Just saw a dam bobcat walking up the road next to my dam farm. Seeing wayyyy too many of them around now. We can't shoot or trap them. Those dam coyotes are needing a thinning out too. Looks like the blind is going back out and the rifle is coming out. I needthe practice
Ohio?
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Bobcats are about the last scourge we DON'T have..............just right here............just yet.
We have everything else (plus fishers), but we're in a tiny little, cat-free pocket for now. We've only gotten 1 trailcam pic of a bobcat in 10-12 years of running a BUNCH of cameras. And that pic was 7-8 years ago.
I believe the single greatest predator of turkeys is a bobcat. I would bet they kill more birds than a coyote by a long shot.
New Hampshire, moratorium on killing them. We are working on it
I can't believe the Conservationists think these predators are a good thing. Especially when they won't allow us to keep them in check..
I don't think one has to wonder why populations of game animals are down and also why in spring they dont hear Gobbling.Usually a good population of predators probably isn't to far off.
Quote from: tal on June 29, 2019, 09:43:18 AM
I believe the single greatest predator of turkeys is a bobcat.
Maybe where there are no fishers.......................
Not sure which is the greatest turkey predator. Within the last several years we have seen a major increase in the bobcat population and the introduction of fishers with a dramatic population deline in turkeys.
We have always had fishers and foxes and a few bobca.ts. Coyotes came in about 30ish years ago and have multiplied exponentially. All numbers are up right now. Owls and hawks too.
Plenty of turkeys where I'm at: plus a large number of coyotes. Seen my first Bobcat this past Fall. The way I see it coyotes and Bobcats provide more shooting. Did not get a shot at the cat but it's certainly on my bucket list.
While I am a huge fan of Turkey hunting I like the opportunity to hunt in off season.
I surprised about no Bobcat season. Even in IL we have a meaningless "season " on them. They increased the amount of permits but only allow ~400 to be taken.
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I believe that the egg stealers are a bigger problem and do them harm whenever possible. The numbers of coyotes is alarming around here now. They have little fear of society and they are in bigger packs than I have ever seen before. I will be thinning them out with my friends. They are out at all times now which is an indicator of their lack of fear. I needthe Target practice anyways
Killem and keep it hush hush.
The three monkeys.... Hear no, see no, speak no.
Quote from: tal on June 29, 2019, 06:36:55 PM
The three monkeys.... Hear no, see no, speak no.
I've talked to locals out west about their wolf population.
They mention the three S's...shoot, shovel, and shut up.
I have no actual data to back this up but when the bobcat sightings started here in Southern Indiana the turkey population started to drop. Small game populations were already way down. Why the DNR is so protective of the bobcat is a mystery to me. We certainly don't need them to keep turkey and small game numbers in check.
Any healthy ecosystem has predator/prey dynamics.
Bobcats and turkeys have been living together for millennia it's not all this sudden a problem.
We can tweak harvest and land management practices here and there, but overall a healthy bobcat population is indicative of a solid prey base (turkeys and other small game) which is what we all want.
Quote from: Trax on July 05, 2019, 12:58:47 PM
Any healthy ecosystem has predator/prey dynamics.
Bobcats and turkeys have been living together for millennia it's not all this sudden a problem.
We can tweak harvest and land management practices here and there, but overall a healthy bobcat population is indicative of a solid prey base (turkeys and other small game) which is what we all want.
This is the response that I can't understand. How can we think the bobcat is an indication of a healthy turkey population when turkey numbers are declining across the country, especially in Southern IN. Bobcats were never numerous here but when they started to be more common our turkey numbers took a nose dive.
Turkey populations are up and down across the board, depending on which state you go to.
And if you ask 10 different hunters why, you'll probably get 10 different answers. Everything from strutter decoys to global climate change gets blamed. But I guess locally it must be bobcats in your neck of the woods. Ok.
Across most of their range turkeys and bobcats have been living together just fine since well before Columbus hit the beach, but maybe it's different for some reason just recently.
I will just keep my mouth shut. No one wants to fix the problem in the most effective and quickest way anyways. We want all benefits and no sacrifice these days.
