I believe I am going to give it a try this season...
Probably going to purchase a Hatsan Flash PCP air rifle in .22 or .25 caliber. I am leaning towards the .25 as it seems to be a bit more accurate (from my research), and that extra "power" makes me a bit more comfortable.
The new pellet rifles are amazingly accurate, and light-weight... Head shots are still a must, so I see it being a bit more challenging than using a scatter gun.
I hunt some ranches that are close enough to houses to cause disturbance, and I have also hunted near a horse ranch in which the shotgun really disturbs the horses... Seems like a good avenue to get opportunity to hunt some new areas, leave a smaller footprint when I hunt... And maybe kill some time "plinking" on slow days hunting....
Anyone here ever hunted turkeys with a pellet rifle?
I don't know much about air rifles, Marc, so I really have no authority to be making judgement about their use in turkey hunting. I know that California (and perhaps some other states) allow their use in certain situations and/or areas where safety is an issue, but I'm not sure how many other states allow it.
Having heard about CA legalizing them several years ago, my first thought was that the margin of error in shooting a turkey with one,...that is, between killing the bird and crippling it,...was, and still is, a concern. I can only imagine the press hunters would get from having a bunch of gobblers running around in urban areas with their beaks shot off or missing an eye or the like.
Again, just my initial thought process on the practice....
Quote from: GobbleNut on February 26, 2020, 12:17:55 AM
Having heard about CA legalizing them several years ago, my first thought was that the margin of error in shooting a turkey with one,...that is, between killing the bird and crippling it,...was, and still is, a concern. I can only imagine the press hunters would get from having a bunch of gobblers running around in urban areas with their beaks shot off or missing an eye or the like.
Again, just my initial thought process on the practice....
Generally it would appear to be head-shooting only. The consensus of people I know that have used them, is that it is a clean kill or a clean miss... The only two people I have talked to that have killed with both archery and pellet rifles seem to think that there is less likelihood of crippling with a pellet rifle, than with body shooting with a bow. I think the biggest risk would be shooting at a strutting bird, missing the head and putting one accidently into the body.
Pellet rifles today are capable of putting up groups of 1/2-3/4" groups at 50 yards (which is considerably further than I would shoot).
I have a suspicion that killing a bird with a pellet rifle will be considerably more challenging than with a shotgun... I will NOT be able to snap shoot, and will have to pull a bird into a shooting lane with minimal gun movement. Good chance I will pull out the shotgun at some point for sure...
And, if I am not confident in my shooting, I might not even attempt a bird with the pellet rifle this season. One of the ranches I hunt has a ground squirrel problem, and I will probably attempt to reduce their numbers and get confident before blindly attempting to kill a turkey.
There are some videos on YouTube with pellet gun turkey hunting, but they are relatively uninformative. Shot placement, setting up (without a commercial blind), pellet choice, etc... Are all questions I will be attempting to learn. Not to mention I know nothing about scopes, except I need a thin reticle (for fine target placement).
If you only plan on head shooting, why not go with a .177 as the match grade pellet selection is far greater than the calibers you mentioned. I ask this question without ever looking into turkey hunting with air rifles. That said I'm a fan of the Hatsan. Lot of gun for the money and can keep much more expensive equipment honest.
Good luck trying the pellet rifle , i will just stick with my shotguns .. i like eating turkey myself...
Quote from: dirt road ninja on February 26, 2020, 12:27:37 PM
If you only plan on head shooting, why not go with a .177 as the match grade pellet selection is far greater than the calibers you mentioned. I ask this question without ever looking into turkey hunting with air rifles. That said I'm a fan of the Hatsan. Lot of gun for the money and can keep much more expensive equipment honest.
I'd consider the .22 caliber... But it seems that the .25 caliber is deemed a bit more accurate, better in wind, and a bit more versatile for pest control (such as skunks).
From my understanding, the .177 is a bit more limited for other hunting and pest control (such as squirrels, skunks, etc.).
I do zero rifle shooting, and have no idea what to look for in a scope though.
some air rifles have a reverse or double recoil and will tear up even good high power rifle scopes, for those models they sell special air rifle scopes.
