After 2 detached retinas , im leaving my old Rem 870 with Banser barrel that i have hunted with for 30 yrs or more . Bought the Mossberg 500 20 Ga . Just dont want the kick any more . Thinking of going with the Indian Creek .555 and Apex #9's . Any opinions ???
Go with a Carlson 575.
.555 may be too tight. You'll love the 20, I made the switch and my 12 didn't make it out of the safe at all last season.
I get great hunting patterns out of a Carlson's, I think it's .575...it's a flush choke on a 26" barrel.
I'm setting up a 20 gauge 870 compact and thinking about a Carlson choke. I have two for my 12, one waterfowl and one turkey. Really like them both. Great chokes and a reasonable price.
Best move I ever made easier to carry,less kick,and will kill a turkey farther that you should shoot at them.
You will not be disappointed... I have 4 dedicate 12ga gobbler killers, they have not been hunted for the past 5 years. That is when I made the switch to the 20's and TSS.
Sorry to hear about the eyes, what caused the original injuries?
I will be making the switch soon. It's painful to think of all the 3"twelve gauge pattern bruises.
Quote from: Sir-diealot on December 10, 2019, 10:20:20 AM
Sorry to hear about the eyes, what caused the original injuries?
When i was 8 yrs old , i was prying with a pocket knife , it slipped out of my hand and injured my right eye . Had pretty fair sight in it until the detached retinas .
I have a Mossburg 20ga super bantam that shoots in the mid 250's in the 10" at 40 yards with 1 5/8 TSS #9's with a nice even 15" hunting pattern.
this is with the factory Mossburg extended Xfull choke.
Quote from: Rick on December 10, 2019, 11:09:00 AM
Quote from: Sir-diealot on December 10, 2019, 10:20:20 AM
Sorry to hear about the eyes, what caused the original injuries?
When i was 8 yrs old , i was prying with a pocket knife , it slipped out of my hand and injured my right eye . Had pretty fair sight in it until the detached retinas .
One of those freak accidents. I hope the 20 helps.
Thanks Sir-diealot. !!!
I left the 12s behind last year. Carrying the same Mossberg 20 shooting 1 3/8oz. TSS #9s in the 2.75" hull. This gun preferred the IC .555.
I stop carrying 12 ga. couple years ago and built 20 ga. form Youth model 870 - 21 inch barrel , added shurshot shot stock, forearm and saddle mount with scope ... i'm still shooting Federal HW 7 with mine and i have the Trulock 565 choke ..
Hunting turkeys 45 years with a 12 ga. Made the switch to a 20 ga the last 6 years. Best move I made. That with #9 Tss stomps those longbeards.
i switched to a 20ga last year. i have a SBE3 12ga with pistol grip that is a great gun but it kicks like a mule.
i went with a o/u 20ga and TSS 9s in one barrel. Makes a big difference
Another thing that might help you is i use a trijicon with a triangle at dot. one i can see it better and 2 the kick or slap is reduced on face/head because i can pull my face up from the stock and shoot
wchadw , i will look into the trijicon with a triangle at dot . Thanks for all the advice. Keep the posts coming . Nice to see what all the 20 ga shooters are shooting.
Quote from: Rick on December 10, 2019, 03:51:43 PM
wchadw , i will look into the trijicon with a triangle at dot . Thanks for all the advice. Keep the posts coming . Nice to see what all the 20 ga shooters are shooting.
any red dot type sight that is "parallax free" would work. you can move your head off the stock and the dot should stay on target
Went deer hunting this past weekend and came home with a turkey gun, "best deer hunt all season" I got a barley used "shot 4 times" 870 youth compact completely camo with a tru glo turkey choke for $250.00 . this will make my 3rd dedicated 20ga turkey gun. I have several 12ga turkey guns in the gun cabinet but I havent used them in a few years , I just love the light weight, low recoil 20ga, here in NY 9's are not legal i have a bunch of Fed,HW #7's so thats what i'm shooting outta all my 20ga guns. with a Sum Toy .562.
Sucks about your eye troubles. I'm lovin using my 20. Took my old 870 youth and put a hogue stock set on it and a Bass pro choke on it. Sure is a joy to carry around and shoot. By the way, I've been using the federal heavyweights they quit making last year. Worked the best out of that choke with the rounds I tried.
