hunting friend. It is all good though- I love public land and all the challenges presented there. It could be the area in which I live-- don't know- I only live 52 miles from NYC and there is plenty of anti-hunting sentiment in my area.
Well i can't say I can offer any helpful hints there. Doubt my Southern accent would go very far near NYC :wave:My situation is decidedly different. I live in Southwest Missouri, but I'm originally from South Louisiana. Missouri and Kansas folks generally respond well to offers of fresh Louisiana seafood and boudin.
That's hilarious- I've gotten good, in the last 10 years, but it took a lot of work, and trial and error. Like all hunting, it takes time to get good at it.
Quote from: g8rvet on October 10, 2017, 02:19:04 PM
PuBlic or pRiVate maKes no diFferNce to mE. I kiLl birds wheNevEr and whEreevEr I gO. I aM thE BesT huNteR ouT thEre. TurKeyS bE waRned. If yOu meEt mE, yoU wilL dIe.
Love it!!
This post is still going strong-surprised. There was a time when I thought I would never take a single gobbler! The very last week of May in my 5th Spring Turkey Season is when I finally scored. I might hold the record here for the longest time hunting before finally bagging a Spring tom.
LOL You shore got me beat. A buddy of mine invited me to go with him and loaned me some shells. I went. Within 5 minutes of flydown I had a nice Tom. He told me, with what I did not realize was the best advice he ever gave me, "It ain't always like this". Took me another year to kill one on my own, but I was hooked.
I tried also for several years to help get one of my Brother in laws a turkey. Failed in the Spring---but his dog Cody flushed up a flock during a pheasant hunt. He got a good lead on the jenny and down she came. He does not hunt anymore- due to health issues and that was his only wild turkey he ever took. My other Brother in law took upwards of 60 or so turkeys- but he also can no longer hunt due to health issues. I would set him up on quite a few toms that he ended up taking the day after I knew where a certain tom would be.
Took me 11 years to kill my first one. All I learned those 11 years was that it's really hard to kill a turkey that isn't there. I got to go once as a teen with the fellow that helped me learn to call and we didn't hear a gobble. That was the extent of my help on the learning curve. I don't know much but what I have learned has been beaten into my head repeatedly.
Same thing here Happy! I had no mentor and no private land access--still don't. And up here in New York-- there were not very many veteran turkey hunters--at least where I live in Orange County which is 52 miles from NYC. Now when I started out in 1990- I did run into a turkey hunter that had alot of knowledge-- he would not answer any questions. I started late at age 30- but there just were no wild turkeys around where I lived when I started to hunt in 1974. I already started my Spring scouting last Sat with a 2 hour hike in NJ. My love of hiking probably helped alot.
I think there comes a day in every serious turkey hunters life where they "figure it out". Now that doesn't mean anythings a given. If a few gobblers don't leave you scratching your head every year, then you're not hunting much. I believe every good turkey hunter can think back to a time where a switch flipped and they started killing birds consistently. They started making fewer mistakes. They were more consistently one step ahead of a weary gobbler instead of two steps behind. Now if I was putting together an all star turkey hunting team, I'd definitely want Dave Owen's and Shane Simpson on my side. Those guys to me are in the top one percent of turkey hunters. Those are the guys who kill birds that are considered unkillable to a lot of seasoned turkey hunters.
Man I been bored lately, so glad you revived this thread so I can borrow Gobblenuts big stick and stir the S#$t some :drool:
In all honesty I think that day when you figure it out is actually when you gain enough confidence in your skill that you become more aggressive in your tactics and calling, your not as afraid of screwing up. when I think of my early days I always kept it close to the vest, my philosophy was if I don't do anything I'm less likely to do the wrong thing. Then that day came when you say, "all hell with it I'm calling more or I'm going to try a move" and you learn you can do a lot more than you thought. Fear is the road to failure.
Great points. My nephew was hearing birds and not closing the deal. When talking to him, he was terrified of bumping birds. I told him if you never bump a bird, you are letting a lot of gobblers walk. Don't be scared, do what you need to do. That was about 10 birds ago and he says me telling him to lose his hear of messing up was his biggest reason for success.