My Son will be 8 this spring. Currently he is 4'5" and 88 pounds. I have a youth 20 gauge 1100 turkey special. Will this be to much gun for him? In a few weeks I'm going to let him shoot some low brass shells...
What's your thoughts?
Should I get him a 410 or stick with the 20?
Thanks.
I'd let him shoot the 20 and see how he does with it then decide
At 8 he needs to be shooting a .22 first. From there he could shoot a shotgun but things need to be considered.
For starters you need to know his eye dominance. He needs to shoot w proper eye not proper hand.
Once he's shootings properly a 410 at stationary targets say a clay bird or can on a hill would be fine. Wing shooting a 410 is an expert gun.
Are you looking to let him hunt this year if your state allows it? If so he may or may not be ready. A 20 for an 8 year old may be too much. Take things slow and allow him time. Use inner and outer hearing protection to make gun seem to kick less.
Now shotguns need to fit. Lop should be correct for him. We also need to consider strength of the child. Some kids are weak. In that case most semis are heavier and thus out but they recoil less. Perhaps the child can physically carry a gun n can't stand the recoil.
I know it seems I'm going back n forth but I teach all kinda kids and what you're asking has many variables. Not one person knows your kid like you.
My recommendation might be a .22. Than possibly a .410 at a STATIONARY target.
When he starts wingshooting a .28 is really the most friendly gauge. It's got enough pellets yet won't pound him.
Take it slow w the child. Lots of kids are scared away from guns because of our desires not theirs. Grow em slow.
Myself w we shoot .22s. From there an AR15 than a bull barreled 22-250 to help em get used to noise.
From there a .28 w light reloads. Once there heavier loads are used eventually a 20.ga
Here's another thing. Kids don't need to watch a gun especially a turkey gun patterned. Sight in the gun. Give them LIGHT loads. When hunting give em the turkey load. The adrenaline overload will mask recoil.
Lots of kids are ruined from initial contact. Go easy and never test him
Quote from: Yoteduster on December 14, 2019, 10:57:12 AM
I'd let him shoot the 20 and see how he does with it then decide
Yote excuse me. That's terrible advice. Let me explain. My buddy had twins. First day out they shot 20s. One never shot again. One was so scared I had to bring my younger daughter who was the smallest kid in her class and have her shoot a 28 to prove to the remaining one years later it wouldn't hurt.
He very rarely shoots and only when Nicky pushes him. Never practices and won't even at 18 shoot a 20. Will most kids turn out like that? I'd say many won't but why chance this? Go at the kids pace not ours
A pic of my daughter 3 weeks after she turned 10. I've posted this before but bird was shot w a 20 only after a slow introduction. It what we all want. Success for kids
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If he has no experience with shotgunning. I would go with Bowguys advise. Starting cold with a 20ga may not be a wise decision. I got my 20 for my 10th birthday, which was an upgrade form a .410. I still have it 40 years later. Good Luck!!!
My daughter shot her first turkey with a 410 using 27/32oz loads of TSS. I put a limb saver recoil pad on and there was almost no felt recoil. Plus it's a 40 yard turkey gun all day.
Bowguy, Thanks so much. Great advice. My Son is strong, has played football with pads for several years. Does push ups for fun. I understand that might not relate to shooting.
In a couple of weeks I'll get him behind a 22. I might even get a chance with the low brass target loads. I have heavy shot for the 20 gauge, it has been patterned. I wasn't going to let him shoot the 3" turkey load until we are hunting. As for LOP I hope the Youth model will fit him. We are in MS, and he is really excited about turkey hunting this spring.
Again thanks so much for the awesome advice.
Quote from: Bowguy on December 14, 2019, 11:14:05 AM
At 8 he needs to be shooting a .22 first. From there he could shoot a shotgun but things need to be considered.
For starters you need to know his eye dominance. He needs to shoot w proper eye not proper hand.
Once he's shootings properly a 410 at stationary targets say a clay bird or can on a hill would be fine. Wing shooting a 410 is an expert gun.
Are you looking to let him hunt this year if your state allows it? If so he may or may not be ready. A 20 for an 8 year old may be too much. Take things slow and allow him time. Use inner and outer hearing protection to make gun seem to kick less.
Now shotguns need to fit. Lop should be correct for him. We also need to consider strength of the child. Some kids are weak. In that case most semis are heavier and thus out but they recoil less. Perhaps the child can physically carry a gun n can't stand the recoil.
I know it seems I'm going back n forth but I teach all kinda kids and what you're asking has many variables. Not one person knows your kid like you.
