HELP!! Gun won't Pattern

[Clif Owen]

My hunting partner bought an 870 last year and is trying to find a useable shell and choke tube. So far, he has tried 4 different loads and 3 choke tubes and it just won't pattern at all. Any ideas? I suggested he tries to clean it well but I really don't see how it can help enough to fix this. I believe the absolute best pattern we got was about 20 or 25 shot in a 10" circle at 40 yards.

Is it possible for the barrel to have an issue?? I kinda knew something was up when he shot it the first time to set his sights and got a 12" pattern at 50 feet instead of the shot hitting in a wad.

[BandedSpur]

Good suggestion as to cleaning it well. What chokes and shells have you tried? The surest bet on shells would be H13 7s or Winch Longbeard 6s, 3.5" if it is so chambered, or 3" if it is not.

[Clif Owen]

So far, we have tried a Hevi-shot tube, a Sumtoy and a Tru-Glo. Not sure which ones on those. The shells have been Hevi 13 #6's, Mag Blend and 2 lead loads. One was a Remington load (I think #4) and Winchester 3" #5's.

[davisd9]

What is your definition of unpatternable?  All those chokes and shells you mentioned should at least put 100 in the 10" at 40 except maybe the #4s.

Also, what is his pattern process?  How big of a sheet of paper is he shooting at and when is he drawing his circle?  Before or after he shoots?

[Clif Owen]

Full sheet of newspaper...pattern seemed to be even (no tighter spots) so don't think it matters when you draw it

[ads1]

I kinda knew something was up when he shot it the first time to set his sights and got a 12" pattern at 50 feet instead of the shot hitting in a wad.

I am wondering if you are getting the shot on the paper. As the previous person said, get a large piece of paper and shoot at 10 yards. Then make adjustments to center. Good luck and report back what you find. At 10 yards you should have a hole somewhere.

[mightyjoeyoung]

First off, is the barrel retention nut TIGHT?  I do this on all my turkey guns and do not claim responsibility if you screw this up and damage you gun, nor do claim it will fix your problem but i find MANY hunters simply dont tighten the barrel nut down tight enougb and a sloppy barrel to receiver fit, a sloppy patterning gun makes.  By tight, I mean turned to as hand tight as you can get it, then with the gun empty and chamber open for obvious reasons, place the but of the gun on a nonslip surface and put pressure straight downward on the barrel while hand tightening the nut again as far as it will turn. Then, with a piece of leather or heavy nylon to protect the metal, us a pair of channel locks to give the nut one last click.  THAT is what I call a properly tightened barrel.  I then place witness marks on the nut and barrel ring so that I always retighten to the same pressure. 
Second, is the gun barrel CLEAN?  Clean to the standards that have been accepted here on this site by its very knowledgeable members? If not, I suggest following the guidelines for deep cleaning a barrel in the sticky at the top of this forum. 
Third, you need to determine point of impact (poi) in relation to your point of aim (poa).  Do this by shooting light loads at no more than 15 yards through the chosen turkey choke to give you an idea if you're even hitting where you're aiming the thing.  After that, make any adjustments in your aim or on the sight system (if any) and then CLEAN the barrel again, before running a single turkey load through the gun.  Start at 20 and work OUt to the point you get less than 100 pellets in a 10" circle.  That point is your MAXIMUM range for that load/choke combo and of course the type of shot you're using, be it pb or htl.  Good luck.

[drum817]

First off, is the barrel retention nut TIGHT?  I do this on all my turkey guns and do not claim responsibility if you screw this up and damage you gun, nor do claim it will fix your problem but i find MANY hunters simply dont tighten the barrel nut down tight enougb and a sloppy barrel to receiver fit, a sloppy patterning gun makes.  By tight, I mean turned to as hand tight as you can get it, then with the gun empty and chamber open for obvious reasons, place the but of the gun on a nonslip surface and put pressure straight downward on the barrel while hand tightening the nut again as far as it will turn. Then, with a piece of leather or heavy nylon to protect the metal, us a pair of channel locks to give the nut one last click.  THAT is what I call a properly tightened barrel.  I then place witness marks on the nut and barrel ring so that I always retighten to the same pressure. 
Second, is the gun barrel CLEAN?  Clean to the standards that have been accepted here on this site by its very knowledgeable members? If not, I suggest following the guidelines for deep cleaning a barrel in the sticky at the top of this forum. 
Third, you need to determine point of impact (poi) in relation to your point of aim (poa).  Do this by shooting light loads at no more than 15 yards through the chosen turkey choke to give you an idea if you're even hitting where you're aiming the thing.  After that, make any adjustments in your aim or on the sight system (if any) and then CLEAN the barrel again, before running a single turkey load through the gun.  Start at 20 and work OUt to the point you get less than 100 pellets in a 10" circle.  That point is your MAXIMUM range for that load/choke combo and of course the type of shot you're using, be it pb or htl.  Good luck.

+1 

[northms]

I am wondering if you are getting the shot on the paper. As the previous person said, get a large piece of paper and shoot at 10 yards. Then make adjustments to center. Good luck and report back what you find. At 10 yards you should have a hole somewhere.
[/quote]

^^^This.  Start off at 10 yards and if you don't have the wad knocking a hole somewhere then you have a problem.  That isn't a solution, but at least a starting point.

