I know the 10" forty yard shot count is the gold standard. My question is what does the 20 yard target look like, not the shot count, but spread in inches. I can miss :z-guntootsmiley:and most of my misses are close with shotgun for all game not just turkeys.
I'm not sure I want a high count 40 yard target and a softball size pattern at 20 yard. Thoughts or pictures
Welcome to OG Franklin. With todays guns, ammo and chokes we aren't shooting turkey patterns as we did 40 or 50 years ago. Turkey guns have very tight patterns today. Todays patterns, for the most part, will be the size of a baseball at 20, the size of a softball at 30 and the size of a volleyball at 40. These patterns can get a little larger with a different choke or ammo but patterning is the only way to find out what your particular gun will do. This site has TONS of patterning info. I would suggest going to your particular gun manufacture and looking at the Patterning posts. This site is a Great place to ask questions and learn from many that Love this Sport. Welcome again.
Best to shoot at 20yds and 40yds to pattern. Find the best patterns for your hunting style and shooting ability. Totally agree with some patterns being too tight at 20yds. My preference for hunting is a pattern that is about 10-12" at 20-25yds and 18"-20" at 40yds with very few gaps. I have shot some set ups that shoot the entire pattern in a 10" at 40 and they are not necessarily the best hunting patterns.
Quote from: Longshanks on May 23, 2020, 08:21:17 AM
Best to shoot at 20yds and 40yds to pattern. Find the best patterns for your hunting style and shooting ability. Totally agree with some patterns being too tight at 20yds. My preference for hunting is a pattern that is about 10-12" at 20-25yds and 18"-20" at 40yds with very few gaps. I have shot some set ups that shoot the entire pattern in a 10" at 40 and they are not necessarily the best hunting patterns.
Would like to hear more about the set-ups you describe in your last sentence. Not doubting your word, but I have shot a lot of TSS through a lot of chokes and rarely see more than 50% of the total pellets in the 10". It is tough enough to get all the pellets in the 20 - 85-90% is typical. But I agree with you that 100% in 10 would NOT be a good hunting pattern.
Quote from: Longshanks on May 23, 2020, 08:21:17 AM
Best to shoot at 20yds and 40yds to pattern. Find the best patterns for your hunting style and shooting ability. Totally agree with some patterns being too tight at 20yds. My preference for hunting is a pattern that is about 10-12" at 20-25yds and 18"-20" at 40yds with very few gaps. I have shot some set ups that shoot the entire pattern in a 10" at 40 and they are not necessarily the best hunting patterns.
You can always go with an o/u and setup a choke/load for close and different choke/load for longer. I was running tight chokes and TSS and missed a bird that was 5-7 yards. Patterned at 10 yards was like a slug
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Quote from: wchadw on May 24, 2020, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: Longshanks on May 23, 2020, 08:21:17 AM
Best to shoot at 20yds and 40yds to pattern. Find the best patterns for your hunting style and shooting ability. Totally agree with some patterns being too tight at 20yds. My preference for hunting is a pattern that is about 10-12" at 20-25yds and 18"-20" at 40yds with very few gaps. I have shot some set ups that shoot the entire pattern in a 10" at 40 and they are not necessarily the best hunting patterns.
You can always go with an o/u and setup a choke/load for close and different choke/load for longer. I was running tight chokes and TSS and missed a bird that was 5-7 yards. Patterned at 10 yards was like a slug
That's exactly what I decided which is why I shoot a Beretta O/U. One barrel set up to do 110/10 @ 40 and the other averages 347/10".
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Thanks, for the replies. If I was younger I would play around with a over and under or a double barrel. I think that would be best answer.
I think I'll play around with different loads and try to get a forgiving pattern at 20 but still a killing pattern at 40. I think it's easier to kill one at 40 yards than to kill one that sneaks from the side or behind you.