My recommendation might be a .22. Than possibly a .410 at a STATIONARY target.
When he starts wingshooting a .28 is really the most friendly gauge. It's got enough pellets yet won't pound him.
Take it slow w the child. Lots of kids are scared away from guns because of our desires not theirs. Grow em slow.
Myself w we shoot .22s. From there an AR15 than a bull barreled 22-250 to help em get used to noise.
From there a .28 w light reloads. Once there heavier loads are used eventually a 20.ga
Here's another thing. Kids don't need to watch a gun especially a turkey gun patterned. Sight in the gun. Give them LIGHT loads. When hunting give em the turkey load. The adrenaline overload will mask recoil.
Lots of kids are ruined from initial contact. Go easy and never test him
x2 THIS is some of the best advice you could ever receive ... do not rush your son , i don't care how athletic he is , 22, 410 etc first...
Quote from: Bowguy on December 14, 2019, 11:23:41 AM
A pic of my daughter 3 weeks after she turned 10. I've posted this before but bird was shot w a 20 only after a slow introduction. It what we all want. Success for kids
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I agree. Last year was my petite daughters first year and I did very similar things as mentioned by bowguy. I even mounted her 20 gauge to a tripod in our living room and had her try and keep it on the turkeys head that I pulled up on YouTube on our TV. The advice above is solid. Good luck to you both this spring and let me know if you need anything.
Here is a picture of my daughter and her first gobbler last year's(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191214/9d4643371815d6bd03ef76e81f0db962.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191214/32bed76e6c47f020031f75ff3d9025b3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191214/008d1a7d17ef7bb0e60e8a0ab6aa3ae7.jpg)
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Quote from: tomstopper on December 14, 2019, 04:41:06 PM
Quote from: Bowguy on December 14, 2019, 11:23:41 AM
A pic of my daughter 3 weeks after she turned 10. I've posted this before but bird was shot w a 20 only after a slow introduction. It what we all want. Success for kids
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I agree. Last year was my petite daughters first year and I did very similar things as mentioned by bowguy. I even mounted her 20 gauge to a tripod in our living room and had her try and keep it on the turkeys head that I pulled up on YouTube on our TV. The advice above is solid. Good luck to you both this spring and let me know if you need anything.
Here is a picture of my daughter and her first gobbler last year's(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191214/9d4643371815d6bd03ef76e81f0db962.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191214/32bed76e6c47f020031f75ff3d9025b3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191214/008d1a7d17ef7bb0e60e8a0ab6aa3ae7.jpg)
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Not to derail the question but this is often overlooked as well n I think needed mentioning. As Tomstopper said we need to have kids practice the simplest things like moving or holding on target. I always have kids practice. In fact I thought it was something everyone did.
Last year I had my buddy's daughter. I'd watched a monster of a bird whip 3 other long beards before I roosted him.
In the morning I was able to call him to 20 yards. The kid although I had her check her gear in the dark couldn't line things up when the bird was there. She was excited and missed em than missed em again when he re engaged the decoy.
My buddy said they hadn't practiced lining things up from hunt positions. Don't forget this
Your son is more than capable of a 20ga. As mentioned practice is key. As far as his size my kids were half his size and shooting big guns. This is one of my 8 year old's this year shooting a 50 caliber muzzle loader. He is 44lbs and more than capable of shooting the gun. While my kids sit on my lap to shoot. I hold the but of the gun tight to eliminate the kick to some degree. Your son will have no issue with some practice up front. Shoot a big one and have some fun. Hunting with kids is the best.
Quote from: Bowguy on December 14, 2019, 11:14:05 AM
At 8 he needs to be shooting a .22 first. From there he could shoot a shotgun but things need to be considered.
For starters you need to know his eye dominance. He needs to shoot w proper eye not proper hand.
Once he's shootings properly a 410 at stationary targets say a clay bird or can on a hill would be fine. Wing shooting a 410 is an expert gun.
Are you looking to let him hunt this year if your state allows it? If so he may or may not be ready. A 20 for an 8 year old may be too much. Take things slow and allow him time. Use inner and outer hearing protection to make gun seem to kick less.
Now shotguns need to fit. Lop should be correct for him. We also need to consider strength of the child. Some kids are weak. In that case most semis are heavier and thus out but they recoil less. Perhaps the child can physically carry a gun n can't stand the recoil.
I know it seems I'm going back n forth but I teach all kinda kids and what you're asking has many variables. Not one person knows your kid like you.
My recommendation might be a .22. Than possibly a .410 at a STATIONARY target.