I'm not familiar with the model air rifle your talking about,
I have a RWS and it needs the air rifle scope.
Mine is a .177 and it kills squirrels but could be better.
if I was getting one for your purposes I would go with the .25
always use enough gun ;D
I have hunted them in the fall with a flintlock rifle, I think 50 yards is being optimistic, not because of your guns power but because of the movement of your target for head/neck shots.
I would brush up on my 40yd dash in case you "crease" one, like the old days of shooting 2 3/4" lead
shells :emoticon-cartoon-012:
I have a .25 cal airforce condor ss. That thing is accurate as all get out and packs a wallop. I have body shot squirrels at 50 yards and dump them. There is no doubt that it would crush a turkey with a head shot.
A quick check on Youtube shows quite a few videos of successful air rifle turkey hunts. Just like with your shotgun, you need to have a clear understanding of the full capabilities of the gun and yourself.
FC
Not legal in my state.
No way
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The last two years squirrels have eaten all my peaches. I decided, "no more" and last year I bought a ruger Blackhawk pellet rifle with a scope in .177 caliper. It also came with very nice fiber optic open sites that work well. My first impression was how heavy it was built. It only took me maybe 10 shots and I could group inside a half dollar at 30 yards off a rest. It is 35 yards off my deck to my peach tree. I sat on my deck in my porch rocker with a shooting stick and plucked squirrels out of my peach tree. Not everyone was a clean kill, but they didn't get away. A squirrel's hide is far tougher than a gobblers head I suspect. I would say effective range on a gobbler would be 20 yards with 25 being long range. I also think the heavier 25 would have a more severe arch, but don't know for sure. The .177 is fast. I bought mine as a cheaper, quieter and safer down range way to dispatch my problem, but I was surprised how loud this thing is. I also thought the wife could use it but it's too heavy for her. I say learn your gun and go for it if it's legal. Keep your range tight and have your gun sighted properly and I bet you'll have great results.
First of all, I have no problem with the idea of allowing the harvest of turkeys (or other game) with restricted weapons,...and your doing so, Marc (or others) is fine by me.
However, my thoughts on this subject go far beyond the concept of shooting turkeys with a pellet gun,...and here's why:
It is my understanding that the reason this practice is even being considered is because the areas where it has been legalized are urban/suburban areas. That is, there are a lot of people around and allowing traditional shotguns would present a danger to the public.
Assuming my understanding of this situation is correct, then this entire idea gets considerably more complicated,...not from the standpoint of shooting turkeys with a pellet gun, but from the standpoint of public perception and the possible negative "PR" (public relations) hunters could end up getting from this.
Regardless of how accurate these guns are, human error by itself is going to result in some turkeys being crippled and getting away. Again, how many gobblers are going to be running around in front of people,....many of whom are not hunters, and quite a few who are against hunting altogether,...that have their beak shot off or an eye shot out (or something similar)?
My question is: Is it worth the risk to hunting's image to be doing this? Now, I'm all for creating hunting opportunity. But I sometimes wonder if we are not shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to hunt stuff in situations like this.
Assuming turkeys are a problem (which we all know they are becoming in some urban areas), why aren't we promoting the trapping and transplanting of those problem turkeys to more rural, public areas where they would create traditional hunting opportunities? ...Areas where the potential for conflict between hunters and non-hunters would be minimal?
In addition, how long is it going to be before an "innocent public bystander" ends up getting shot? ...And what do you think the public response to that is going to be? ...In California of all places?
In summary, I think we hunters do some really stupid stuff just to be able to hunt something when, in the long run, it is going to really impact our future...