[captin_hook]

First off, is the barrel retention nut TIGHT?  I do this on all my turkey guns and do not claim responsibility if you screw this up and damage you gun, nor do claim it will fix your problem but i find MANY hunters simply dont tighten the barrel nut down tight enougb and a sloppy barrel to receiver fit, a sloppy patterning gun makes.  By tight, I mean turned to as hand tight as you can get it, then with the gun empty and chamber open for obvious reasons, place the but of the gun on a nonslip surface and put pressure straight downward on the barrel while hand tightening the nut again as far as it will turn. Then, with a piece of leather or heavy nylon to protect the metal, us a pair of channel locks to give the nut one last click.  THAT is what I call a properly tightened barrel.  I then place witness marks on the nut and barrel ring so that I always retighten to the same pressure. 
Second, is the gun barrel CLEAN?  Clean to the standards that have been accepted here on this site by its very knowledgeable members? If not, I suggest following the guidelines for deep cleaning a barrel in the sticky at the top of this forum. 
Third, you need to determine point of impact (poi) in relation to your point of aim (poa).  Do this by shooting light loads at no more than 15 yards through the chosen turkey choke to give you an idea if you're even hitting where you're aiming the thing.  After that, make any adjustments in your aim or on the sight system (if any) and then CLEAN the barrel again, before running a single turkey load through the gun.  Start at 20 and work OUt to the point you get less than 100 pellets in a 10" circle.  That point is your MAXIMUM range for that load/choke combo and of course the type of shot you're using, be it pb or htl.  Good luck.

This^^^. If you've done all of this and it won't pattern, something is definetly wrong. Also, pattern with some cheap low brass until you're dialed in, then use your expensive hunting loads.

[Skeeterbait]

There is something going on here for sure.  I could put a turkey load thru my cylinder bore slug barrel and get more than 25 shot in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards. Clean the barrel and choke thoroughly and install the choke.  Look in the barrel with a light from both ends.  Pay attention to the choke lip where it seats to the rim inside the barrel.  Is there anything that looks out of place or improperly aligned?  Check the fired wads to see of there are any unusual tears or other deformation. 

Like others have said, The gun may be shooting way off and the main part of the pattern going over or beside the paper.  Follow their instructions starting at close range and make sure where the thing is shooting.

Once your main pattern is on paper, shoot at an aiming point, but draw your circle afterwards to incircle your densest part of the pattern before counting.  This way even if your shot was off you get a good count of the pattern the gun actually threw.

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

I doubt the barrel has an issue.  I have only had one shotgun that I couldn't get to shoot and that was a Smith & Wesson 1000.  That gun couldn't kill a squirrel cleanly at 15yds.  Patterns were lousy with the screw in full choke.  I bought that gun brand new.  I took it back and bought a Rem 1100.  Awesome shotgun. 

I will tell you that you need to shoot some good loads.  Since you don't mention what loads you have tried, I will tell you firsthand to try some Hevi-13 either 3" or 3.5" #7's depending on your gun.  Use a good turkey choke from say .655 to .690 and you should see your patterns improve tremendously. 

[ILIKEHEVI-13]

Ok I read you have tried the Hevi-13 #6's and Mag Blend loads and what chokes you have tried.  Get you some Hev-13 #7's and shoot a big target like 35" length and width if you can.  Get back with me.  I would try the Hevi-Shot choke or the Sumtoy with the 7's.

But I have never seen a 870 yet that wouldn't shoot Hevi-13 #6's. 

[Clif Owen]

OK..let's try to go through this again. 1) He says the barrel was clean when he started.
2) At 50 feet or 16 yards, the pattern is about 12" in diameter. I know it was a wad about the size of a silver dollar in my Mossberg...not sure if this means anything or not   3) How big is a full sheet of newspaper? I'm talking about taking a 2 page section and opening it all the way up.

Am I missing something else to check? Or turn that 1187 into a high-dollar trotline weight.

[mightyjoeyoung]

Again.

First off, is the barrel retention nut TIGHT?  I do this on all my turkey guns and do not claim responsibility if you screw this up and damage your gun, nor do claim it will fix your problem but I find MANY hunters simply don't tighten the barrel nut down tight enough and a sloppy barrel to receiver fit, a sloppy patterning gun makes.  By tight, I mean turned to as hand tight as you can get it, then with the gun empty and chamber open for obvious reasons, place the butt of the gun on a non-slip surface and put pressure straight downward on the barrel while hand tightening the nut again as far as it will turn. Then, with a piece of leather or heavy nylon to protect the metal, us a pair of channel locks to give the nut one last click.  THAT is what I call a properly tightened barrel.  I then place witness marks on the nut and barrel ring so that I always retighten to the same pressure. 
Second, is the gun barrel CLEAN?  Clean to the standards that have been accepted here on this site by its very knowledgeable members? If not, I suggest following the guidelines for deep cleaning a barrel in the sticky at the top of this forum. 
Third, you need to determine point of impact (poi) in relation to your point of aim (poa).  Do this by shooting light loads at no more than 15 yards at a LARGE piece of paper, preferably AT LEAST 30" by 30", with a very specific aiming point through the chosen turkey choke to give you an idea if you're even hitting where you're aiming the thing.  After that, make any adjustments in your aim or on the sight system (if any) and then CLEAN the barrel again, before running a single turkey load through the gun.  Start at 20 and work OUT to the point you get less than 100 pellets in a 10" circle.  That point is your MAXIMUM range for that load/choke combo and of course the type of shot you're using, be it pb or htl.  Good luck.