I get the whole more prey more predator thing. My point is there is nothing to keep the predators in check. They have to eat and they are multiplying and they prey is going down. Hence "Old lady jones cats go missing" bobcats are usually not seen in daylight hours, this one was sauntering down a busy back road hunting. We go to extremes to fix problems and create others. The predators for turkeys, not to mention egg stealers, numbers are going up, hunters included. What or who preys on bobcats? Us , that's who and they closed the season on them even trappers. Extreme decision that causes another( see above)
Serious question because I don't know, and wonder what others think. Who kills more turkeys in a year, people or Bobcats?
Per capital, bobcats. They all hunt, humans don't. But sheer numbers say people probably do
Trying to do my part. They are hell on quail too.
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I know people who paid their house off with bobcat pelts. You used to could get $300-$400 bucks for a bobcat skin 20 years ago, and $400 was a lot more money back then. I'm not sure about the southern states- probably worth less there but financially they and other predators were desirable to harvest, not just for fun but for profit as well. Those days are long gone so the predator populations are way higher than they have ever been-much different than when they were targeted by just about anyone with a gun or trap. I don't expect there will ever be a good market in the united states for wild fur so while more and more people are killing turkeys, less and less are targeting bobcats or coyotes.
The antis are working hard to ban all feline hunting here in AZ. The game dept is playing politics, trying to keep both sides happy. They put lion quotas in each unit and ceased night hunts. For now, furbearers including bobcats are still unlimited Aug thru Mar. I dont even want to get into the wolf debacle and now talk of putting grizzlies back here too.
They've already convinced several counties to ban coyote calling contests, which took place in areas where the pronghorn populations are struggling due to predation. The trapper and predator calling clubs struggle to bring in new members. With pelt prices down these clubs can barely cover operating costs. The predator hunters kept the checks and balances. As they decline, so does our quarry including turkeys.
We get bus loads of antis mostly from California who stand outside Walmarts and show cute cuddly cat photos and get residents to sign in support of their props (my mom being one of those gullible enough to sign). She didnt talk to me for a month when she learned I was predator hunting. ;D
My understanding of the predator/prey relationship is that as prey numbers rise predators respond in kind with greater numbers. If turkeys were the only prey that bobcats, coyotes, mountain lions hunt then decreasing numbers of turkeys would suppress the number of predators. The problem is most predators are hunters of opportunity so anything can be prey that they are large enough to stalk and kill. With the increased human populations moving into rural areas with domestic dogs and cats that can become prey, the predator base increased due to increase in food supply so now there is an imbalance due to the artificial food supply. A few years back a friend lived in an area that was developed just on the out skirts of town that had a number of peacocks, a mountain lion started hunting the area and the peacocks were soon gone.The predator issue is only one aspect of decreasing turkey, in my area there seem to be increasing numbers of turkey or at least I am seeing them is areas that I did not see then 5 or 6 years, but it would seem to be one aspect with impact on the population.
Camping an hour north of my home and the coyotes and bobcats are everywhere. Been hunting/ running dogs and trapping for 40 years now, never have seen so many predators during the daylight hours. Just saw 3 yotes crossing an open field next to a major road. That tells me there are a lot of them and/or they have no natural fear of being seen. I need to start trapping those fuckers again. Hunting them may help a small area but not the long term solution. Trail cameras are loaded with pics of both too. Any suggestions besides hunting and trapping them? I can't hunt or trap bobcats in my state so those options are off the table. I did see 3 groups of poults today which was a good sign. 7/9/6, not terrible numbers. Over 50% survival if they have 12ish eggs. Stay cool peeps
Quote from: NCL on July 06, 2019, 12:15:28 PM
My understanding of the predator/prey relationship is that as prey numbers rise predators respond in kind with greater numbers.
In a perfect ecosystem........yes. But there are more predators now than in my (50-ish year) memory. There is less small game now (to the point of near eradication), even in areas of prime habitat. The numbers of avian predators.......especially redtails and great horned owls..............is staggering. You KNOW something is wrong with the predator/prey ratio when you are routinely seeing redtail hawks......which are predators........scavenging...... eating roadkill in the SUMMER. Summer is when prey numbers should be at their very highest and the young prey at its very dumbest. Pickings SHOULD be easy right now.
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I like to do my part when it comes to managing predators. Most folks around here feel the same way.