End of sermon,...just my thoughts for what their worth....take 'em or leave 'em
I wouldn't try it in an urbam area either. I live in the boondocks and other then my renter down the hill I don't have any close neighbors and the ones I do have are Hillbillys or farmers
Quote from: eggshell on February 29, 2020, 08:19:07 AM
The last two years squirrels have eaten all my peaches. I decided, "no more" and last year I bought a ruger Blackhawk pellet rifle with a scope in .177 caliper. It also came with very nice fiber optic open sites that work well. My first impression was how heavy it was built. It only took me maybe 10 shots and I could group inside a half dollar at 30 yards off a rest. It is 35 yards off my deck to my peach tree. I sat on my deck in my porch rocker with a shooting stick and plucked squirrels out of my peach tree. Not everyone was a clean kill, but they didn't get away. A squirrel's hide is far tougher than a gobblers head I suspect. I would say effective range on a gobbler would be 20 yards with 25 being long range. I also think the heavier 25 would have a more severe arch, but don't know for sure. The .177 is fast. I bought mine as a cheaper, quieter and safer down range way to dispatch my problem, but I was surprised how loud this thing is. I also thought the wife could use it but it's too heavy for her. I say learn your gun and go for it if it's legal. Keep your range tight and have your gun sighted properly and I bet you'll have great results.
Interesting take...
As far as using an air rifle, my intention is not that it is safer, it is the noise pollution... Hunting a 500 acre ranch, there are still horses, cattle, and houses around that ranch. My pellet rifle is far more likely to carry further and injure someone than is my shotgun. The shotgun is far more likely to generate complaints.
Same reasoning at my duck club with an increasing skunk population... Late in the season the male skunks start fighting. They make a hell of a commotion, and they spray when fighting. While members in nearby cabins would understand why I fired my shotgun at 2 A.M (and have actually encouraged me to do so), it would wake everyone, and potentially negatively effect the duck hunting.
My primary personal incentive for attempting to hunt with an air rifle, is that I think it would be fun and challenging, and from what I understand quite ethical.
However, I would agree that the chances are as good or better that someone could be incidentally injured with a pellet rifle. Partly due to the projectile traveling a further distance, and partly due to hunters having less respect for, and being less careful with where that projectile is fired.
The foothills where I hunt, I would have to be awfully careless to make such a mistake though. The hilly terrain pretty much prohibits a projectile from carrying long distances....
My impression of hunting with an air rifle, is that it will be more challenging than with a shotgun, and less difficult than with a bow. There are aspects and learning to be done, and I look forward to that learning curve... I will not utilize the air gun until I feel confident that I can consistently place the pellet... I will take it out every trip and fire it, and tinker with it, even if I do not hunt with it though... Probably attempt some ground squirrel control.
Pellet guns in California are allowed mostly because of nuisance birds in residential areas...
Yes, they used to relocate, but since there is no EIR in place, this practice is pretty much illegal now...
While turkey hunters tend to treasure turkeys, the public does not always share the same opinion...
The few guys I know that do use pellets guns are crack shots...
I want to try the 20 gauge air shotgun, but the $5000 price tag is too much right now...
Marc, I should have said my thoughts on safer down range was referring to use of a 22 rifle on the squirrels, sorry for the omission. I'm not sure the pellet would carry farther than a shotgun's pellets with any force. The energy drops way off fast past 40 yards. I too wanted less sound, as we have two gun shy dogs, but it is still louder than I expected. With that said your not going to wake anyone up or spook horses.
Here is the best article I've ever read on using an airgun. It will answer a lot of your questions.
https://www.crosman.com/get-hunting/airgun-ballistics
Quote from: Marc on March 01, 2020, 01:16:14 AM
Quote from: eggshell on February 29, 2020, 08:19:07 AM
The last two years squirrels have eaten all my peaches. I decided, "no more" and last year I bought a ruger Blackhawk pellet rifle with a scope in .177 caliper. It also came with very nice fiber optic open sites that work well. My first impression was how heavy it was built. It only took me maybe 10 shots and I could group inside a half dollar at 30 yards off a rest. It is 35 yards off my deck to my peach tree. I sat on my deck in my porch rocker with a shooting stick and plucked squirrels out of my peach tree. Not everyone was a clean kill, but they didn't get away. A squirrel's hide is far tougher than a gobblers head I suspect. I would say effective range on a gobbler would be 20 yards with 25 being long range. I also think the heavier 25 would have a more severe arch, but don't know for sure. The .177 is fast. I bought mine as a cheaper, quieter and safer down range way to dispatch my problem, but I was surprised how loud this thing is. I also thought the wife could use it but it's too heavy for her. I say learn your gun and go for it if it's legal. Keep your range tight and have your gun sighted properly and I bet you'll have great results.