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best choice I have ever made for turkey hunting, you will love it!
Thanks , Im looking forward to patterning the gun and hunting with it ....
I made the switch 3 years ago and will never go back. I now have two 20 gauge turkey guns and one 410. I load my own 20's in tss 9's and purchase the 410's from apex. Got the 410 late in the season last year so hopefully it will see some use this spring. I have burris fastfires on all of my designated turkey guns.
Go to a gas operated 20 ga semi auto. My 390 20 ga is an exceptionally soft shooter with a limbsaver pad.
I have had four detached retinas! As a result, I try to use the smallest shotgun i can and have found that TSS and a .410 is all you need. 20 gauge seems to me big time overkill that still pounds you pretty hard, especially if not in a gas gun.
Absolutely do not blame anyone for making that switch. The only way I`d be able to keep shooting my 870 Super Mag 12 was by taming it down with a slip on Limbsaver and a custom padded T-shirt under my camo. I only shoot 3" shells also. Those accommodations make it OK. Since it`s certainly not high volume shooting, I think I`ll just stick with it. It`s a good gun, built like a tank. If I was younger, though, and had more years to hunt, I think a 20 for turkey would definitely be a project upon which I would embark!
Sorry to hear about the eyes.
So if you want to go to a 20. I suggest a semi auto, a good after market recoil pad like limbsaver. Should make it way softer.
Good luck.
Quote from: Magdump on December 13, 2019, 09:47:14 PM
I have had four detached retinas! As a result, I try to use the smallest shotgun i can and have found that TSS and a .410 is all you need. 20 gauge seems to me big time overkill that still pounds you pretty hard, especially if not in a gas gun.
Four , I feel for you Brother . Good luck
Quote from: ShootingABN! on December 14, 2019, 10:54:49 AM
Sorry to hear about the eyes.
So if you want to go to a 20. I suggest a semi auto, a good after market recoil pad like limbsaver. Should make it way softer.
Good luck.
Thanks man !!!
I have already ordered a pump , but thinking of getting a semi too . Two is better than one !!!
That's right! One is none two is one! Second the limb saver pad. Have one on my beretta 12. Man what a difference.
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I had a single shot 20 that kicked harder than any 12 or 10 that I have ever shot. lol
Be forwarned...just cause it's a smaller gauge doesn't indicate it's going to have a lighter recoil
I was unpleasantly surprised to find out my winchester 20 gauge youth shooting magblends kicked way way harder than both my versamax and sp10
Quote from: Old Gobbler on December 14, 2019, 06:08:33 PM
Be forwarned...just cause it's a smaller gauge doesn't indicate it's going to have a lighter recoil
I was unpleasantly surprised to find out my winchester 20 gauge youth shooting magblends kicked way way harder than both my versamax and sp10
Not surprised about your Remington Versamax. The Versaport gas system that it shares with the V3 is terrific.
Quote from: Old Gobbler on December 14, 2019, 06:08:33 PM
Be forwarned...just cause it's a smaller gauge doesn't indicate it's going to have a lighter recoil
I was unpleasantly surprised to find out my winchester 20 gauge youth shooting magblends kicked way way harder than both my versamax and sp10
Yep...physics is physics. If I was vulnerable to recoil, I'd want to pair a heavy gun with a light load, irrespective of bore diameter.
Quote from: Spurs Up on December 15, 2019, 05:55:52 PM
Quote from: Old Gobbler on December 14, 2019, 06:08:33 PM
Be forwarned...just cause it's a smaller gauge doesn't indicate it's going to have a lighter recoil
I was unpleasantly surprised to find out my winchester 20 gauge youth shooting magblends kicked way way harder than both my versamax and sp10
Yep...physics is physics. If I was vulnerable to recoil, I'd want to pair a heavy gun with a light load, irrespective of bore diameter.
Head to head ,, i would presume that a Mossberg 500 20 ga pump should kick less than a Remington 12 ga 870 pump !!!