Welcome to the forum. Good luck........ :wagon:
:welcomeOG:
I have a 870 Special Purpose magnum with a 26" barrel. I tried the 3" Longbeard 5's with several chokes(.655, .660, .665) and everything was extremely tight in the 15-20 yard range....to tight for my liking. I tried a Carlson .670 non-ported and it opened up my pattern. It went from baseball/softball size to about volley ball size at 20 yards. At 40 yards it is starting to get a little sparse, but will still kill.
Quote from: BandedSpur on May 24, 2020, 07:35:42 AM
Quote from: Longshanks on May 23, 2020, 08:21:17 AM
Best to shoot at 20yds and 40yds to pattern. Find the best patterns for your hunting style and shooting ability. Totally agree with some patterns being too tight at 20yds. My preference for hunting is a pattern that is about 10-12" at 20-25yds and 18"-20" at 40yds with very few gaps. I have shot some set ups that shoot the entire pattern in a 10" at 40 and they are not necessarily the best hunting patterns.
Would like to hear more about the set-ups you describe in your last sentence. Not doubting your word, but I have shot a lot of TSS through a lot of chokes and rarely see more than 50% of the total pellets in the 10". It is tough enough to get all the pellets in the 20 - 85-90% is typical. But I agree with you that 100% in 10 would NOT be a good hunting pattern.
I wish I could get all my pattern in a 10" circle at 40 yards. That sounds awesome. Unfortunately, the best I've been able to do is about 60% of the payload into the 10".
Quote from: BandedSpur on May 25, 2020, 07:40:03 AM
Quote from: wchadw on May 24, 2020, 10:21:46 AM
Quote from: Longshanks on May 23, 2020, 08:21:17 AM
Best to shoot at 20yds and 40yds to pattern. Find the best patterns for your hunting style and shooting ability. Totally agree with some patterns being too tight at 20yds. My preference for hunting is a pattern that is about 10-12" at 20-25yds and 18"-20" at 40yds with very few gaps. I have shot some set ups that shoot the entire pattern in a 10" at 40 and they are not necessarily the best hunting patterns.
You can always go with an o/u and setup a choke/load for close and different choke/load for longer. I was running tight chokes and TSS and missed a bird that was 5-7 yards. Patterned at 10 yards was like a slug
That's exactly what I decided which is why I shoot a Beretta O/U. One barrel set up to do 110/10 @ 40 and the other averages 347/10".
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Yep. I went with a yildiz youth 20. One barrel I shoot a .585 with lead 7 pheasant load. Other is .562 tss 9s
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Quote from: BandedSpur on May 24, 2020, 07:35:42 AM
Quote from: Longshanks on May 23, 2020, 08:21:17 AM
Best to shoot at 20yds and 40yds to pattern. Find the best patterns for your hunting style and shooting ability. Totally agree with some patterns being too tight at 20yds. My preference for hunting is a pattern that is about 10-12" at 20-25yds and 18"-20" at 40yds with very few gaps. I have shot some set ups that shoot the entire pattern in a 10" at 40 and they are not necessarily the best hunting patterns.
Would like to hear more about the set-ups you describe in your last sentence. Not doubting your word, but I have shot a lot of TSS through a lot of chokes and rarely see more than 50% of the total pellets in the 10". It is tough enough to get all the pellets in the 20 - 85-90% is typical. But I agree with you that 100% in 10 would NOT be a good hunting pattern.
Go look in the Remington patterns at some of the Win LB patterns that I turned. Shot 233 in a 9" circle at 40yds. Win LB 3" 5's/ Kicks .655
Also hunt with an Xtrema 2/ Hevi 13 that shoots 330's in a 10 @ 40. Bulk of that pattern if not all is in a 10" @ 30. Set up that I use, but turkeys inside 25-30 have to pick my shot carefully. Easy to miss.
Are you using 3 inch, or 3 1/2 inch? Those are pretty good counts....
Sorry, just saw your Remington patterns were 3 inch. Thanks, sorry I missed it.....
I don't really understand the too tight concern. If you are shooting a well sighted in shotgun, a softball size pattern should be fine. But that is all based on knowing exactly where your gun shoots at each distance.