Interesting take...
As far as using an air rifle, my intention is not that it is safer, it is the noise pollution... Hunting a 500 acre ranch, there are still horses, cattle, and houses around that ranch. My pellet rifle is far more likely to carry further and injure someone than is my shotgun. The shotgun is far more likely to generate complaints.
Same reasoning at my duck club with an increasing skunk population... Late in the season the male skunks start fighting. They make a hell of a commotion, and they spray when fighting. While members in nearby cabins would understand why I fired my shotgun at 2 A.M (and have actually encouraged me to do so), it would wake everyone, and potentially negatively effect the duck hunting.
My primary personal incentive for attempting to hunt with an air rifle, is that I think it would be fun and challenging, and from what I understand quite ethical.
However, I would agree that the chances are as good or better that someone could be incidentally injured with a pellet rifle. Partly due to the projectile traveling a further distance, and partly due to hunters having less respect for, and being less careful with where that projectile is fired.
The foothills where I hunt, I would have to be awfully careless to make such a mistake though. The hilly terrain pretty much prohibits a projectile from carrying long distances....
My impression of hunting with an air rifle, is that it will be more challenging than with a shotgun, and less difficult than with a bow. There are aspects and learning to be done, and I look forward to that learning curve... I will not utilize the air gun until I feel confident that I can consistently place the pellet... I will take it out every trip and fire it, and tinker with it, even if I do not hunt with it though... Probably attempt some ground squirrel control.
Use a bow
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Quote from: mudhen on March 01, 2020, 02:15:58 AM
Pellet guns in California are allowed mostly because of nuisance birds in residential areas...
Yes, they used to relocate, but since there is no EIR in place, this practice is pretty much illegal now...
While turkey hunters tend to treasure turkeys, the public does not always share the same opinion...
The few guys I know that do use pellets guns are crack shots...
I want to try the 20 gauge air shotgun, but the $5000 price tag is too much right now...
Yes, it is/was my understanding that the law legalizing their use came as a result of the need to try to control turkey numbers in urban/suburban areas. I was also aware of the laws/rules in place that prohibit the relocation of those birds within CA, or areas of it, as well. However, I do believe there are places around the country that would welcome using those Rios for supplemental stockings to reinforce troubled populations. Granted, I am speculating about that, but I wonder if that is even being explored.
I am sure the hunters that use pellet rifles for hunting pretty much all believe they are crack shots. ...So do most of us that hunt with shotguns that have 300 pellets in each round,...but still end up missing or not making a clean kill.
Regardless, anybody that follows the anti-hunting sentiment in this country knows that California is ground zero for that movement. My concern is strictly about the impact that hunter-crippled turkeys running around in front of the general public is going to have,...not to mention the impact if someone gets shot. I just wonder if that potential impact is worth the risk.
My final "wondering", if you will, is why hunters feel the need to kill turkeys in places where those birds are obviously conditioned to people being around? They are not "hunting",...just killing turkeys. If someone feels compelled to do that, why not save the trouble and just go by a ready-to-eat turkey at the grocery store?
As I stated before, sometimes we hunters are just determined to shoot ourselves in the foot....
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 01, 2020, 08:24:30 AM
Quote from: mudhen on March 01, 2020, 02:15:58 AM
Pellet guns in California are allowed mostly because of nuisance birds in residential areas...
Yes, they used to relocate, but since there is no EIR in place, this practice is pretty much illegal now...
While turkey hunters tend to treasure turkeys, the public does not always share the same opinion...
The few guys I know that do use pellets guns are crack shots...
I want to try the 20 gauge air shotgun, but the $5000 price tag is too much right now...
Yes, it is/was my understanding that the law legalizing their use came as a result of the need to try to control turkey numbers in urban/suburban areas. I was also aware of the laws/rules in place that prohibit the relocation of those birds within CA, or areas of it, as well. However, I do believe there are places around the country that would welcome using those Rios for supplemental stockings to reinforce troubled populations. Granted, I am speculating about that, but I wonder if that is even being explored.