Quote from: Rick on December 16, 2019, 08:18:13 AM
Quote from: Spurs Up on December 15, 2019, 05:55:52 PM
Quote from: Old Gobbler on December 14, 2019, 06:08:33 PM
Be forwarned...just cause it's a smaller gauge doesn't indicate it's going to have a lighter recoil
I was unpleasantly surprised to find out my winchester 20 gauge youth shooting magblends kicked way way harder than both my versamax and sp10
Yep...physics is physics. If I was vulnerable to recoil, I'd want to pair a heavy gun with a light load, irrespective of bore diameter.
Head to head ,, i would presume that a Mossberg 500 20 ga pump should kick less than a Remington 12 ga 870 pump !!!
I've own several guns , 10 ga, 12ga, 16ga , 20 ga and 410 and i've never had lesser gauge kick harder than one of the higher gauges ...
Has been my experience also if you compare semi's to semi's and pumps to pumps . I guess there could always be an exception ...
I had a Mossberg 12 ga pump that seem to kick twice as hard as my Remington 870 pump . Both 12 ga's ...
If you have ever shot a Mossberg 835 3 1/2 mag anything is better.
Hardest kicking shotgun I ever shot was a Remington 870 SM in black synthetic stock. I hunted with an 835 until I went to a 20 gauge and it never kicked anything like that 870 SM.
Quote from: Rick on December 16, 2019, 08:18:13 AM
Quote from: Spurs Up on December 15, 2019, 05:55:52 PM
Quote from: Old Gobbler on December 14, 2019, 06:08:33 PM
Be forwarned...just cause it's a smaller gauge doesn't indicate it's going to have a lighter recoil
I was unpleasantly surprised to find out my winchester 20 gauge youth shooting magblends kicked way way harder than both my versamax and sp10
Yep...physics is physics. If I was vulnerable to recoil, I'd want to pair a heavy gun with a light load, irrespective of bore diameter.
Head to head ,, i would presume that a Mossberg 500 20 ga pump should kick less than a Remington 12 ga 870 pump !!!
The Mossburg super Bantam 20ga (5.75lbs) with a limbsaver recoil pad shooting Federal HVWT 3" #7's has noticeably less Felt recoil than an 8plus lb. 12ga 870 (with an old factory recoil pad) shooting Fed. HVWT 3" #7"
But there is still a good bit of felt recoil in the Mossburg 20 considering the detached retina condition.
Personaly if I had retina problems I would get the softest recoiling semi .410, 28ga. or 20ga and shoot TSS.
A 1 ounce load of TSS #9's at 1100fps has fairly mild recoil(for a turkey load) and has 10" numbers that will easily get you to 40yds.
I have hunted with a 12g for many years but switched to a 20g TC Encore. Single shot that's awesome to carry. My 12g pump felt like carrying a 2X4 through the woods while the 20 gauge is like a tooth pick. 20g has hardly any kick when shooting 2 3/4 inch shells. But I was really surprised to find out how hard the 3 inch shells kick. I am loading TSS #9's and know there is an option to load 2 3/4 shells also. Performance is reputed to be the same but I am not sure about the kick. Might be a good thing to look into for someone that has eye problems.
Odd man here. I switched to the 20 for a few years. Went back to the 12. Still shooting tss and only using 2 3/4 loads.
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 20, 2019, 12:04:16 PM
Odd man here. I switched to the 20 for a few years. Went back to the 12. Still shooting tss and only using 2 3/4 loads.
You didnt like the 20 ???
Quote from: Rick on December 20, 2019, 02:15:12 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 20, 2019, 12:04:16 PM
Odd man here. I switched to the 20 for a few years. Went back to the 12. Still shooting tss and only using 2 3/4 loads.
You didnt like the 20 ???
I'm guessing he's packing more shot in that 12 ga. hull... but i could be wrong ...
You know I should add. Wasn't thinking about the original reason you wanted a 20. I think sorta like gooserbat said, your lightest recoiling shotgun will be an autoloader(weight),
Lighter load, and a fantastic buttpad. I don't have any experience with any 20 gauge autoloader or any current 12g 2-3/4" load however. I do know my Beretta 12 with a limb saver pad on it shoots softer than any other shotgun I've got. I've gone with the 20g pump lately due to how light it is to carry long distances not because Of recoil. The Hogue stock set does a great job in recoil I think for a light 20g pump.