Here is my 20 at 40 yards:
And here it is at 15. I think that pattern gives me a little miss either way and should be fine as long as I am not wingshooting at 15 steps. I killed a bird this year at 15 steps (or less). He was walking fast, but not running. No problem.
Quote from: g8rvet on June 01, 2020, 08:55:07 PM
I don't really understand the too tight concern. If you are shooting a well sighted in shotgun, a softball size pattern should be fine. But that is all based on knowing exactly where your gun shoots at each distance.
Here is my 20 at 40 yards:
Has some thing to do with shooting at a wild turkey and not a piece of paper. Some times he is not exactly a statue with his neck stuck out saying shoot me. He can make sudden moves with his head and neck and does frequently. Come in walking and then suddenly start walking quickly in one direction when he sees something he doesn't like. There is also the factor that you are sitting at the base of a tree sometimes twisted around shooting off hand or even opposite handed. Factor in low light and limbs that are hard to see right at daylight.
I did a test one time. Rather than shooting the turkey gun off of a dead rest in a comfortable position I had a friend of mine Do a more realistic hunting setup. He was impressing us with his 40yd patterns shooting off a bench and rifle test. We got him to sit completely still at the base of a tree until we said shoot. Let him sit there completely still for about 7 minutes. When he threw up and shot he missed the target by at least a foot at 25 yds.
Also factor the adrenaline that you have going when a loud mouth gobbler comes in gobbling inside 50yds just out of sight and then you get a brief shot at his head as he looks up over a ridge.
Margin for error is your friend in many hunting situations.
Quote from: g8rvet on June 01, 2020, 08:57:00 PM
And here it is at 15. I think that pattern gives me a little miss either way and should be fine as long as I am not wingshooting at 15 steps. I killed a bird this year at 15 steps (or less). He was walking fast, but not running. No problem.
Couple of inches off in either direction and that is a missed turkey.
Throwing a softball at a moving target the size of a baseball is hard. Most of my shots are 25 or under. I missed a few last couple years that were 10 yards or less with tss loads with really tight chokes so I switched to over under (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/7b6128d5bb0cbcdc5098f598e5f58aba.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/3ce0dfabf671ae781d68374119ad9a76.jpg)
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Quote from: wchadw on June 01, 2020, 09:27:53 PM
Throwing a softball at a moving target the size of a baseball is hard. Most of my shots are 25 or under. I missed a few last couple years that were 10 yards or less with tss loads with really tight chokes so I switched to over under (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/7b6128d5bb0cbcdc5098f598e5f58aba.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200602/3ce0dfabf671ae781d68374119ad9a76.jpg)
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Killer hunting patterns there.
Have a BSA Falcon 20g over and under that I am setting up for turkey hunting. Going to Camo it but almost hate to as nice at it looks. Have a Hastings .566 and .578. Was hoping to shoot both but they won't fit in the gun at the same time. Have a Jebs .560 to shoot TSS 9's out of it and may get a Jebs .575 for a more open pattern on the bottom barrel. The Jebs chokes are more slim and will fit in the gun.
Have a Beretta .390 so will use the Hastings chokes there. .578 with TSS 9's should be good for a hunting pattern.
All those hunting situations happen. But the simple fact is if you are open at 20 you will almost always be too open at 40. So I pick tight at 20 and kill him as soon as I am able. Like I said, in my real world hunting situation this year, that pattern did just fine at 15 steps. A miss if you are a few inches off is a miss. The moral to that story is, don't be a few inches off.
All I can tell you is 45 years of turkey hunting the only problems I've ever had shooting turkeys was patterns too tight up close. Guiding that is the problem I see over and over. Occasionally someone will shoot too soon but mainly it's the misses up close with tight patterns. A little margin for error seems to work well.
Shot some good hunting patterns today.
Beretta 390/ Hastings .578.