I am sure the hunters that use pellet rifles for hunting pretty much all believe they are crack shots. ...So do most of us that hunt with shotguns that have 300 pellets in each round,...but still end up missing or not making a clean kill.
Regardless, anybody that follows the anti-hunting sentiment in this country knows that California is ground zero for that movement. My concern is strictly about the impact that hunter-crippled turkeys running around in front of the general public is going to have,...not to mention the impact if someone gets shot. I just wonder if that potential impact is worth the risk.
My final "wondering", if you will, is why hunters feel the need to kill turkeys in places where those birds are obviously conditioned to people being around? They are not "hunting",...just killing turkeys. If someone feels compelled to do that, why not save the trouble and just go by a ready-to-eat turkey at the grocery store?
As I stated before, sometimes we hunters are just determined to shoot ourselves in the foot....
Not conditioned really. Naturally stupid. I've seen this first hand out west. I've also seen what hunting pressure does to them. Even Native American Warriors wouldn't hunt them. That's why I laugh at that painting with the two warriors turkey hunting. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200301/269f413eefe3fc638c3b8c46a9e43a6c.jpg)
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screwed this post up,...see below (smiley face)
QuoteRegardless, anybody that follows the anti-hunting sentiment in this country knows that California is ground zero for that movement.
:TooFunny:
California is ground zero to a lot of things and none I can think of are good. A couple years ago they threatened to succeed from the USA, man someone missed a real opportunity there! I can see it, President Nancy Pelosi and Vice president Shiff. Surely the world would beat down the doors of nirvana.
I wouldn't do it in an urban area either, but the OP is talking about real hunting ground on a ranch. I can see trying it under his circumstances. Your right it would be more prone to errors, but it all comes down to knowing you and your equipment's limitations/skill levels.
Quote from: fallhnt on March 01, 2020, 08:40:26 AM
Quote from: GobbleNut on March 01, 2020, 08:24:30 AM
My final "wondering", if you will, is why hunters feel the need to kill turkeys in places where those birds are obviously conditioned to people being around? They are not "hunting",...just killing turkeys. If someone feels compelled to do that, why not save the trouble and just go by a ready-to-eat turkey at the grocery store?
Not conditioned really. Naturally stupid. I've seen this first hand out west. I've also seen what hunting pressure does to them.
Yeah, living out west, I have seen it as well,...and what happens with some hunting pressure. It is not just a western phenomenon, though. It happens anywhere in the country where the conditions that cause it exist (just watch some of the YouTube videos). Some folks declare that turkeys aren't capable of "learning",....total BS! (but that's a different topic altogether)
Quote from: eggshell on March 01, 2020, 08:56:55 AM
I wouldn't do it in an urban area either, but the OP is talking about real hunting ground on a ranch. I can see trying it under his circumstances. Your right it would be more prone to errors, but it all comes down to knowing you and your equipment's limitations/skill levels.
Yeah, Marc's motives are a different story. If someone wants to challenge themselves under those conditions, have at it. Just be certain of your skill level and shot selection. For me personally, crippled animals weigh on my conscience a lot more than the desire to challenge myself.
if you can hit a turkey in the head at 25 30 yards then thats an accomplishment . Its not like they stay still .
I see nothing wrong with it . I do see frustration in you're future. :drool:
Thank you all for the replies!
I am now waiting for everything I ordered to come in... Got some good advice on scopes, pellets, etc....
I have had the opportunity to shoot some air rifles at target ranges, and I have been extremely impressed with how accurate they are, and how easy they are to shoot... For me, I tend to shoot them more accurately at similarly close ranges (i.e. 20-50 yards) than I do traditional guns... Possibly due to reduced sound and/or recoil, I shoot these guns better than standard rifles....
There are several videos of guys shooting flies with these guns at 20-30 yards...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ddswd0Oquo
I know that shooting on paper will not translate to game, especially a bobbing turkey head... But turkeys usually do give you that moment where their heads come up, or they are in strutt... And it is a fairly "still" target.
