All the talk about turkey hunting videos on YouTube has inspired me to watch quite a few of them from some of the favorites listed in the thread about whose are the best. One thing is clear. Most of those guys are incredible turkey callers and are obviously dedicated hunters and know what they are doing in terms of finding birds and calling to them.
The one thing I have noticed in a number of them is when there are two hunters working a bird in the distance, one of them will move forward toward the gobbler, call to him, and then move away from the bird back to where the shooter is and then set up there. I don't get that tactic.
When I am hunting with someone else, we often work a bird by calling to a gobbler, setting the shooter up there, and having the other guy move back away from the bird and call. That tactic often works great.
Now, I get the idea that when videoing hunts you have to consider the camera angles and such. However, I just watched one video where the caller (not the shooter) moved forward towards the gobbler, called, and then moved back to the shooters position about fifty yards back. Well, the gobbler came to where the caller had called from looking for the hen,...and the shooter was out of range! Duhhh!
If somebody can explain the logic behind that tactic,...well, I am listening....
Chad Claycomb uses it a lot and I have tried it with success. Basically the idea is to get the bird to go to a chosen spot in order to set him up for an easier kill. The way I use it is when hunting ridge tops or hogbacks as we like to call them. I get him on top with me out in front so that his last part of his journey he is on the same level with me. Keeps him from popping up where I don't want him. Does his make sense? Your manipulating him in your favor
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You could also use it in thick areas to get him in the open
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Got me on that one gobblenut. About the only videos I have watched were Dave Owen's but have seen him do it as well. Not to be critical cause Dave is a pretty decent Turkey hunter but the only time I concede ground on a Turkey is when I am gonna hit him from a different angle. In instances where I am calling for someone I will fall back if needed but the shooter doesnt give ground. My logic is if the turkey is coming in he is going to at least come to where he can see the area he heard the hen from. If he thinks the hen is 30-40 yards in front of my shooter and hangs up at 70 to survey the area I have just shot myself in the foot so to speak. Like I said I am sure he has his logic but I am not following the logic. If anything I will call and then move a shooter forward a bit if I can get away with it. Just pray you read the approach route right when you do that though.
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To me set up is the biggest part of killing a tom. Sometimes set up isn't ideal and you use this technique to manipulate the bird the best you can to make your set up better. It's not 100% but it's another tool. Most of the time I just set up and call, buy there are times I need to try and dictate how he may come in.
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Im just speculating, but I think it has as much to do with set up for filming as anything. Seems like they'll do it when a bird hasn't talked in a while and they feel certain he's not slipping in. It's just an attempt to light him back up. It's easier to do that and move back to the camera set up than move the whole set up. I suppose it can also give the impression that the hen has interest, but she's leaving because he's not came her way.
One of the downsides that I see is that a bird approaching from the top of a ridge on your own level for too far has a lot of opportunity to decide he should already see the hen (or she should see him) and he'll hang up. I think that is what happens in the set ups that you are referring to where the bird stops and comes no closer.
If it was me hunting alone, I wouldn't give up that ground in most cases. I'd back off the lip of that ridge (that last calling spot) 30ish yards and wait (I'd probably call a little....or a lot), but I'm hunting alone or at least not packing a camera.
I suspect there would be a lot of "what the heck were you thinking" questions if my every move was captured on film. I'm not sure I'd have a good excuse for a lot of it.
While I understand there might be instances where the mentioned tactic might be called for (although honestly, I can't think of one off-hand), I think that overall it is not the best,...or even a good,... tactic to use. One particular video I watched where the two guys hunting together employed it, the decision to use that tactic cost them a gobbler that very probably would have been a slam dunk if they had just put the shooter in the last place they called from.
Sometimes we outsmart ourselves by overthinking a set-up situation and instead of just using the obvious tactic that probably will work, we get clever,...and it ends up costing us a bird. It happens to everybody at some point.
For me, the old stand-by (and I would say "logical") tactic of putting the shooter up in front of the caller aways will work nine times for every once that the reverse will work. Of course, I don't know that for sure because I have never used the other tactic. But, hey, if it works for somebody else, more power to 'em.
I don't recall the caller ever staying in front of the shooter. In every case that I've seen, they back up behind the shooter again and call from there while running the camera. I may not be watching the hunts that you are referring to. I have been guilty of over thinking things. I try to hide my engineer side while hunting.
I am purely answering from a lone hunters standpoint too, not from a duo. I agree I'd move behind the Hunter before trying it, but I always keep an open mind and am willing to try new things. I also seem to find myself in an not so ideal spot often.
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I would think it is o e hunfers style if you know the distance to the bird you can get away with the movement.If a bird is 60 yards sway a d the caller moves away the bird does not always come if you move toward that bird a d call he ow has a reference point that may be safe to him now move away and he might.move to that safe point.Its all a matter of opinion based on what has worked in the past.Plenty of guys fake hen movement when calling that's just a other way to do it.
I would say the tactic you saw was for those old birds that hang up out of shooters range, these birds just move back and forth and refuse to close the distance. What you would usually do is have one hunter stay put and the other hunter move off at a distance behind the shooter. What i think they were doing is the caller is staying put and the shooter is moving and trying to get within the comfort zone of the gobbler, I think it's all about getting into the preferred zone of the gobbler. Does it always work no , i would think the caller staying in one location and the shooter making moves is less likely to be successful. Setup with 2 people sometimes can be one of the harder's of the setup , because if your not sitting together , as we all know sometimes it's pretty hard in determining just where that turkey may show up within your setup.. It's all about gobbler and his comfort zone especially a more mature old gobbler ...