When he starts wingshooting a .28 is really the most friendly gauge. It's got enough pellets yet won't pound him.
Take it slow w the child. Lots of kids are scared away from guns because of our desires not theirs. Grow em slow.
Myself w we shoot .22s. From there an AR15 than a bull barreled 22-250 to help em get used to noise.
From there a .28 w light reloads. Once there heavier loads are used eventually a 20.ga
Here's another thing. Kids don't need to watch a gun especially a turkey gun patterned. Sight in the gun. Give them LIGHT loads. When hunting give em the turkey load. The adrenaline overload will mask recoil.
Lots of kids are ruined from initial contact. Go easy and never test him
SPOT ON! Bowguy
Having mentored a number of youth hunters through our states Learn to Hunt Program and Youth Seasons having them start off right is a BIG thing, so many times a lot of this is overlooked. I also do Hunters Ed Classes and cover this there too.
MK M GOBL
I got my daughter the Stevens M301 Turkey in a .410. We shoot the Federal #9 TSS. Added a cheap red dot, and even with the factory choke it puts over 100 in 10 at 40. When she target shoots with the same gun i put in cheap low brass #9's to keep recoil minimal.
The 20 was very intimidating to her.
For shotguns, my son started firing light loads from a lead sled until he was ready to pull it to his shoulder. I think that helped a lot.
Thanks everyone.
I kill birds with a .410 and lead. A 20 would be a better all around gun to grow with. You don't need a max load to kill a turkey so that will reduce recoil.
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My then 5 year old used a 870 20 gauge with a kicklite stock and 1.125oz TSS #10s to shoot his first bird. Used a Caldwell shooting pod to help him hold the gun.
Started shooting ballons with a 22 then moved up to the 20 gauge with bird shot. Set him up with a red dot for plenty of eye relief.
As an update. He shot the .22 like a boss. I guess all the shooting with the BB gun paid off. The Remington 1100 youth turkey model LOP was about 3" to long for him. So if I can't get a custom stock with a shorter LOP. I'll be looking at getting a shotgun with a shorter LOP in either 410 or 20 gauge.
Thanks for the input everyone.
Happy New Year.
I bought my #3 son an old Mossberg 20 GA bolt gun when he started. He used it throughout his yute career, and was deadly with it. It was just enough gun for him. He shot Federal #4 lead loads.
(https://genesis9.angzva.com/wp-content/uploads/wppa/2472.jpg)
My primary turkey gun is a 20 gauge single shot. My son will be almost 7 by the time season gets here so I wanted to get him something simple to operate and functionally similar to my 20. I ended up finding a .410 single shot with the same basic set up as my 20 before season last year and have been letting him shoot it. He's deadly out to about 30yds with TSS, but the killing range is much farther if needed with a nice forgiving pattern. Hoping to let him take his first with it this year if all goes well.
My son got his first bird at age 10 also he was about 70 pounds I bought him a Mossberg 500 20ga and I bought a Simmons Pro Diamond 4x32 Scope with Indian Creek Choke and Federal Heavy Weight #7. He did a lot better using the scope than just the bead
My son shot his first at 12 with an 870 express 20. The gun was too heavy for him to carry and aim without support from his knee. We practiced sitting and dry firing at a decoy. He had swinging and all that practiced. Gun had a red dot. He did not watch me pattern the gun and he only ever shot one low recoil shell. I slipped the turkey load in while hunting and he never felt it. 50 minutes of back numbing strutting at 50 yards and finally a 41 yard shot. This year I got him the Savage 301 turkey .410. he has killed a squirrel with it. He can also carry it himself. He is not afraid of it. I would have started with that if I had to do it again.
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Quote from: kyturkeyhunter4 on January 09, 2020, 11:16:39 AM
My son got his first bird at age 10 also he was about 70 pounds I bought him a Mossberg 500 20ga and I bought a Simmons Pro Diamond 4x32 Scope with Indian Creek Choke and Federal Heavy Weight #7. He did a lot better using the scope than just the bead
Be careful w kids and scopes. Make sure the eye relief is good and they're familiar. One scope eye and they could be hesitant to shoot after that
My daughter uses a Mossberg mini bantum 20 gauge with a red dot (she's petite). May want to check it out. Good luck
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Remington 1187 compact with a Red dot is ideal for young shooters, if your concerned about the automatic some only load one shell for kids, but the advantage of the gas operated system is a lot less recoil for them. I had mine drilled and tapped and then ordered a base from William at Sumtoy and added a Burris FF3.