As to hunting around houses, to me there is a vast difference between shooting a "porch turkey" and shooting that bird in the nearby woods. It seems to me that birds become conditioned towards areas of safety, rather than people very often...
Walk towards a bird in the garden, and they might move to the other end of the garden... Walk towards that same bird in the woods near by, and they leave with haste... They are not contending with predators in that garden (generally) whereas they are in those near by woods???
I am excited to put a new twist to turkey hunting as soon as I feel prepared and confident to do so... If/when I do hunt this way, I will post as to my success or lack thereof....
I appreciate all of the replies.
Got the pellet rifle put together, and have been able to practice in the yard (cause it is fairly quiet and safe). I am getting dime-sized groups at thirty yards, and and can consistently hit a quarter at 40 without much drop...
So, today was the opener, and I hunted with the pellet rifle. I learned some things. (I did Not hunt from a blind)
It is considerably more difficult to get a shot with a pellet rifle than with a shotgun. Not as tough as with a bow, but tougher than I thought it would be by a considerable margin.
That leafy material with netting is a horrible choice. It got caught on everything, and had one of the jakes been a tom, it would have prevented me from success.
Had a lot of jakes come in to range today... Six different groups, and tried to get the scope on them for practice. I was never able to do so... Could have killed them easily with a shotgun.
I did have some toms come in, and could not get the gun on them... I managed to call them back (after a quick, short move while calling), and was able to get a perfect shot... Things happened so fast I did not really get nervous or "shakey." But I also (somehow) dislodged the bolt, the air escaped from the side of the gun (producing a loud sound) when I shot. I then had to take part of the barrel apart to safely get the lodged pellet out... I would have easily killed a bird the first time they came in with the shotgun. The second time would have been a "gimme," had I somehow not fired the first time.
The primary difficulty is having the gun positioned in the right direction, and having your head down on the stock, and then finding the bird in the scope quickly (rifle shooting is completely new to me). I am shooting with a bipod (attached to the gun), so when a bird comes in to the right or left of where I thought it was, I have to reposition the whole setup...
The bird I did get the shot on, had his fan up coming in, and I put the scope on the fan (even though I could not see his head due to brush). When he got close, I clucked, and he put his head up, and then when behind some brush... When I could barely see the top of his head, I clucked, and his head went up, giving me the prefect shot opportunity... Which I completely destroyed.
If/when I am successful, I will likely post on the main forum... At some point, I will likely switch to the shotgun if I am not successful... There is a huge proportion of jakes to toms this season (the likes of which I have never seen).
I bet you'll do a lot better on your next trip. You have learned a lot so far and experience is a great teacher. If I tried this I may just stay with the fiber optic open sights on mine. I can shoot almost as well with them and pick up my target faster. Is your gun a break down or cartridge air?
I have to say this sounds challenging which steps up the game quiet a lot. Here we all are complaining we only getting 235 shots in the 40 yrd. and you got ONE.. I hope you make it happen.
Quote from: eggshell on March 29, 2020, 08:00:24 AM
I bet you'll do a lot better on your next trip. You have learned a lot so far and experience is a great teacher. If I tried this I may just stay with the fiber optic open sights on mine. I can shoot almost as well with them and pick up my target faster. Is your gun a break down or cartridge air?
Mine is a PCP (pre-charged pneumatic). It has a reservoir tank which is filled to 3000 lbs, and I can shoot about 20 times without pumping or refilling. It has a 10-shot magazine with a bolt-action, and shoots quiet enough, that a second shot will likely be an option (the sound of the pellet strike is louder than the sound of the gun).
I will be practicing getting those jakes in the scope for a kill... I saw a lot of jakes, and very, very few toms... Spent a lot of time chasing gobbles that turned out to be jakes.
I will say that the airgun makes me far, far more aware of which direction I should set up... I realized yesterday that there are three directions for turkey hunting... The direction you want them to come from, the direction you "think" they will come from, and the direction they do come from... All too often the first two do not coincide with option number 3....