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Being a avid coonhunter and trapper the majority of my life I know that overpopulated raccoons get distemper,coyotes and foxes mange and thats how nature naturally takes care of its self which in turn is a way to let prey numbers rebound.
Harvested 31 coyote, 30ish fox, a pile of coon and possums from our hunting areas last season.
More hunters need to help keep predator numbers in check. What are you doing about it?
Thump em on the nose and stomp em!
:blob10:
Quote from: Rzrbac on July 27, 2019, 02:58:36 PM
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I like to do my part when it comes to managing predators. Most folks around here feel the same way.
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Just my opinion I think our turkeys largest threat starts with nest predation, snakes, raccoons, opossum, hay harvesting, then once hatched birds of prey I feel do a fair amount of damage along with everything else. But I'd say Bobcats do far more damage than coyotes.
it is when the coyotes learn to hunt turkeys with a strategy that the flock is in trouble. They all do not develop this skill.
Terrain has some to do with thier efficiency as well.
If there were as many cats as coyotes in many areas there would be few birds.
Our local focus is to keep egg stealer numbers down first then coyotes. We cannot hunt or trap bobcats here and they are coming back way too fast. I wish we could get a real plan instead of all or nothing mentaity
Quote from: tal on June 29, 2019, 09:43:18 AM
I believe the single greatest predator of turkeys is a bobcat. I would bet they kill more birds than a coyote by a long shot.
I would agree they are the best preditor of adult birds. Coyotes aren't that great at killing birds. They may get lucky and get a hen on the nest or young bird on the ground but I've watched both species go after birds and bobcats are hand down faster and better stalkers than coyotes. Plus they can climb like a squirrel.
On the same note, I don't have any issue with either being present in my area. Though bobcats may get a few birds a year they keep rhodent numbers in check. Coyotes on the other hand are much better at killing nest raiders like coons and possums than I am so I appreciate that. Neither is bad and nature will maintain a balance one way or another.
Quote from: Kylongspur88 on August 04, 2019, 01:01:26 PM
Quote from: tal on June 29, 2019, 09:43:18 AM
I believe the single greatest predator of turkeys is a bobcat. I would bet they kill more birds than a coyote by a long shot.
I would agree they are the best preditor of adult birds. Coyotes aren't that great at killing birds. They may get lucky and get a hen on the nest or young bird on the ground but I've watched both species go after birds and bobcats are hand down faster and better stalkers than coyotes. Plus they can climb like a squirrel.
On the same note, I don't have any issue with either being present in my area. Though bobcats may get a few birds a year they keep rhodent numbers in check. Coyotes on the other hand are much better at killing nest raiders like coons and possums than I am so I appreciate that. Neither is bad and nature will maintain a balance one way or another.
Well said. I was thinking of birds after hatching, not including the nest robbers. I've seen many interactions between coyotes and turkeys and I don't believe coyotes kill many. But birds still on the ground? A coyote would wreak havoc on those. I've had bobcats come to the call! From what I've read on here I am thankful we don't have fishers yet.
Fishers are vicious creatures. Lost 23/24 fighting roosters to a fisher when I was a kid. It was a different time then. Problems got taken care of swiftly and completely back then.
Well, having trapped for several years (and stepping away due to the financial debt that the pelts can't come close to covering), I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that the largest predator to turkeys (aside from man) is nest robbers. It's been stated above but that's just the cold hard facts. There's not a predator alive that can damage a population quicker than a predator that strikes at the nest. Add in some very wet nesting seasons and it only gets worse. Do what you will with predators. I've got no care at all. I'd like to eradicate every coyote in the tri-county area but it's impossible regardless the implements used. If one truly wants to make a difference in bird population, look no further than the mirror. This is a hard topic for me to put into type because, as a younger man (and not as long as ago as I'd like to admit) I was admittedly hard on game animals. Not gonna go into great discussion over it. Seen the error in my ways. Fixed it. Tweaked my style a bit and can say that it's definitely better for me in all aspects. Heck, I won't even hunt squirrels in the same location more than a couple times. Anyone know how hard it is to eliminate rats?
Please understand I'm not saying we should stop hunting. It's needed in my opinion. But if the population is in dire straights, where does one really need to start?
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