When I watch Dave do it, I always thought he's "painting the picture" for the gobbler by moving around, scratching the occasional leaves, and throwing sounds in a way that's the most natural instead of calling in a fixed position with his back to a tree. I do understand how it's counter intuitive to give ground, but if the setup were right I could see it being advantageous for the turkey to be focused 15-20 yards away from you instead of the base of your tree.
It's not always counter intuitive to give ground for me I guess. Sometimes it seems natural to want to get into there safe zone.
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Quote from: Hobbes on January 25, 2020, 01:27:17 PM
I don't recall the caller ever staying in front of the shooter. In every case that I've seen, they back up behind the shooter again and call from there while running the camera. I may not be watching the hunts that you are referring to. I have been guilty of over thinking things. I try to hide my engineer side while hunting.
To clarify, in the segment I saw the hunters had a gobbler responding at a distance. The shooter remained in place and the caller moved forward about 40 yards and called to the gobbler. He then retreated and set up to film behind the shooter. There did not seem to be any apparent reason in terms of the terrain features for doing that.
The problem was that the gobbler came to the exact spot the caller had called from out in front of the shooter,...which put the gobbler at questionable range for the shooter. Had the shooter simply been at the spot the caller had called from before backing away, he would have had a chip shot. The gobbler, not seeing a hen, went into retreat mode at that point.
I was just baffled by the decision to approach the hunt the way they did. The decision-making in the entire event just seemed strange to me. I suppose my point, if there is one, is that you can be the best caller around, and the most dedicated hunter,...but you also have to make the right decisions at the right time.
Then again, it's a good thing I keep my hunt videos to myself. I would hate to see the puzzled looks people would have at some of the stuff I have done!
I've tried to video hunts. I got a lot of distant gobbling. But I'd ditch the plan of filming and prioritize killing when it came time to make a critical move. I'm glad these guys don't give up on the filming so easily. There wouldn't be much to watch if they did.
What they're probably doing is a tactic that Denny Gulvas talks about in one of his DVDs called "Pick A Spot Calling". The idea is to have the gobbler walk to a specific spot, within gun range obviously, for a clean shot. Can't say for sure that's what Dave and Chad (I can ask them) are doing but seems like the only obvious reason to me. I can't say that I have ever used it intentionally. I've always been in the frame of mind that I want them to come directly to me and as close as possible.
Quote from: simpzenith on January 25, 2020, 03:01:00 PM
What they're probably doing is a tactic that Denny Gulvas talks about in one of his DVDs called "Pick A Spot Calling". . I can't say that I have ever used it intentionally. I've always been in the frame of mind that I want them to come directly to me and as close as possible.
Yeah, me too, Shane. I just found it odd in that particular video that the spot they picked for the gobbler to come to was too far away from where they set up. If the plan is to call them to a particular spot, then it seems to me it would make sense to set up in gun range of that spot! ...Oh well, we all screw up on occasion,...some of us more than others...
Quote from: Delmar ODonnell on January 25, 2020, 02:05:43 PM
When I watch Dave do it, I always thought he's "painting the picture" for the gobbler by moving around, scratching the occasional leaves, and throwing sounds in a way that's the most natural instead of calling in a fixed position with his back to a tree. I do understand how it's counter intuitive to give ground, but if the setup were right I could see it being advantageous for the turkey to be focused 15-20 yards away from you instead of the base of your tree.
Well said, exactly the point. If you ever had one hung up finally break after you moved just 25yds to another tree it makes sense.
I've used that tactic to try and pull a bird across, or up side where they cant see my position until they are in range. Especially if I think I can easily be "backdoored". Just a subtle calling ploy to try and get that tom to approach along my fall back calling path.
Like most turkey ploys it works....sometimes.
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I recently spoke to Chad Claycomb and he said that he was indeed using Gulvas' tactic of "Pick-a-spot Calling". As a matter of fact, I see that he has a new video scheduled to post to his channel this coming Sunday. In the description it reads, "Watch as he attempts to steer a gobbler into his lap using the "pick-a-spot" calling technique."
There seems to be a lot of "questioning" of other's tactics on this forum. If you don't like it, don't do it?
I think you misinterpreted the question. There is a difference between "Why the heck would you do that?" and "Can you explain to me why you did that?". Maybe it's a suttle difference. The first says "Your an idiot!". The second says, ,"I don't understand that decision, can you explain it?"
It's just something to discuss.
I must have mistaken the "Duhhh!" in the first post, usually it describes something as ignorant or stupid.
I am not understanding why it is questionable. It works from time to time, if not they would not do it. I usually work away from the bird then come back but I will have to give this a try.
I get what some are saying here . I think there are a lot of different situations and tactics that can work depending on the circumstance. I believe what some have described as more or less steering the gobbler the direction you want him to go . A lot of times your set up might not be perfect and you need the gobbler to go only one way . If that makes any sense lol
I don't see the point of it, but to each his own.
When I hunted with my dad the shooter went to the bird and caller went away from it. Always staying in sight of each other.
But to your point if you call the bird to a "spot" the spot better be in range.
Quote from: Hobbes on January 25, 2020, 02:40:32 PM
I've tried to video hunts. I got a lot of distant gobbling. But I'd ditch the plan of filming and prioritize killing when it came time to make a critical move. I'm glad these guys don't give up on the filming so easily. There wouldn't be much to watch if they did.
Same here!
I've seen that tactic in Denny's videos also. I like to move around and relocate at times when possible. Hunting pressured birds, I think it adds realism to the whole set up