My youth 20 has a decent punch to it. May let him try dove loads and see how he does.
Star with the .22, you probably know your kids personality and can gauge his response.
Two idiots I know took an 18 year old timid kid out to shoot and gave him a 12 ga with a turkey load, I had to take him shooting several times to get him to try a shotgun again, and we got him a 20ga.
Kid was petrified to shoot anything after that!
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I've not read all the replies, but my oldest started with a pellet gun and then shots few rounds through an old single shot .410. I started them hunting with an 870 Junior instead of the Youth model. I didn't let them shoot heavy loads, always low brass light loads. I did all the pattern wirk. One key is ear protection, the bang has as much potential to scare them as the recoil does (at least with light loads).
In addition, my kids had watched me shoot from the truck with my wife several times. That wasn't really a plan for introduction, but I think it helped. My younger kids had watched my older, so they looked forward for their time.
Some kids are just ready earlier than others, some kids are afraid if nothing, some are more timid and need brought along slowly. Size and strength have some to do with it, but some kids are just fearless regardless of size. My buddy son was a man child from about 8th grade on, talked a big game, but was scared to death when we tried to get him to shoot. It was my buddy's fault. He thought the kid was big, played football, was 13....let's just let him shoot a 30-06. The boy wouldn't even pull the trigger he was so spooked after watching us sight the gun in.
Thanks for the reply's everyone!
I'm looking hard into the Mossberg 510 super mini bantam in 410. It has a changeable LOP from 10" to 12" and 10" is what he needs right now.
I do wish it had a screw in choke system. It only comes in fixed modified.
We'll give it a shot. I'll do the patterning. Only let him shoot the lighter loads. Let me now what TSS load or brand y'all like.
Thanks again
You've received good advice here. I would only add a couple of things (and I may have missed them in other's comments).
1. A .410 single shot has long been a child's first shotgun. I still have the one I got as a youngster, and it kicks more than the Mossberg 500 bantam 20 gauge that I have for my wife and kids. It's lightweight, and just plain kicks. Be aware of things like this.
2. Even with low brass loads, that Mossberg 500 20 ga kicks more than my 7 year old daughter (tall, strong, athletic frame) would appreciate. She hasn't been allowed to pull the trigger on it for that reason.
That being said, my oldest daughter (the 7 year old) is DYING to get to kill her own turkey this year! She's been shooting a 22LR for a couple of years (great advice from BOWGUY...start here), has shot a .223 AR several times, and is a consistent shooter. IF I decide to let her get behind the trigger for a turkey of her own this year, it will either be with a crossbow, or after having proven that she can handle a light bird load from the 20 ga.
Also, IF we go the shotgun route, it will only be AFTER I add weight to the stock, and add something like a Limbsaver recoil pad.
When she hunts with me, she wears Walker electronic earmuffs at all times, unless we are walking. They are around her neck and ready to be put on even then, though. I recommend something like that. Cutting down on sound absolutely makes a difference in perceived recoil.
Well as an update. WE got him the 510 super mini bantam in 410.
It came with 18.5" fixed modified barrel. I've sent the barrel to SumToy to get threaded and one of his chokes. Once we get it back we'll shoot it a bit. Going to order some Apex Ninja in Feb.
Got a Mossy Oak bottom land camo wrap, that's going on soon.
I'll keep it updated.
Quote from: ShootingABN! on January 22, 2020, 12:05:07 AM
Well as an update. WE got him the 510 super mini bantam in 410.
It came with 18.5" fixed modified barrel. I've sent the barrel to SumToy to get threaded and one of his chokes. Once we get it back we'll shoot it a bit. Going to order some Apex Ninja in Feb.
Got a Mossy Oak bottom land camo wrap, that's going on soon.
I'll keep it updated.
I have no doubts that you will be please with William's work. I look forward to seeing what it's capable of doing!
Quote from: Big Jeremy on January 22, 2020, 11:04:25 AM
Quote from: ShootingABN! on January 22, 2020, 12:05:07 AM
Well as an update. WE got him the 510 super mini bantam in 410.
It came with 18.5" fixed modified barrel. I've sent the barrel to SumToy to get threaded and one of his chokes. Once we get it back we'll shoot it a bit. Going to order some Apex Ninja in Feb.
Got a Mossy Oak bottom land camo wrap, that's going on soon.
I'll keep it updated.
I have no doubts that you will be please with William's work. I look forward to seeing what it's capable of doing!
Got the call today. They are finished and will return ship tomorrow. Can't wait... Just gotta wait on Apex new ninja loads to hit.