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Quote from: Rick on December 20, 2019, 02:15:12 PM
Quote from: Gooserbat on December 20, 2019, 12:04:16 PM
Odd man here. I switched to the 20 for a few years. Went back to the 12. Still shooting tss and only using 2 3/4 loads.
You didnt like the 20 ???
I didn't like everytime I need wads or hulls that they were out of stock.
For what it's worth I am using 2 oz of shot and it's all I need or want.
I got a Stoeger M3020 20 Ga. with an indian creek choke, and Apex #9s. That gun patterns so well... it patterns better then my Mossberg 835.
Quote from: wchadw on December 10, 2019, 04:19:58 PM
Quote from: Rick on December 10, 2019, 03:51:43 PM
wchadw , i will look into the trijicon with a triangle at dot . Thanks for all the advice. Keep the posts coming . Nice to see what all the 20 ga shooters are shooting.
any red dot type sight that is "parallax free" would work. you can move your head off the stock and the dot should stay on target
I agree with Limbsaver. this is my yildiz youth 20. limbsaver made a huge difference since this is such a light gun.
:mycross:
Quote from: Mossberg90MN on December 28, 2019, 08:50:14 PM
I got a Stoeger M3020 20 Ga. with an indian creek choke, and Apex #9s. That gun patterns so well... it patterns better then my Mossberg 835.
"Better" like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have a couple of deadly 20's that will consistently (with clean barrels) put over 90% of the payload in a 20" diameter circle at 40 yards. It took a lot of tinkering to find those combinations of gun/loads/chokes. I also have an ole 835. It will shoot identical shot loads to those of my 20's, only denser and more consistently. And, of course, I can always up the payload for even "better" patterns.
I'm a big fan of the sub-gauges but reality is 12's are just generally better if you are punching paper (or think you need >2 oz of shot). Unless you just want the cachet of a sub-gauge, you might want to try a couple of other combos in your 835.
I am also switching to a 20 ga this year - Franchi Affinity with a Carlson's 575 choke. Bought some Apex and Federal #9's TSS. It is supposed to have a fantastic pattern so I cannot wait to get out and pattern it.
I will always have my 12 gage pump as a backup.
Quote from: Spurs Up on December 30, 2019, 06:49:27 PM
:mycross:Quote from: Mossberg90MN on December 28, 2019, 08:50:14 PM
I got a Stoeger M3020 20 Ga. with an indian creek choke, and Apex #9s. That gun patterns so well... it patterns better then my Mossberg 835.
"Better" like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have a couple of deadly 20's that will consistently (with clean barrels) put over 90% of the payload in a 20" diameter circle at 40 yards. It took a lot of tinkering to find those combinations of gun/loads/chokes. I also have an ole 835. It will shoot identical shot loads to those of my 20's, only denser and more consistently. And, of course, I can always up the payload for even "better" patterns.
I'm a big fan of the sub-gauges but reality is 12's are just generally better if you are punching paper (or think you need >2 oz of shot). Unless you just want the cachet of a sub-gauge, you might want to try a couple of other combos in your 835.
I suppose so... my 835 is my main gun, and it does give me great patterns. I've just noticed that certain loads my 20g stoeger will give me a very good pattern, with a nice spread vs my 835 with the same pattern. I don't know... maybe it's due to the fact that the recoil isn't as much with the 20g so it's a steadier hold and follow through.
I'm gonna hit the range soon and really compare these 2 head to head. I may end up going with my stoeger, this season, at a minimum switch off between the 2.
Quote from: wchadw on December 30, 2019, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: wchadw on December 10, 2019, 04:19:58 PM
Quote from: Rick on December 10, 2019, 03:51:43 PM
wchadw , i will look into the trijicon with a triangle at dot . Thanks for all the advice. Keep the posts coming . Nice to see what all the 20 ga shooters are shooting.
any red dot type sight that is "parallax free" would work. you can move your head off the stock and the dot should stay on target
I agree with Limbsaver. this is my yildiz youth 20. limbsaver made a huge difference since this is such a light gun.
I love Limbsavers! I have one on my Mossberg 500 12ga that I use for Trap shooting. If I've got nothing to do that day, I'll just hang out at the club and go about 4 rounds and put 100 loads through that thing. Don't even think about the recoil.