130's in a 10 @ 40 Fed HW 7's
120's in a 10 @ 30 Hevi 13 6's
TSS through this set up should be serious. Also shot the best 20g lead patterns I have shot with Winchester 1 1/4 5's out of .566 Hastings. Didn't shoot the HTL through the .566. Every shot sent down range today was on with POA/ POI and a dead turkey no doubt. Makes for a nice day on the range. Have a couple of turkey killing combinations that wouldn't hesitate to use. Good to find combinations so my sons can use those shells.
Next time: Jebs .560/ Fed TSS 9's.
Hastings .566/ Fed HW 7's.
Hope that I am not coming across like I am saying you are wrong, only that I don't worry much about it for my gun. When I set my daughter's gun up, I used a factory full and it was perfect at 15, 20 and 30. We had a bird at easy range for me (40), but she held off on the shot. I don't want her first shot to be a miss.
Quote from: g8rvet on June 02, 2020, 04:44:24 PM
Hope that I am not coming across like I am saying you are wrong, only that I don't worry much about it for my gun. When I set my daughter's gun up, I used a factory full and it was perfect at 15, 20 and 30. We had a bird at easy range for me (40), but she held off on the shot. I don't want her first shot to be a miss.
Factory full is excellent for the kids. Wouldn't shoot one at 40yd with a kid either. Some would say I am wasting the HTL shooting it through chokes where it turns numbers on the lower end. But it works for anyone in the family, clients etc and isn't too tight. Will put them down better than lead as well. Did have this gun shooting 170's with HW 7's but it was too tight for my kids and wife and I really had to watch what I was doing. Created POA/POI problems as well. Much prefer a set up where I can shoot double beads with some margin for error. Do a good bit of shooting for fun but also am of the school of finding a way to shoot the shells I already have and not buy more.
Interesting people must think you can't kill a turkey unless you have the tightest pattern they can possibly find. Normally that is hunters new to turkey hunting.
Michael Waddel kills more turkeys than anyone I know and he shoots Hornady lead 5's out of a stock Remington Super Full.
"Michael Waddel kills more turkeys than anyone I know and he shoots Hornady lead 5's out of a stock Remington Super Full."
Then he is definitely shooting his turkeys closer than 40 yds. Talk about your "forgiving" set-ups.
Quote from: BandedSpur on June 03, 2020, 08:46:41 AM
"Michael Waddel kills more turkeys than anyone I know and he shoots Hornady lead 5's out of a stock Remington Super Full."
Then he is definitely shooting his turkeys closer than 40 yds. Talk about your "forgiving" set-ups.
Told me he would never shoot a turkey past 40yds and he knows like most experienced turkey hunters that the way you set up can give you the majority of your shots within 40yds. Aaron Warbritton from the mid west is another example of how to get done. He shoots an old 870 with an HS Strut .665 and Winchester lead 5's. No need for the tight shooting hot rod setups.
The more experienced turkey hunters I have hunted with have tried the new wave stuff and have found what is most productive within 35-40yds.
Been enjoying some of the 20g set ups that I have been able to use in recent years but still open the patterns up a bit for that 30-40yd range.
I've never missed killing a turkey because it was too close. I'll take the tightest pattern I can get everytime.
Quote from: N2TRKYS on June 03, 2020, 10:00:19 AM
I've never missed killing a turkey because it was too close. I'll take the tightest pattern I can get everytime.
Have seen the best miss up close, too far away, and everywhere in between. Shooting at a turkey can take you from feeling like you are the best shot in the world to thinking you can't hit the broadside of a barn. The Wild Turkey does this to a Hunter with no effort what so ever. It's interesting.
Quote from: Longshanks on June 03, 2020, 01:30:06 PM
Quote from: N2TRKYS on June 03, 2020, 10:00:19 AM
I've never missed killing a turkey because it was too close. I'll take the tightest pattern I can get everytime.
Have seen the best miss up close, too far away, and everywhere in between. Shooting at a turkey can take you from feeling like you are the best shot in the world to thinking you can't hit the broadside of a barn. The Wild Turkey does this to a Hunter with no effort what so ever. It's interesting.
Congratulations?
Congrats on never missing, keep turkey hunting with the
tightest pattern you can find and that will change.