Unfortunately my limbsaver doesn't fit well over my Mossberg 835. So I'm not using it. Considering I will only be doing 1 maybe 2 shots... it's not a major deal for me. It would be nice for patterning different loads through the gun though. My shoulder can get kinda sore playing that game.
I made the leap last year. No kick, lighter gun, hard to argue on behalf of the 12 with tss in the game. Liked it so much I traded my 12ga turkey gun for a 301 .410. Gonna play with that this year
Quote from: Spurs Up on December 30, 2019, 06:49:27 PM
:mycross:Quote from: Mossberg90MN on December 28, 2019, 08:50:14 PM
I got a Stoeger M3020 20 Ga. with an indian creek choke, and Apex #9s. That gun patterns so well... it patterns better then my Mossberg 835.
"Better" like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have a couple of deadly 20's that will consistently (with clean barrels) put over 90% of the payload in a 20" diameter circle at 40 yards. It took a lot of tinkering to find those combinations of gun/loads/chokes. I also have an ole 835. It will shoot identical shot loads to those of my 20's, only denser and more consistently. And, of course, I can always up the payload for even "better" patterns.
I'm a big fan of the sub-gauges but reality is 12's are just generally better if you are punching paper (or think you need >2 oz of shot). Unless you just want the cachet of a sub-gauge, you might want to try a couple of other combos in your 835.
I retract my earlier statement. Went to the range today to really put those 2 head to head. My Mossberg 835 does in fact shoot a very nice pattern. My 20 guage Stoeger does give me a good pattern that I am happy with. But head to head the Mossberg wins. Still very happy with my Stoeger though, it will be a nice back up gun to my main set up (Mossberg) or to just change it up for the day.
I spent most of my life getting punished by the ol 835 until last year. I bought a 20 gauge 870 and 20 gauge is it for me from now on. 835 did throw a great pattern, but man dit it put a wallop on that shoulder.
I down graded this year to, went from a 12 guage 3 1/2 to a 3 inch gun 12 guage maybe a 20 in the next couple years.
My 870 Super Mag is now my backup
My 20 ga. 870 is now the main turkey cannon.
I think is a great combo. Why did you go with the Mossberg instead of getting a 870 20 gauge.
Quote from: davisd9 on December 16, 2019, 10:29:16 AM
Hardest kicking shotgun I ever shot was a Remington 870 SM in black synthetic stock. I hunted with an 835 until I went to a 20 gauge and it never kicked anything like that 870 SM.
I'm still shooting the black super mag. Not shooting 3 1/2" shells anymore.
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TSS is awesome on Turkeys. Hand loaded some #4's for coyote and got to test them out yesterday. Shot Coyote at 53 yards and it fell like a stone not even a wiggle. Was not a big Coyote: only about 20 lbs or so but TSS put it down hard. I am totally sold.
Quote from: mtns2hunt on January 20, 2020, 03:02:03 PM
TSS is awesome on Turkeys. Hand loaded some #4's for coyote and got to test them out yesterday. Shot Coyote at 53 yards and it fell like a stone not even a wiggle. Was not a big Coyote: only about 20 lbs or so but TSS put it down hard. I am totally sold.
What choke constriction did you go with for a coyote pattern?
Quote from: crow on January 20, 2020, 04:20:21 PM
Quote from: mtns2hunt on January 20, 2020, 03:02:03 PM
TSS is awesome on Turkeys. Hand loaded some #4's for coyote and got to test them out yesterday. Shot Coyote at 53 yards and it fell like a stone not even a wiggle. Was not a big Coyote: only about 20 lbs or so but TSS put it down hard. I am totally sold.
What choke constriction did you go with for a coyote pattern?
I'm using a Pattern master for the #4's
Quote from: mtns2hunt on January 21, 2020, 02:57:23 PM
Quote from: crow on January 20, 2020, 04:20:21 PM
Quote from: mtns2hunt on January 20, 2020, 03:02:03 PM
TSS is awesome on Turkeys. Hand loaded some #4's for coyote and got to test them out yesterday. Shot Coyote at 53 yards and it fell like a stone not even a wiggle. Was not a big Coyote: only about 20 lbs or so but TSS put it down hard. I am totally sold.
What choke constriction did you go with for a coyote pattern?
I'm using a Pattern master for the #4's
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